Stoning adulterers may once again be reinstated in Afghanistan.

sk0rpi0n
You have only shown that you reject many important Old Testament figures. Thats old news.

Another off topic lie from you.
No matter how many times you say it .. it isn't true.

Your own thread shows, with quotes and links and everything, that it is NOT a requirement of Christianity to literally believe in the Old Testament myths and folklore. And the links on that thread show that MOST of Christianity sees the bulk of the Old Testament as myths and folklore.


You muslims lie an awful lot. Wonderful religion - Islam .... (sarcasm)
You can lie all you want as long as it furthers your own agenda.

If a person slips and commits adultery you all pound their head in with a rock for 20 minutes until the person dies ... but then you get to go off and lie and lie and lie and it's okay. Bizarre religion. Pure evil.

Akragon
You look for logic eh.... Alright, what is the logic of throwing stones at a persons face because a book from 2000 years ago says God wants you to do it?

If I may .... 4,000 years ago. Some dude, 4,000 years ago, claimed that God told him to stone people to death if they slipped and committed adultery. There was no proof this was from God but the peasants believed him. And yet, when a 'prophet' (whom the Muslims say speaks for God) comes along 2,000 years later and says 'do not stone people ... be merciful and loving' ... they ignore it. Why? Pure blood lust indoctrination. That's the only reasonable explanation for it. They must want to feel the warm blood and brains of someone they murdered in a rage on their hands ...

reply to post by FlyersFan


lol... damn!

can you say that about "all" muslims though?

Im still waitng for some answers to this...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Akragon
can you say that about "all" muslims though?

These three are presenting themselves as average non-extremist muslims.
But the bloodlust is pretty evident. If that's average ... then ... YIKES!

Im still waitng for some answers to this...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Good luck.
Yep. I"m still waiting for an answer from the same person to this ....
Waiting to see if I should go find a dull knife and get ready for some slicing ...
(sarcasm .. not a threat)

OpinionatedB
No, I didn't say you "hate God" I said you are essentially calling God evil...

FlyersFan
That's a lie. This is your quote from page 5

OpinionatedB
Or - You just hate God.
I am going with the latter.

So you lied .... does that mean you should have your tongue cut out?
According to your version of law, you should stick out your tongue and I
should slowly hack it off with a dull knife ... for about 20 minutes or so.
Sound good to you? No? Didn't think it would.

FlyersFan

logical7
what the muslims want is to just prevent adultery and make a better family centred society.

Um .. no. A civilized court of law can do that. It can be done financially. There is no need
for someone who breaks the marriage contract to have their heads bashed in. Thats extreme
punishment that doesn't fit the 'crime'. There is NO EXCUSE for ANYONE to go and bash another
persons head in with a rock for 20 minutes. NONE. It's uncivilized.

Tell me, do you approve of adultery?

Oh stop it. Don't play passive/aggressive with me. It won't work.
I, and the vast majority of Americans, do not approve of adultery.
That doesn't mean that someone should get their head bashed in with rocks
because they slip up.


Again ... follow what your 'prophet' Jesus said ... 'let him without sin cast the first stone'.
EVERYONE is a sinner. Therefore, NO ONE should be throwing stones.

Romans 3:23 - for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

Isaiah 64:6 We are all infected and impure with sin. When we display our righteous deeds, they are nothing but filthy rags. Like autumn leaves, we wither and fall, and our sins sweep us away like the wind.

1 John 1:8-10 - If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Romans 5:12 - Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned

the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” - Galatians 5:14

so you do basically agree that adultery must have a punishment to discourage it, just it should be economical rather than capital. Thats good enough, so the disagreement between you and God's law is just the intensity of the punishment.
Btw just to clear it, if someone even has to be punished by stoning, its both the man and woman, not just woman, so the image you are trying to depict of a lady being brutally stoned should be modified accordingly. Try showing a couple in love stoned just because they already had a spouse each, that would stir the emotions you try to stir against Islam

back to the topic.
So you have punishment for drug traffickers right? Prison time. Right? Has it stopped drug abuse and related deaths and degradation of society?
On the other hand how minimal is the drug problem in singapore?

