Water Fluoridation will NOT kill you.

reply to post by superman2012


Yes from both sides... From third parties...

The Government says Fluoridate because its healthy.
The people consent by not rebelling and causing mayhem.
Because the people trust the Government.

Time passes, the Government changes hands a few times and those generations of Governments have been caught lying time and time again.

Someone comes out and questions Fluoride's health benefits.
Be that information true or false.

Credible sources give out information in both support and rebuttal.

A lot of misinformation is fed in terms of its health benefits both negative and positive.

The people no longer trust their Governments so they don't look to them for an answer... Only a result.
That result is the removal of Fluoride from water.
Why?
Because the Government has not tried to clean the air in a genuine non biased way.
And because even if the fluoride does provide a health benefit, water on its own is not bad for people.
So you may as well remove the point of contention.

Hence... Why NOT to Fluoridate water.

reply to post by phinubian

#3 from that last link

Does fluoride increase the risk of osteosarcoma in young men? This case control study by the New York Department of Health tested this hypothesis by comparing the estimated fluoride intake of 130 osteosarcoma victims with that of an equal number of presumed healthy sex- and age-matched surrogates. The authors report finding little difference, and concluded that fluoride does not increase the risk, and may even be protective.

It says that. The anti-fluoride website took one case study and this is another. There is no conclusive evidence. I didn't use cases like this just for that reason. I wonder why they did....

reply to post by Sovaka


I never said that water on it's own was not bad for people.
I only said that fluoride aids people in dental hygiene and the best way to get this to people that have poor dental hygiene is through the water, as everyone drinks it.
That is why, I believe and the evidence shows, they fluoridate water.

reply to post by superman2012


As you pointed out... Fluoride isn't harmful in small doses.

As phinubian pointed out... How can you account for possible total fluoride consumption to the point of making the fluoridating of water even worth while?

How can you account for all the liquids someone drinks that contains fluoridated water?
How can you account for when someone accidentally ingests something that has a large content of fluoride?

These case studies can't possibly account for every scenario.
So you will never have a clear and concise image of how fluoridation effects people.

Not just because of the above, but because each persons body reacts different to different substances.

While a single person has not ever drank or ate (unintentionally) enough fluoridated product to outright kill them via fluoride poisoning.

How can you so easily dismiss that it hasn't irrevocably harmed someone?

superman2012
reply to post by Sovaka

 

I never said that water on it's own was not bad for people.
I only said that fluoride aids people in dental hygiene and the best way to get this to people that have poor dental hygiene is through the water, as everyone drinks it.
That is why, I believe and the evidence shows, they fluoridate water.

And I never said that you had said water was bad for people.
I simply stated a fact that people know that water isn't bad for them (non fluoride water that is).

You had stated that fluoride in a controlled dose aids people in dental hygiene and that the best delivery method for said people in need is via water.

Then why not simply only fluoridate water supplies in areas that have dental hygiene issues?
Like third world countries?
Why fluoridate water supplies for first world countries that have things like tooth paste and mouth wash and dentists?

reply to post by Sovaka

How can you so easily dismiss that it hasn't irrevocably harmed someone?

I can because there is no proof of properly dosed water fluoridation hurting someone. Not one claim with any merit. Not one scientific case study. Not one single name on any of the anti-fluoride websites.
They would throw the name around unabashedly to gain support for their cause, and it would work. They don't do that, because there isn't one. Not one.

There are foods that contain natural amounts of fluoride. Should those be banned as well?

reply to post by Sovaka

Then why not simply only fluoridate water supplies in areas that have dental hygiene issues? Like third world countries?
Why fluoridate water supplies for first world countries that have things like tooth paste and mouth wash and dentists?

It isn't just third world countries that have this problem.

Not everyone has access to or practices proper dental hygiene in first world countries. In third world countries if you get sick, you die. In first world, if you get sick you get health care whether you can afford it or not. If you can't afford it, who pays for it? That is why they do it here. It is cheaper than paying for poor dental hygiene related hospital stays.

reply to post by superman2012


Oh fks sake... There you go dismissing most of my post again.
You keep doing that buddy and I will report every damn post you make on this subject where you dismiss a bulk of information.

