Avoiding Spiritual Burnout and Dark Night of the Soul

reply to post by BlueMule


Yes Brother, of course.

But to bridge the gap..

have you not noticed that when you put your awareness on the
'manipura chakra' if we must use barbaraic terms.. and then
put your awareness on anahata chakra there is a huge gulf
between them? Between the 'selfish' and the beginnings
of the 'cosmic' ?

As our body, so the field. There is in fact a HUGE correlation
between human bodies and the body of the world.. I don't
think much has been said about this.. everyone wants to
talk about the 'upper divine man's body' ---- but never mention
the 'lower divine man's body' --- is there really upper and lower?
No there isn't. It's the field you know... misguiding us.. getting
us to stare at the 'heavens' and to avoid seeing the Earth! To
avoid seeing our own bodies, which are the field of the Earth.

Does not our own 'lower nature' tug at us? Our selfishness? Our
fear? Our uncertainty? Well when it's in us we call it 'us'. And
at best strive to 'overcome it'. But that's a Chinese finger
trap. But if it's the world.. then we aren't allowed to make the
same analogy.. don't you see the misdirection?


Yes, all is one..

but apparent differences exist.

Why call that dualism?

It's not.

Better?

KPB

KellyPrettyBear


In my perspective.. beings boil up from 'nothing'
and return to 'nothing' as required by the larger
life of which we are a part. Enjoy life while you
have it, learn and grow and die.. it's all the
same -- all great fun.

KPB

So you are then nothing, yet you have substance, thoughts, conscience? In the end it appears you deny existence and thus what is this "force" you talk of if we all come from nothing? I learned long ago that our hearts can be easily deceived by emotion and experiences. Ultimately, we shall all know the truth and we will be free.

reply to post by UnifiedSerenity


Thanks for your input.

KPB

Just wanted to say "thanks" again for the efforts toward communication here.

Rereading what you (KPB) and the other experiential seekers have to say is nifty on a very deep, meaningful level where words seldom venture.

I foresee many hours of rumination and hopefully effortless effort ahead for this ripple in the greater ocean trying to perceive itself. Just attempting to express the questions leading to these ideas are mind expanding.

Big smiles and hugs in a non trite manner.

reply to post by Baddogma


You are welcome.

I'd like to clarify one thing which causes various other people
to get cranky.

The whole thing about 'living in the moment' is not intended
to communicate that I think we are of necessity may flies
who live for only one second and then evaporate.

But the 'Chinese finger trap' here, is that most people
pursue religion and spirituality as a result of the desire
to escape physical death.

But if one is trapped in that desire, it warps their perception;
it traps them inside the 'self-making circuitry' and in fact
makes them reincarnate endlessly to suffer endlessly.

On the other hand, if you live while you live.. and die while
you die.. and spring up to live again if that's what Life wants
to happen.. then you are deathless, immortal and free.

My own observation is that everything repeats forever..over
very long cycles of time.. trillions to the trillionth power.

The last realization most humans ever get I'd say.. or any
being ever gets.. is that they are not 'just one' immortal
spirit.. as that too passes away..

They are in fact an emanation of EVERYTHING.

Holding onto the fear of life or death is what traps us
here.

Don't do it.

If you want to be free that is.

KPB

Baddogma
I foresee many hours of rumination and hopefully effortless effort ahead for this ripple in the greater ocean trying to perceive itself. Just attempting to express the questions leading to these ideas are mind expanding.

In what do the ruminations take place?
The ruminations are just waves appearing in (on/as) the ocean that you are.
You are the one ocean waving.

You see the waves but you can never see the ocean - so it gives the impression that there are many things but really it is just waving.
The ocean is just perceiving waves of light.

KellyPrettyBear
reply to post by Baddogma

 

The whole thing about 'living in the moment' is not intended
to communicate that I think we are of necessity may flies
who live for only one second and then evaporate.

It is not about living in the moment - it is realizing that there is only ever what is presently happening - the present appears to be happening - there is no other than what is happening.
But it happens that thoughts and concepts arise and speak of 'other' - other than what is.

Has any other time other than the present ever been seen or experienced?
This is timeless being.

Presence consists of that which is moving (the image of light) and that which is at rest and this is what creates the idea of time.
You are always present yet there is a concept of time which arises from you not moving and appearances changing and moving.