A harsh law is more effective and also it has to be implemented very very rarely, so overall it is economical.
I would rather see 10 rapists beheaded every year and women more safer than 90000 women raped every year in USA and 10000 rapists in prison run by taxpayer's money and the only ones profiting are the corporations that help run those prisons.

logical7
so the disagreement between you and God's law is just the intensity of the punishment.

It's not Gods law. If it were, Jesus and Mary would have picked up a rock and bashed in the
head of the woman caught in adultery. They didn't. Therefore, it's not God's law.

if someone even has to be punished by stoning, its both the man and woman,

Doesn't matter if it's a man or a woman. NO ONE should have their head bashed in with rocks
for 20 minutes in a slow painful brutal death simply because they slipped and made a mistake.
EVERYONE makes mistakes. Let a civilized court of law come with the penalty.

Bashing someones head in leaves children without parents. And it takes away the time needed
for a person to repent and change. A soul is lost. Children are parentless. The spouse left
behind ends up in financial difficulties.

Having a court of law hit up those who break the marriage contract with a financial burden
gives the adulterers a chance to live and change ... it gives them a chance to make things
right for the spouse they harmed ... maybe to repent and become a better spouse ...
gives them a chance to contribute to the lives of their children ... gives them a chance to
make amends.

THAT is what Christianity is about .. that is what Jesus was about.

FlyersFan

logical7
so the disagreement between you and God's law is just the intensity of the punishment.

It's not Gods law. If it were, Jesus and Mary would have picked up a rock and bashed in the
head of the woman caught in adultery. They didn't. Therefore, it's not God's law.

if someone even has to be punished by stoning, its both the man and woman,

Doesn't matter if it's a man or a woman. NO ONE should have their head bashed in with rocks
for 20 minutes in a slow painful brutal death simply because they slipped and made a mistake.
EVERYONE makes mistakes. Let a civilized court of law come with the penalty.

Bashing someones head in leaves children without parents. And it takes away the time needed
for a person to repent and change. A soul is lost. Children are parentless. The spouse left
behind ends up in financial difficulties.

Having a court of law hit up those who break the marriage contract with a financial burden
gives the adulterers a chance to live and change ... it gives them a chance to make things
right for the spouse they harmed ... maybe to repent and become a better spouse ...
gives them a chance to contribute to the lives of their children ... gives them a chance to
make amends.

THAT is what Christianity is about .. that is what Jesus was about.

It is God's Law and Jesus Christ pbuh upheld it. He did not say that stoning is wrong, he saved himself from getting arrested.

It would be the same if a right wing christian group corner a muslim and ask him, "Is it true that a muslim should do jihad against anyone who is oppressing and killing your fellow brothers and sisters in faith?"
if he says "yes" then they'l run to authorities and report a man who can be a likely jihadist. If he says "no" then he is islamically wrong.

If Jesus pbuh had allowed the stoning then he would have implemented a jewish law in roman land and got arrested, the same if he would have said that taxes shouldnt be given to the romans as jews dont acknowledge any ruler other than God.

I have also told you that stoning is the last level of defense/deterrent against adultery.

1)muslims know its a sin and so don't do it.
2) there is no extreme intermingling of sexes in sexually charged atmosphere and free flowing alcohol to make married people waver.
3)the muslim society is much close knit and its not easy to go unoticed.
4) the laws are harsh.


You are right in saying that its a brutal law.
However its better to have a brutal law and not have to implement it ever(or very very rarely) and yet succeed in establishing an adultery free society than to have a mild law which just is aimed at punishing and reforming the one who had already comitted a crime and it does not succeed as effectively in changing the society.

Tell me what would you choose?
A few adulterers being stoned each year or thousands of dysfunctional families, thousands of children suffering and blaming themselves for seperation of their parents etc

btw kids dont go parentless even if the adulterer parent is punished as there is other parent, it would be the same as they got seperated and the non adulterer parent got custody of kids.

You think stoning is harsh? How about 5 years of prison time? Would you agree for that?

logical7
It is God's Law and Jesus Christ pbuh upheld it.

No it's not God's law and no Jesus didn't uphold it. He issued a new law .. those without sin cast the first stone. Since no one is sinless .. no one should stone to death anyone else.

I have also told you that stoning is the last level of defense/deterrent against adultery.

