Nelson Mandela has died

NavyDoc
...
You can idolize a murderer all you want, but I'm not going to just because celebrities and the MSM tell me to. I'm going to think for myself. The man's past was blood covered--he even admits so in his books. The man's history after being released from prison was not so rosy either. But, he was a leftist terrorist so he is well loved, and the idiots who idolized fellow murderer Che will idolize him, truth and facts being too inconvenient. ...

But you're willing to hate him because right-wing bloggers tell you to? Were you actually part of the history as it played out, in any way or form? Or just watching from the side getting glimpses from what CNN and BBC showed you?

Kali74
reply to post by NavyDoc

 

And do you also call the Revolutionary War an act of terrorism? Because it was. Why is it only 'resisting tyranny' for our forefathers and no one else? No one else is ever allowed to fight back, if they do they are terrorists, marxists, commies, socialists. What a sickening mentality you are displaying in this thread.

It is not a sickening mentality at all. Our FF were not terrorists because they did not kill women and children. They did not rape. They did not put tires around people's necks, fill them with gasoline, and set them alight. The ANC was not "just fighting back" they wanted a Marxist revolution and killed people that did not go along with them, even other Africans and especially the Zulus.

As for a "sickening mentality," I find that statement very hypocritical. What is more sickening? Pointing out a murderer's murder or supporting the murderer?

reply to post by Gemwolf


I know you said you didn't want to get into it but I hope you and in depth.

Once again I see a flood of ignorance wash over this blog, as was expected I guess. Let me be devils advocate, and say it how it is.

Nelson Mandella ordered the deaths of people. This was bad. Winston Churchill ordered the deaths of people, but apparently this was good. I will not deny that his charges of terrorism was just, but so was his cause. He pushed that cause to try to promote a bit of humanity and civility in man-kind. Can't we learn from that? Why focus on the bad? He has inspired people around the world to stand up for good and not to bow down to your leaders if what they are doing is inhumane.

Also, for all the people calling the black south africans "barbarians" or what ever, remember there is always two sides to every story, and no one gets that pissed off, or desperate enough to kill without a reason. Crime is rampant out there, for the black population, the white afrikans sit in bullet proof armoured cars, in fenced off and patrolled beautiful neighbourhoods, while the black population live in mud huts... If the Chinese came over to England and did this, I'm sure their heads would roll too.

EDIT: Not picking on the Chinese by the way, just a random example Peace

Gemwolf

NavyDoc
...
You can idolize a murderer all you want, but I'm not going to just because celebrities and the MSM tell me to. I'm going to think for myself. The man's past was blood covered--he even admits so in his books. The man's history after being released from prison was not so rosy either. But, he was a leftist terrorist so he is well loved, and the idiots who idolized fellow murderer Che will idolize him, truth and facts being too inconvenient. ...

But you're willing to hate him because right-wing bloggers tell you to? Were you actually part of the history as it played out, in any way or form? Or just watching from the side getting glimpses from what CNN and BBC showed you?

Nope. Having spent a lot of time in Africa and talking to people who were there personally, black and white, and having seen what goes on there and various other places in addition to studying the history of these places is where my opinions come from. Sorry, but you missed the mark. Bono and Sting love Mandela so you should too.

Kali74
reply to post by NavyDoc

 

Your propaganda originates and propagates at sites like StormFront fyi. Do a little goddamn digging on your sources before you go spilling their filth all over ATS.

Nonsense. First page of google and none of them were Stormfront or like sites. Or are one of those who calls anyone who disagrees with you a "racist."

yamammasamonkey
Good riddance. Sorry POS.

Thats not very nice!

How did you get so many stars for your post?

Why did you proceed to post such a post?

Did he do anything to you or your family? Do you have relatives in South Africa who have since been kicked out of their homes by blacks?

i want to understand your post!


Mandela was a great man.... what he fought for was something not many would have tried fighting for in South Africa at the time and probably still not today.

reply to post by NavyDoc


With respect - unless you've been there (and are still there) your opinion is meaningless. The fact that you utter nonsense like "Bombing school buses" just supports the fact that you have no idea what you are on about. You refer to his book, but did you even read it? You also completely ignore the facts I've stated with regards to the bombings and the resulting deaths.

I can assure you I'm well aware of what Mandela did. And as I explained in detail in earlier posts: A fight for freedom is a fight worth fighting for. Coin. Two. Sides.

NavyDoc

Kali74
reply to post by NavyDoc

 

And do you also call the Revolutionary War an act of terrorism? Because it was. Why is it only 'resisting tyranny' for our forefathers and no one else? No one else is ever allowed to fight back, if they do they are terrorists, marxists, commies, socialists. What a sickening mentality you are displaying in this thread.

It is not a sickening mentality at all. Our FF were not terrorists because they did not kill women and children. They did not rape. They did not put tires around people's necks, fill them with gasoline, and set them alight. The ANC was not "just fighting back" they wanted a Marxist revolution and killed people that did not go along with them, even other Africans and especially the Zulus.

As for a "sickening mentality," I find that statement very hypocritical. What is more sickening? Pointing out a murderer's murder or supporting the murderer?

Acts of terrorism were certainly carried out on Native American Indians.

the white afrikans sit in bullet proof armoured cars, in fenced off and patrolled beautiful neighbourhoods,

If south Africa was the ray of sunshine the media love paint and have done for the last 20 years they wouldn't be any need for this. Mandela wanted change as well as his followers but lots have taken that change for the last 20 years as meaning ''Get the White man out''. The Western Media don't want to cover it because it would tarnish Mandela and black south Africa which is a BIG NO NO in the media!

yourmaker
Why does it feel like there's not much to celebrate in terms of what he accomplished?