Are you a chemical engineer? A scientist or medical professional with a PHD or MD degree of any kind?
Can you precisely inform the residents of this thread how the chemical Sodium fluoride, Fluorosilicic acid or Sodium fluorosilicate breaks down in a humans digestive system.
And how that in turn effects the human system?

You are talking about a controlled dosage in a water supply only.

Please take into account that only accounts for a percentage of TOTAL fluoride intake.
You have added fluoride intake from drinking soft drinks, juices, coffees... ANY beverage that uses fluoridated tap water.
Then you also have liquid based food stuffs that contain water that was from a fluoridated water source.
Then you also have regular food stuffs that have been made with fluoridated water.
Then you have organic foods grown with water from a fluoridate water source. (On this can I say a plant will adequately filter out fluoride? No)

Then you have products that contain ADDITIONAL fluoride that post a warning on their labels about ingestion.
Things like Toothpaste, Mouth wash, dental hygiene products like teeth whiteners, dental floss.

When you roll all that Fluoride up into one single body and multiply it by the daily intake over a year...
Then multiply that over the amount of years that person lives.

And you honestly want us to believe that the fluoridating of water is NOT bad for us?
Not based on the fact we don't get to decide on this forced medication.
But based on that a single persons diet only consists of one fluoridate product.

Here... You OP falls down... This is why you have people fight tooth an nail against your "information".
Because even you... Despite how unbiased you tried to be.
Despite how much or little research you have done...
You still failed to account for the one element NO ONE can account for.

The HUMAN element.

reply to post by superman2012


Listerine along with Non Floride Toothpaste Minus the Floride in your water will keep your Teeth Healthy for most of ones Life . Drink Beer Or Wine instead of Tap Water . Floride is POISON . Nuff said.........

Ok!

I have read the entire thread from A - Z.

You have some valid points on why fluoride is not as scary as it is made to be. I will even say that you made a convincing case.

However,

" Honey, do you feel like eating pasta tonight?" "Suuuuuuure!" So I quickly boil the fluoridated water, after some of the water has evaporated and the concentration of fluoride has increased, I add the pasta for 15 mins. Letting that pasta soak up that water, till they have expanded and are "Al dante".

Then my wife wants a caesar salad, so I thoroughly wash the romaine lettuce with fluoridated water. The salad was probably grown with fluoridated water not to mention the pesticides and other chemicals to help make money, I mean grow (this is another topic, I agree). Next, I strain the pasta. After that, I add some spaghetti sauce which was made with fluoridated water, with tomatoes that were probably grown with fluoridated water. "Yum! Honey, you make the best pasta ever! Can you poor me a glass of water?" "Suuuuuuure!" Later that night, we both brush our teeth with fluoride and go to bed.

This is one meal, we have three a day if we are blessed in having so. Plus, all the teas and coffee we drink which is boiled water. Also, I am forgetting many things here like the salad dressing, cheese, bread where tap water is probably used.

How much fluoride did my wife and I ingest?
What kind of fluoride is used? Is it the same everywhere? Can we be sure that the bad one will not be used?
How much fluoride is safe again?
Why is the government so adamant about our teeth?
Why are so many countries banning the use of fluoride as of the last 10 years?
Does Israelnot care about its populous' teeth?

Superman, the bad guys went that way! Quick they are getting away!

reply to post by Sovaka

Oh fks sake... There you go dismissing most of my post again. You keep doing that buddy and I will report every damn post you make on this subject where you dismiss a bulk of information.

Ask the questions you want answered then. If you want me to respond to every sentence you write, keep making sulking pouting posts like this one. Go ahead and report me...what will you report me for?

Are you a chemical engineer? A scientist or medical professional with a PHD or MD degree of any kind? Can you precisely inform the residents of this thread how the chemical Sodium fluoride, Fluorosilicic acid or Sodium fluorosilicate breaks down in a humans digestive system. And how that in turn effects the human system?

No I am not. No I can not. The only thing I can do (*whispers* and have done) is give them all available information for them to read and make their own decision. If you want me to hold your hand while you read through my beginning posts let me know. I would love to go to New South Wales! Way better than Saskatchewan Canada!