UnifiedSerenity

So you are then nothing, yet you have substance, thoughts, conscience? In the end it appears you deny existence and thus what is this "force" you talk of if we all come from nothing? I learned long ago that our hearts can be easily deceived by emotion and experiences. Ultimately, we shall all know the truth and we will be free.

How can one be set free if the one seeking freedom, is actually the one placing bonds onto itself?

Looking or waiting for truth may very well be it's own trap.

And how can one free, what is already free?

I think the illusions of fear give us that trapped feeling, but we are free imo.

Peace,

RT

reply to post by Itisnowagain


Thanks for your input.

KPB

reply to post by Realtruth


All these mental masturbations about metaphysics; all the arguing;
all the posturing; are in fact the Chinese finger trap.

There is a very narrow path which leads away from all this, and
nearly nobody takes that path, as you need to give up all your
cherished concepts first.

KPB

KellyPrettyBear
reply to post by Realtruth

 

All these mental masturbations about metaphysics; all the arguing;
all the posturing; are in fact the Chinese finger trap.

There is a very narrow path which leads away from all this, and
nearly nobody takes that path, as you need to give up all your
cherished concepts first.

KPB

How did we get here in the first place?

I have always wondered this.

reply to post by Realtruth

How did we get here in the first place?

That's the question now isn't it?

I'm not going to take that question up however;
that one of the few I don't tend to talk about;
no good can come from answering it. That question
is one of the primary Chinese finger traps.

However I do want to say this, and it's not often said.

All religious / spiritual / mystical thoughts and concepts
are traps; we jabberjaw about this and that due to fear
and death and uncertainty.

If we engage in all that, we spin our wheels and go
nowhere. There is not in fact even ONE concept
worth keeping.. once a concept does it's job.. it
must be discarded.

So how then do we follow a 'spiritual path'?

Good question.

The secret to success in any endeavor, not just the
'spiritual' is to make permanent alterations to your
brain, nervous system, body and any other more
'hypothetical parts' which can profitably be altered.

The brain for example has quite a lot of capacity for
Neural Plasticity.

The rhythm of certain important aspects of our nervous
system can be profitably changed.. such as vagus nerve
tone (there are exercises you can do); autonomic nervous
system balance, etc.

There is also a 'mystical organ' so to speak, which can be
constructed in the brain.. if you know how. This is in fact
the major secret behind "kundalini and the so-called third
eye". It's not documented anywhere however; not even in
the old writings.

These modifications to body and brain (and mind) are in fact
the entire purpose of 'real' 'spiritual practice'. None of the
prattle you find on ATS or any other internet site with a
spiritual category or focus, other than a very small amount,
is of the slightest use in any way.

Concepts CAN be usable as the so-called thorn used to remove
a thorn; or a finger pointing at the moon --- but generally
concepts are just prattle.

The things I post on ATS are generally of the type which might
help move one in the general direction of the starting line of
actual spiritual practice..

Ask any genuine 'spiritual teacher' who actually knows something,
and you won't be surprised I hope to hear something similar.

I hope that was helpful.

KPB

reply to post by Realtruth


Who is seeking freedom? Why would the one setting bonds on yourself seek freedom if that is not his job? Maybe he gets mistaken, or maybe he gets bored and wants a little fun? The one that is free is never seeking anything, there is nothing for it to seek, it is free from all desires. Any seeking being done is done by a construct, an agent, a cause, dependent upon a beginning and never giving an end but only passing the torch. Beginning and end, alpha and omega, that is something completely different.

Truth is a body of real things events and facts. Truth arises with other phenomena, it is an emergent property of consciousness. Seeking truth is a trap. But you know, first you have to climb out of the mud, if you're stuck in the rut of the valley, before you can ever hope to sit atop the mountain. So, when you climb a ladder, you grasp a higher rung, and let go of a lower, until there is no more ladder to grasp.

Only thing to fear is fear itself. Big reason for all the constructs, trying to create a safe haven, but for what? For who? We are like a farmer, who keeps yielding spoiled crops, dead crops, and he thinks that from the seeds of the corrupted produce he will yield something pure and wholesome. Throw it all out!

You only hold yourself in bonds because you bend your knee to your mind and other constructs. Stop bending your knee to those that seek continuity of self by devouring others.

YOU are always free, however, you are not free. There is free will and there is no free will. You can get between the feedback loops and make corrections to your course, but there is a guideline in our general direction we take. You are mostly free to be accepting of this or not

KellyPrettyBear

The secret to success in any endeavor, not just the
'spiritual' is to make permanent alterations to your
brain, nervous system, body and any other more
'hypothetical parts' which can profitably be altered.