They say he made the world a better place, if that's the case why doesn't it look so?
It looks the same as it ever did, including the idol worship

I would say 'he did his best to make the world a better place or at least a better place for his people in Africa who were being treated like cattle!

i have read Threads on here though where some of those Cattle proceeded to then treat White Africans as such... but you know the saying 'what goes around, comes around'... I guess some had to get their revenge somehow.... dont forget that many Black South Africans lost their Families during those times!

Gemwolf
reply to post by NavyDoc

 

With respect - unless you've been there (and are still there) your opinion is meaningless. The fact that you utter nonsense like "Bombing school buses" just supports the fact that you have no idea what you are on about. You refer to his book, but did you even read it? You also completely ignore the facts I've stated with regards to the bombings and the resulting deaths.

I can assure you I'm well aware of what Mandela did. And as I explained in detail in earlier posts: A fight for freedom is a fight worth fighting for. Coin. Two. Sides.

Nonsense. I know quite a bit about it and I have, as previously stated, been in the region several times. I've read his book and I've read several other books on the subject.

A fight for freedom is worth fighting for, but not at the cost of your own humanity. You don't rape or necktie people to free them. You don't blow them up with landmines to free them. The ANC did not a fight for freedom, they fought to trade one awful system for another.

alldaylong

NavyDoc

Kali74
reply to post by NavyDoc

 

And do you also call the Revolutionary War an act of terrorism? Because it was. Why is it only 'resisting tyranny' for our forefathers and no one else? No one else is ever allowed to fight back, if they do they are terrorists, marxists, commies, socialists. What a sickening mentality you are displaying in this thread.

It is not a sickening mentality at all. Our FF were not terrorists because they did not kill women and children. They did not rape. They did not put tires around people's necks, fill them with gasoline, and set them alight. The ANC was not "just fighting back" they wanted a Marxist revolution and killed people that did not go along with them, even other Africans and especially the Zulus.

As for a "sickening mentality," I find that statement very hypocritical. What is more sickening? Pointing out a murderer's murder or supporting the murderer?

Acts of terrorism were certainly carried out on Native American Indians.

Yes, that's true.

NavyDoc

alldaylong

NavyDoc

Kali74
reply to post by NavyDoc

 

And do you also call the Revolutionary War an act of terrorism? Because it was. Why is it only 'resisting tyranny' for our forefathers and no one else? No one else is ever allowed to fight back, if they do they are terrorists, marxists, commies, socialists. What a sickening mentality you are displaying in this thread.

It is not a sickening mentality at all. Our FF were not terrorists because they did not kill women and children. They did not rape. They did not put tires around people's necks, fill them with gasoline, and set them alight. The ANC was not "just fighting back" they wanted a Marxist revolution and killed people that did not go along with them, even other Africans and especially the Zulus.

As for a "sickening mentality," I find that statement very hypocritical. What is more sickening? Pointing out a murderer's murder or supporting the murderer?

Acts of terrorism were certainly carried out on Native American Indians.

Yes, that's true.

reply to post by NavyDoc

Our FF were not terrorists because they did not kill women and children. They did not rape.

Are you serious right now?

They did not put tires around people's necks, fill them with gasoline, and set them alight.

Neither did Mandela.

The ANC was not "just fighting back" they wanted a Marxist revolution and killed people that did not go along with them, even other Africans and especially the Zulus.

There were things about Marxism that Mandela praised that does not mean he wanted to follow in Stalins footsteps, Stalin did not follow Marxism only used enough of it to gain initial power.

As for a "sickening mentality," I find that statement very hypocritical. What is more sickening? Pointing out a murderer's murder or supporting the murderer?

Resisting tyranny is not murder, it is fighting back against a war waged on you.

Kali74
reply to post by NavyDoc

 

Our FF were not terrorists because they did not kill women and children. They did not rape.

Are you serious right now?

Yes, I am. Our FF did not do the things that the ANC were well known for.

Kali74


Resisting tyranny is not murder, it is fighting back against a war waged on you.

How do you "resist tyranny" by killing innocent men, women, and children?

reply to post by NavyDoc


I'm sorry but I don't see how anyone that has read his book could have that view of the man.

And yes, I'm tempted to probe further by asking what exactly "the region" means... And ask when and why... But that would be going off-topic. And I've been pulled into the thread as I feared I would be. So, I'll just agree to disagree with you.

And seeing that the facts that I've stated several times are being ignored there is simply just no point in trying to state the truth for what it is...

TSOM87

the white afrikans sit in bullet proof armoured cars, in fenced off and patrolled beautiful neighbourhoods,

If south Africa was the ray of sunshine the media love paint and have done for the last 20 years they wouldn't be any need for this. Mandela wanted change as well as his followers but lots have taken that change for the last 20 years as meaning ''Get the White man out''. The Western Media don't want to cover it because it would tarnish Mandela and black south Africa which is a BIG NO NO in the media!

edit on 6-12-2013 by TSOM87 because: iRoyalty i read your post wrong Sorry. I understand what you were saying now.

Before 9/11 this wasn't so, we heard more about atrocities going on in the world. The news was there you just couldn't expect to see it on the evening news. Mandela was adamantly against the poor treatment and violence against whites. When he was released from prison he so easily could have lead the charge of getting white people out of SA, the black people had gained enough power and there was enough anti-white sentiment, Mandela could have been the torch. Instead he talked of forgiveness and healing, a South Africa for everyone. Both blacks and whites in SA twist his words and try to manipulate people to their own cause or need for violence with them. Blacks will say look what they did to him, look how he fought against them... they will look only at what he said and did before he went to prison and not what he said and did when he came out or they will denounce him entirely. Whites still clinging to Apartheid will say he was a commie, a marxist, a terrorist and will credit him with every atrocity committed by a black person.

reply to post by NavyDoc


Ask our forefathers.