And I have told you that NO ONE should be stoned ... ever ... first choice or last choice or anything inb etween. It's uncivilized and barbaric.

Tell me what would you choose? A few adulterers being stoned each year or thousands of dysfunctional families, thousands of children suffering and blaming themselves for seperation of their parents etc

Tell me what would you choose? Acting worse than an animal and bashing in the head of a human being with a rock for 20 minutes so they suffer and die cruelly ... and thus cut off the possibility of that person saving their soul through repentance ... and cut off the person providing emotional and financial support to the family he/she has wronged? OR ... Doing what Jesus said - giving the person a chance to repent, a chance to put the family back together; and if the family can't be together then the person provides financial and emotional support for the family and the children.

I know .. you'd choose the blood and bashed brains on your hands route instead of the common sense civilized route, right? Yeah ... thought so.


Here in the USA the adulterer is required to pay financial support to the spouse and children. Also, the person who the adulterer had relations with can be SUED by the spouse for what is called 'alienation of affection'.

If my husband had an affair he would owe me spousal support and child support. He would be required by law to take care of the family. AND I could sue the woman he had the affair with and she's have to help support the family financially. This would be MUCH more helpful for me than throwing them in prison or bashing their heads in with rocks. Death or prison for them would not be financially helpful and my daughter wouldn't see their father. With my husband and his 'girlfriend' alive and working, I'd get badly needed financial support from both of them - which would be a burden on them .. big punishment - and my daughter would be better off. Also - my husband and his 'girlfriend' would have time to repent and save their souls. And THAT is extremely important.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Good Gawd...this thread reminds me of the movie Year One; where Cain kills Abel.

*facepalm* I have the scene cued up on youtube if anyone wants to see it. It's a bit, erm, "violent" to just post. Abel's head gets bashed in by a rock in Cain's hand.
Brutal. Obviously barbaric, and stupid. That's all I have to say here.

I will never understand how brutal tortuous death is appropriate - either by people on other people - or by "God" in some fiery hell.

Both of them: pathetically barbaric and unnecessary as "incentives" for people to behave well.

reply to post by logical7

1) muslims know its a sin and so don't do it.

Atheists know it will profoundly hurt the person who loves them, and so don't do it. Non-muslims know that it is painful for the person they've betrayed, and so don't do it. Seeing the agony and pain and tears and anger and horror on the face of someone whose heart you've broken by betrayal - if one has any compassion at all - is punishment enough. It doesn't need "God's" disapproval to be wrong.


Only a psychopath would commit adultery and not feel any remorse for it when the betrayed spouse responds with pain and misery. Likewise, only a psychopath would toss people in hell and let them burn for eternity with their skin returning and fully conscious to endure the flames forever.

It's evil. Barbaric and evil.

reply to post by wildtimes

But I actually wanted to have a discussion, specifically about the religious aspect since this is a religious issue.

My question is, if both these books call for the death penalty for, in this case, adultery, why is it that the Moslems are the only ones who actually follow or want to follow these "laws"?

Those quotes are from the OP.

You don't really qualify since you aren't a christian, you don't believe in those books to begin with... The question was why don't Jews and Christians follow the teachings in their own books, essentially.

You aren't going to follow anything you don't believe in, so it is little wonder that you think it is wrong.

reply to post by FlyersFan


No, I did not lie. Perhaps reading comprehension is not your strong suit.

First sentence I stated was fact, you are essentially saying that God is evil if you believe in the Bible yet think God's laws are evil. That is a fact.

Second was what one could surmise from these statements about God's law being evil you keep repeating. A conclusion one could draw from your words are not fact.. but conclusions.... therefore, I never said, You hate God.

It is always best to read thoroughly what people say.... and then perhaps even re-read it, before you decide to call me a liar, which you did speak as if it is some kind of fact.

I am finished with this insanity. Hate the Bible and the law God made all you want. Have a nice time.

reply to post by OpinionatedB


I guess so. I see both Christian and Muslim thought as, erm, not worthy. I was raised as a Christian, though. And there's no "undoing" the early indoctrination I got.

Now, I've no idea if you were born into Islam, or adopted it later in life. But it's evident that you have suffered and had to make some very difficult decisions.

