Nelson Mandela has died

I mean blowing up a bus full of school children is an horrendous act, but it is acceptable because he suffered under aprtheid.

Could you possibly provide us with a link to a serious article concerning your claim please? (And not a bloggers page if possible!)

Kindest respects

Rodinus

reply to post by Gemwolf


It's openely aknowledged that mandela participated in terrorists acts.

He even aknowledges in his own book that he committed terrorist acts.

All those who say Nelson was a Terrorist seriously need to wake up..... He fought Terror perpetuated by a Racist Government.
Nelson Mandela = Hero.

reply to post by WilsonWilson


Yes. But he didn't blow up buses full of children and making such wild claims to "make a point" is silly. Mandela played a roll in over 50 years of South Africa's history. Although I'm very tempted to open up an in-depth discussion of what exactly happened, I'm not going to be dragged into a discussion where people have no knowledge of a very complex history. Sorry, but reading a Wiki article or watching a Hollywood movie is not good enough ammunition for anyone to enter this battle.

If you want to begin climbing this mountain I strongly suggest you begin by reading "A long walk to freedom". Actually - I dare you to read it. When you're done, please let me know, and I'll gladly continue this discussion.

reply to post by Soloprotocol


So it's ok to bomb innocents if you don't like the government?

Just checkin'.

I dont think i need to read his book to be able to understand your point, thats fine.
As i said EVERY terrorist in the world is someones freedom fighter.
But for me planting bombs to kill civilians is too much.
I didnt like it when the IRA did it, although at least they gave warnings.
I'm not saying you cant mourn this man and praise his works.
However for me, the moment you choose to attack civilians in an act of terrorism, then i lose that respect.
Lets not forget his targets were not just racist horrible white people. He also killed innocent blacks and whites with his bombs.

reply to post by WilsonWilson


Doesn't matter how horrible someone is, bombing them is bad craic.

briocheplease
reply to post by Soloprotocol

 

So it's ok to bomb innocents if you don't like the government?

Just checkin'.

"If you dont like the Government"...??? I think it was about so much more than "not liking a Government"..


If your Government treated you and your Family like the South African Government did to the Native Africans, i'm sure you would just sit back and say..Oh Well. i'll do nothing again..


The Anc was a Product of The white Supremacists, The Bombing Campaign was a Reaction to White Supremacist slaughter of innocent men, woman and children.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing".
^^^^^^That's where Nelson and Steve Beko and the ANC came in.

WilsonWilson
reply to post by Gemwolf

 

It's openely aknowledged that mandela participated in terrorists acts.

From what I can gather, at one point in the early 1960s Mandela lost faith in the power of nonviolence to overcome such an oppressive system, and used his considerable influence to approve of violence for about a year. He did not personally go out and blow up people (I don't think, please provide data if I'm wrong), but likely knew who did and was silent. He then paid for his crimes, was imprisoned first with strict restrictions on his associations and communications, and then finally physically imprisoned for almost three decades.

Then, in the years immediately after his imprisonment, he was able to read and hear about how a nonviolent social movement in the United States organized itself enough to be able to accelerate a national and international dialogue to remove legal segregation within their country. When he saw nonviolence work in America's 1960s Civil Rights Movement, he embraced it once again.

reply to post by Soloprotocol


Two wrongs don't make a right

His and the ANC and MK's legacy lives on for those still in SA

He fought to end apartheid and ended up with reverse apartheid

The country is regressing and will degenerate further I believe now he's gone...but the man was not a saint..his motives may have been good and worthy but his methods far from it. We aren't talkign Mother Teresa or Ghandi here!

reply to post by Soloprotocol


So he protested the slaughter of innocent cicvilians by going out and killing innocent civilians?
makes about as much sense as most terrorists.