You are talking about a controlled dosage in a water supply only.

Yes. As stated MANY times.

Please take into account that only accounts for a percentage of TOTAL fluoride intake. You have added fluoride intake from drinking soft drinks, juices, coffees... ANY beverage that uses fluoridated tap water. Then you also have liquid based food stuffs that contain water that was from a fluoridated water source. Then you also have regular food stuffs that have been made with fluoridated water. Then you have organic foods grown with water from a fluoridate water source. (On this can I say a plant will adequately filter out fluoride? No)

Okay. (only responding so you won't whine)

Then you have products that contain ADDITIONAL fluoride that post a warning on their labels about ingestion. Things like Toothpaste, Mouth wash, dental hygiene products like teeth whiteners, dental floss.

Okay. (same reason)

When you roll all that Fluoride up into one single body and multiply it by the daily intake over a year... Then multiply that over the amount of years that person lives.

Is that how it works?
Here is from a fluoride fear site:

All sides agree to the fact that healthy kidneys can eliminate only about 50% of daily fluoride intake. The rest gets absorbed in calcified tissues, like bones and teeth.
The National Academy Of Sciences (NAS) stated in 1977 that, for the average individual, a retention of 2mg/day would result in crippling skeletal fluorosis after 40 years. Considering the above-mentioned intake level, it is likely that skeletal fluorosis already affects a significant portion of the population.

So if kidneys can eliminate 50% of it....and a retention of 2mg/day would result in crippling skeletal fluorosis (after 40 years), that would mean you would have to take in 4mg/day. At a dosage of 0.7 mg/l, how many liters would you have to drink in order to satisfy this "claim". I used " " because I could not find the study. (Answer: 1.5 gallons/day of fluoridated water)

And you honestly want us to believe that the fluoridating of water is NOT bad for us? Not based on the fact we don't get to decide on this forced medication. But based on that a single persons diet only consists of one fluoridate product.

Yes I want (and have shown) that fluoridating water is not bad for you. Based on that. How much water do you drink a day? You might get skeletal fluorosis when you are 500+ years old based on the average American drinking 58 gallons of water a year. So I would guess you are safe!

Here... You OP falls down... This is why you have people fight tooth an nail against your "information". Because even you... Despite how unbiased you tried to be. Despite how much or little research you have done... You still failed to account for the one element NO ONE can account for. The HUMAN element.

Nope. No falling down. Just watching the HUMAN element do what they do best. Fear something and then hold on to that fear for dear life.

Hey supes, in another thread a few days ago you asked for just ONE person who's been damaged by fluoride. I posted the vid I post again below, and I told you you'd find a person in it who HAS been damaged by fluoride.
I kept asking you to watch the vid, but you just kept repeating "Show me one person".
Will you watch it now? or will you just keep repeating the lie until it becomes truth!

In this vid you will hear from scientists, dentists, doctors, and even THE PEOPLE WHO PUT THE POISON IN THE WATER!!!

I think the problem is, you only want to believe YOUR sources of information, so much so that you ridicule any other source.

And by the way supes, the professor in this vid was the opposite to you, because he thought fluoride was good, but then he got his hands on the REAL science and very quickly changed his mind.

ANYONE IN DOUBT SHOULD PLEASE WATCH THIS VID!

reply to post by bitsforbytes

How much fluoride did my wife and I ingest?

Depends how much water you had in the first place, and how much coated around the pasta. At 0.7 mg/l my best guess without knowing the fluoride adhesive qualities of your pasta ( ) is not much.

What kind of fluoride is used? Is it the same everywhere? Can we be sure that the bad one will not be used?

It depends on your town/city. Some are more expensive than others. None are "bad". If they killed people, they wouldn't be allowed to use them.

How much fluoride is safe again?

See my reply before this one.

Why is the government so adamant about our teeth?

It's cheaper to fluoridate the water than to pay for hospital care due to poor dental hygiene. If you are too poor to take care of your teeth, chances are you can't afford health care.

Why are so many countries banning the use of fluoride as of the last 10 years?

People want a say in being medicated. I get that 100%!

Does Israelnot care about its populous' teeth?

I'm sure they do. I wonder what the populations dental hygiene is like though..