So, yeah, I'm an "Abrahamic Apostate", I guess. I fully acknowledge that. But I am not an atheist, either.

So, does that mean - as far as you're concerned - that I don't "qualify" to make statements regarding what is best for mankind's well-being? I don't think it means that, but...that's just my opinion.

I see lots of pain and suffering stemming from the Abrahamic faiths since time immemorial; and since there ARE alternatives to seeing them as "truth" - and those 'alternatives' make more logical and HUMANE sense to me - I choose to put the "Abrahamic menu" into the archived Ancient Recipes for Humanity's Best Well-being and Contentment: Failed file.

(It's in the janitor's closet; to the right, on the bottom shelf. Might be buried under a bunch of other stuff though... Watch out for brown recluse spiders! )

reply to post by OpinionatedB

You aren't going to follow anything you don't believe in, so it is little wonder that you think it is wrong.

That I think stoning people to death for adultery is wrong? It's WRONG without ANY of those books!!

Those "books" seem to be keeping people from seeing the light, OpB. They seem to be stagnant, dead ponds which are 'abrogated' (if you will) by several centuries worth of thought on the matter.

Adultery is hurtful. It is "bad." Period. The only "qualification" one needs to know that, is

A) to have endured the pain of either inflicting it upon someone who loves you, or
B) suffering the betrayal as the scorned lover; or
C) even simply IMAGINED the feelings that would arise.

NOT "imagined the flames of hell" - no. Imagining how it would FEEL to be either the cur or the betrayed. No "threat of hell" is necessary for a truly compassionate, loving person.

It does bother me, though, that Islam allows for "polygamy", which really is the same as "adultery" - and even worse, is essentially "solicitation". Any woman who would allow her spouse to have 3 other "Kept Women" on the side, is either culturally indoctrinated to deny her jealousy (even SHAMED for feeling jealous!) or afraid.

That is not love. That is 'possession', and it's a double standard.

Now, if women were allowed to have multiple husbands (basically an "open marriage") - that's a different thing; both parties give consent that it is agreeable (not legal; agreeable) to have multiple partners.

So tell me: do they? Can a Muslimah refuse to allow her husband to take another wife? As simply as she can refuse to allow a bottle of beer into the house?

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


You totally ignored my post to you.


1. No Christian or Jewish government or country supports the punishment of death by stoning. Islam is alone is the dark ages regarding this edict.

2. No matter who supports death by stoning, I'm telling you it is counter to Love, Compassion, Mercy, and it is outdated and wrong.

3. The verses of stoning were omitted from the Qur'an, one small proof of the corruption of the Qur'an.

OpinionatedB
No, I did not lie. Perhaps reading comprehension is not your strong suit.

YOU LIED TWICE. You owe me an apology. It's all there ... black and white.
And now you owe me yet another apology for a third lie .... claiming that you didn't lie.
And another one for slandering me, yet again, by saying I don't know how to read.

Tell lie after lie and then run away and refuse to admit it when the evidence proves the lies.

Here is the quote from page 5 ....

OpinionatedB
Or - You just hate God.
I am going with the latter.

Here is your denial of that quote of yours ...

OpinionatedB
No, I didn't say you "hate God" I said you are essentially calling God evil...

There's the evidence. You can't run from it.

From the posts by the three muslims on this thread we've learned that they can lie and then run away when proof of the lies are given ... and they have no problem with picking up a rock and bashing someones brains in with it, slowly, for 20 minutes. Lovely .. this is what Islam teaches ??? NO THANKS! It's EVIL.

OpinionatedB
I am finished with this insanity.

The only insanity is the fact that you'd pick up a rock and bash someones brains in with it ... slowly and painfully ... for at least 20 minutes as prescribed by the barbaric law. And insanity is you thinking this makes God happy. And insanity is that your prophet Jesus said DO NOT DO IT but you would do it anyways.

You muslims have no idea who Jesus is. You've totally missed the boat.
Jesus is mercy incarnate. Love. Forgiveness.
And that is who you are supposed to try to be like.
Bashing peoples heads in with rocks is NOT behavior Jesus or Mary engaged in.
You should think long and hard about that next time you want to know more about Jesus.

Hate the Bible and the law God made all you want.