reply to post by Aleister


Mandela refused to renounce violent means while in prison, which is part fo the reasons he stayed there so long.
And while he may not have been involved in person in every act of terror, he most definitely knew and signed off on them.
While i undertand it's natural to whitewash certain things when people gain political power, i dont think that should actually effect people on here who know how to go out and find the truth.
Mandela may have gained some insight from the civil rights movements, but from what i can tell he was very into the Communist movement, and was supportive of oppressive communist regimes. And he was very anti american for a very long time.
he said about the terrorists who shot and wounded 5 American congressmen.
"We support the cause of anyone who is fighting for self-determination, and our attitude is the same, no matter who it is. I would be honored to sit on the platform with the four comrades you refer to"
I

reply to post by WilsonWilson

There are probably thousands of Americans who would gladly shoot more than 5 Congressmen at this very moment...
Terror??...go live in Iraq, Syria, Libya, Afghanistan and The Palestine then talk to me about Terror.

I know who the Real Terrorist are in this World.

reply to post by WilsonWilson


I understand what you're saying, and it is a very complex philosophical topic. I'm just saying that you shouldn't make false statements about someone to get your message across.

You could ask yourself the same question about any leader where blood was spilled in struggles... Neither George Bush nor Barack Obama killed anyone. But how many innocent people have been killed under their leadership to bring "democracy" to Iraq and the war on Terrorism? Are they terrorists or are the "terrorists" the terrorists? We can ask the question about any war in history. Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, etc. And should we even begin to delve into the history of the American "fathers of the nation" - and they are generally considered to be heroes?

The point is, what would YOU be willing to do to earn your freedom?

Let's go back to Mandela. For YEARS he tried to get freedom for black people with strikes, marches and non-violent protests... But the government was relentless. He had to witness the destruction of Sophiatown. He had to witness the Sharpeville massacre. After seeing his own people being killed -innocent children - should he have continued with another decade of non-violent protests? When they (Mandela & co) decided they were going to start using violence, he warned the government that things were going to get ugly... But did anything change? Not for almost 30 years...

You see that is why I previously mentioned "The Jewish Barber's speech". The fight for freedom may be a bloody one, but it is a fight worth fighting.

Also on a side note - keep in mind that most of the extreme violence (bombings) where people were killed happened in the mid-80s. Mandela was in jail during that time, and ask yourself - just how much influence do you think he had in those acts?

As some has mentioned - a story has two sides, and history is written by the victors.

And I promised myself I wouldn't get into this...

I have no desire to judge Nelson Mandela. I'm glad his suffering is over and he has transitioned on to his next journey.

But I can't help but get it out of my mind, the story which my husband told me about which took place many years back at his job. He was working for a company in California with a hand full of immigrants from Africa. He said that on his lunch one day, he overheard one of the men talking to another immigrant, who said that on the day Nelson Mandela dies, he'll cry and beg for help that he doesn't curse his soul. The other man asked him why he was saying this and he said, "Because my little brother died in one of his necklaces".

I don't know everything about Nelson, but I do believe history is watered down, and people do not want to see the darker side to what went on. All I can say is, whatever Nelson did, will be between him and his God, and I will leave it to that.

I can't believe that no one is investigating this as a murder!

boncho
Hopefully Twitter doesn't know about this…

Nevermind.

Rumors are spreading on Twitter and other social media sites saying that former South African leader Nelson Mandela, known as “Madiba” to many, has died on Thursday.
…
“No, I haven’t heard anything about that,” his grandson, Mandla Mandela, told IOL, referring to the meeting.

I hope when my grandpa dies I learn about it from Twitter-verse.

edit on 5-12-2013 by boncho because: (no reason given)

I know, right? He may have been told not to comment.

This is on every news channel. No offense but he isn't that important to me. Neil Armstrong should of gotten this kind of coverage, but didn't.

Soloprotocol
reply to post by WilsonWilson

 

I know who the Real Terrorist are in this World.

And this is entirely reliant on your perspective.
I'm sure there were white people who died in his terrorist attacks that also were against the government, i'm also sure his black victims were also against the government.
here in the UK we view the IRA as a terorist organisation but it recived monetary funding from the USA, so obviously those who supported them didnt view them as a terrorist organisation.