Thanks for being civil!

superman2012
reply to post by Wookiep

 

As stated earlier, it is about giving a level of dental care to people that otherwise wouldn't be able to, no matter how little the level of care is.

I appreciate this thread, thanks for making it (OP). I'm split on the fluoride issue, and even more so, after reading this.

What time period are we living in? Who has access to tap water who doesn't have access to toothpaste?? Someone earlier mentioned that someone at that level is more concerned with where their next meal is coming from, and you agreed... who are these imaginary poor people who have homes with running tap water (meaning they pay their water bill) but do not have toothbrush, toothpaste, nor dentist?
They COULD just pass out fluoride pills at the homeless shelters, would save a lot.
I'm guessing that it's probably not very good for us, but not as bad as the fringe would like to believe.
Who's making money off fluoridation? That would explain why it's so ensconced in our public works system, instead of vitamin B or C or other beneficial substances, as others mentioned...

reply to post by VoidHawk


Argh! over 2 hours!? Can you please direct me to where the person is hurt by properly dosed water fluoridation?
Thanks in advance!
Even the name and then I will google it myself!

reply to post by VoidHawk


Hey, thanks for posting that! I was just wondering what I was going to do tonight, then bam! It looks to be high quality, hopefully I'll be smarter about fluoride after watching it.

reply to post by rawheroine

I appreciate your thread, thanks for making it. I'm split on the fluoride issue, and even more so, after reading this.

Thank you for that.

What time period are we living in? Who has access to tap water who doesn't have access to toothpaste??

People on welfare or those that choose to not practice good dental hygiene.

Someone earlier mentioned that someone at that level is more concerned with where their next meal is coming from, and you agreed... who are these imaginary poor people who have homes with running tap water (meaning they pay their water bill) but do not have toothbrush, toothpaste, nor dentist?

People give themselves different priorities. It is their choice to take care of themselves, but they don't.

They COULD just pass out fluoride pills at the homeless shelters, would save a lot.

They could, but ingesting it wouldn't help the teeth, unlike water which would coat the whole mouth.

I'm guessing that it's probably not very good for us, but not as bad as the fringe would like to believe. Who's making money off fluoridation? That would explain why it's so ensconced in our public works system, instead of vitamin B or C or other beneficial substances, as others mentioned...

I agree with you. I would like to see many more studies done, but as of now, I believe it is safe.

reply to post by superman2012


Large companies, such as Aluminium Companies etc. were searching for a place to Dump their waste Fluids and yep, they do use Fluoride. Aluminium helps create Alzheimers Disease, so could you please repeat what you are saying.

I'm sure they do. I wonder what the populations dental hygiene is like though..

reply to post by superman2012


Well, thank you for being civil too! By the way, please visit this

LINK

I know you didn't say fluoride is good, you are kind of saying it with all your refuting though. So the site clearly shows you that tooth decay doesn't increase when countries don't fluoridate. So the whole point of it being good is not even valid according to the data on the site I gave you above.

Did you read the link
Did you read the link the first time I shared it?
Why do you feel so strongly about fluoride?

reply to post by superman2012


I personally drink around 2 liters of liquids per day.
I know my gf drinks around 4 liters a day if she can.
This combines water and juices.

Then there is additional liquid intake from things made with water.
Pasta sauces, pasta, rice, boiling of vegetables et c.
As mentioned, boiling of water condensing fluoride content.

But that is me... because I am one of those irrational fear loving people who steer clear of fluoride as much as possible.

So lets take an average individual shall we?
I wouldn't find it a stretch that your average American would consume near on a gallon of liquid per day.
Then you add in all the other fluoride products.

Therefor you may not have a lethal dose... But the potential is there for them to have debilitating fluoride relating issues in 80 years of their life.

But that isn't to say, that this slow build up over time wouldn't cause other things to go awry in your body.

And for me... Personally... Even an 80 year time frame to be effected by Fluoride is too short a time.
If not for the fact of not knowing what else it is doing to my body in the mean time.

Even if you were to break it down by 50% further... 160 year window... Still... A limit in time of cause of ingestion still outweighs its benefits.
Because you still don't know what other chemical effects it is having on your body.