1 - STRAWMAN deflection on your part.
2 - Stoning a person to death IS NOT GOD'S LAW. If it were, Jesus would have done it. He didn't.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Sick isn't it.
What If those two people were forced into marriage and then one fell in love with another, got found out and then stoned to death.
Isn't Islam great eh? forcing people to do something they don't want and If they find love they will get stoned to death.
Pips the post on the "most sick twisted religion" prize.
Good job in 3 or 4 generations it will be gone and or outlawed as a crime against humanity.

reply to post by logical7


You know, it is so wrong when you Muslims keep saying pbuh when referring to Jesus. Out of respect for the Christians, if you want respect to be shown back to you, then stop this maddening disrespect for the very one you claim you do respect.

It is so annoying when you do it, because every time you do it, you deny the death, burial, resurrection and ascension of Jesus Christ and the promise of His return. Now your Mohammed, you can cry peace be upon him all that you want, Mohammed has gone to hell and there is no peace that can ever be upon him now.

But if you want respect, then respect our Jesus Christ and stop denying the very one you claim to believe. Jesus is alive, sitting at the right hand of God and is coming back. Could Mohammed ever claim to get to sit at the right hand of God? Nope, never, it would never, never, never be possible because Mohammed broke the laws of God. Allah cut his aorta after Mohammed said that if he says anything wrong about Allah, then let Allah cut his aorta. Then at his death still cried out to Allah to forgive him, after claiming Allah had already forgiven all of his sins.

Do you see the conundrum of Mohammed? If he was forgiven, that Allah had forgiven him of past and future sins, then why the need to cry out for forgiveness? That means he wasn't forgiven and that he had called on a god that does not exist, a god that was an idol that he placed the symbol on top of his ka'aba.

If Mohammed cried out for forgiveness at his death, that he said Allah would cut his aorta for speaking falsely, then Mohammed died as a kufar.

So go ahead, tell us all how Mohammed died. Are you willing to tell us all what happened? I can and will, but I am waiting to see if you will. He asked for it and got it, he died as a kufar because he spoke falsely. But you think you are so clever by trying to throw in "Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani".

When God spoke out of heaven for John the Baptist, Peter, James and John to hear "This is MY beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased, hear ye Him" means that God was well pleased with His Son and gave the command to hear Jesus and no one else. Do you get how Mohammed was not only kufar about Allah, but the very God that he claimed to be the same?

So stop saying pbuh about Jesus, because Jesus ain't dead. Mohammed is dead, he died kufar and that kufar is who you are told to follow. Now let's see how you wrangle and twist to hold up your shahada that is completely false. Allah was a stone idol that Mohammed did bow down to before his little temper tantrum in the Zoroastrian fire temple, because that stone idol divined that Mohammed was a foreigner when he was a baby. Are you willing to keep witnessing that there is no god but Allah? The name of our God is Yaweh, Adonai, El Elyon. The Lord God Almighty Yaweh.

Will you be willing to witness there is no god but Yaweh? Mohammed wasn't Yaweh's messenger, so then you people should stop saying you believe in the prophets of Yaweh, because if you did believe in the prophets of Yaweh, then according to those prophets, Mohammed would have been stoned for being a false prophet. That's the Book, the Torah, the Bible, that you claim is true. So if it is true, then Mohammed was not only kufar, but an idolater. And not only an idolater, a blasphemer.

The first commandment is "Thou shalt have NO other gods before ME". When you say there is no god but Allah, as Mohammed did, then you have another god before Yaweh. That means you and Mohammed break the first commandment.

Second commandment, no idols. Mohammed DID bow down to an idol. And when you down the list of commandments,

Thou shalt remember the Sabbath and keep it holy. Mohammed changed the Sabbath and didn't keep it holy. You are breaking it also.

Thou shalt not kill, Mohammed broke it.

Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor..Mohammed broke that in order to kill people who disagreed with him.

Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife or anything that belongs to thy neighbor. Mohammed did that very thing.

Tell me then, with all these breaking of the commandments of Yaweh, how does Mohammed stand before God? He can't and didn't.

sk0rpi0n

When was the last time you saw a Christian turn the other cheek after being slapped?

I have.

After the second slap, however, I had run out of cheeks to turn.