The brain for example has quite a lot of capacity for
Neural Plasticity.

The rhythm of certain important aspects of our nervous
system can be profitably changed.. such as vagus nerve
tone (there are exercises you can do); autonomic nervous
system balance, etc.

The info is much appreciated.

I am interested in the exercises you speak of. For some reason I know this intuitively, but everything I seem to do doesn't work to balance.

What do you recommend?


Thanks again,

RT

reply to post by preludefanguy

You only hold yourself in bonds because you bend your knee to your mind and other constructs. Stop bending your knee to those that seek continuity of self by devouring others.

Now that is a fine thing to say. Perfectly accurate.

So let me ask you a hard question and see how you field it!

Let's say that Earth WAS in fact a prison planet for mind-erased
souls like some crazy systems proclaim.

Would that be possible in your metaphysics? Would that be fair?

LOL.

Such a beautiful hand grenade.

KPB

reply to post by Realtruth

What do you recommend?

Do you think that I can take responsibility for you?

How would you feel if I gave you 'exercises' and you
blew yourself up?

21st century Earth is pretty hostile to becoming free;
a lot of traditions say that it can't even be done..
that this is the "Kali Yuga" and all we can do is sit
around and wait for the end.

If you were me, what would you advise? How would
you escape the moral quandary?

KPB

reply to post by KellyPrettyBear


yes and no

The devil is dependent on man

We create and keep feeding the beast, and they gladly do our unconscious bidding, it is their job, and they have power over us because we accept, we know no better

The only thing that has power over you is that which is cosmically natural and that which you allow to have power over you, which is natural itself.

The question about it being fair? Looking at it in this way I believe is childish, and a question like that is asked only by one who has not opened his heart fully and accepted natural cosmic law.

Like I said, we are the carriers of the torch in this sate, always receiving it, running with it, and passing it on. It is the nature of things. The beginning and the end, that is, what shall we call it this time? God, true self, whatever. Really its the whole thing isnt it? Two becoming one, and in this unity is found. There cannot be unity without there being two. This is all just natural, and any perceptions of evil or things not being right are one, biased, and two, distortions and contortions of natural law, it itself does not exist, but is dependent on that which does exist.

reply to post by KellyPrettyBear


the question I always ask back now is...

have you suffered enough?

if your bowl is not full to the brim of suffering, if it isnt spilling over with suffering then... waking up or any notions of it will be merely flirtations with the idea

Why do you want to wake up? thats the second one...

reply to post by preludefanguy


Not a bad response.

The thing that trips up people is that if there is only ONE,
then of necessity that ONE is a masochist, as the ONE is
perfectly willing to experience any amount of suffering;
now when 'we' think that 'we' are 'we' then we experience
this suffering.

This is the 'problem with evil'; the absolute gateway and barrier that
bars one from experiencing the larger world as it really is.

Now all this said, being an AIDS baby and dying slowly
in agony does seem to be like 'god' is a total prick.

If even a SINGLE concept is 'unacceptable' on the largest
scale, then one is a prisoner.

And in fact while perfectly acceptable to the ONE
(its happening isn't it?) there is also room for
compassion and there is nothing wrong with working
to 'make things better'.. but it's also perfectly acceptable
to completely fail.

KPB

reply to post by preludefanguy


Yup.

For much of my life I followed a path that few ever follow.. I did
it because I knew it could take me where I wanted to go. It's called
the path of willingly accepted suffering. I accepted not just my own
suffering, but I accepted the suffering of all the world and all the
worlds.. I wanted to accept all suffering, so that I wouldn't be afraid
or avoidant.

This is the most hardcore path possible.

Now I know that "I" never chose this; it was in fact the "larger life"
which flows to make decisions like this.. "we" can only make
relatively minor decisions in comparison.

Of course all that suffering wasn't actually necessary.. there need
not in fact be that much suffering.. but I had no teacher and I wouldn't
take no for an answer.. in that case, only something primal like suffering
can strip all the meat off the bones, then the bones; then the very
concept of meat and bones.

I wouldn't recommend this path to anyone.. but it's always good to keep
in mind the 'true nature' of 'genuine spiritual paths', as distinguished from
the usual painless, self-hypnotic drivel / twaddle.

KPB