Stoning adulterers may once again be reinstated in Afghanistan.

reply to post by FlyersFan

Again ... LIAR ... dead wrong. Your own thread showed that. And I most certainly WILL bring other Christians into the conversation. YOU claimed that they would all say that they literally believe in Adam and Eve or Noah, etc. The facts show otherwise.

huh? My own thread showed that you don't believe in certain major OT figures. Hardly surprising as it is something you've declared yourself on so many other threads, including your own.

Also, most Christians believe in Adam, Eve, Noah and respect Abraham, Moses and any other prophet that you insult.

So go ahead, if you know of a single mainstream church that shares your own beliefs on Noah, Abraham, Moses, post it here. (no, the internet church of flyersfan doesn't count) You will find that you are all by yourself on this matter

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

Your own thread showed that Christians DO NOT HAVE TO believe in the Old Testament myths as being literal. And your own thread showed that majority of Christianity DOES NOT TAKE THE OLD TESTAMENT LITERALLY.

Your deflections are off topic. As usual.

Care to actually get on topic and address how you can possibly support this kind of murder?

National Post - Anatomy of a Stoning

Civil LIberties - Death by Stoning

The fact that you would tie up a person and bury them to their chest ... and then pick up rocks and bash their head in for 20 minutes ... that is a frightening admission on your part. Pretty dark and bloodthirsty. Un-evolved. And yet ... you proudly proclaim this about yourself and you think it's a God driven and a holy thing to do.

WOW. Just WOW.

reply to post by FlyersFan

And Jesus, being from God and being a 'prophet' according to you, would do what God wants.
And He CLEARLY showed very clearly that God doesn't want people stoning others to death.

Jesus said to do and observe as the Pharisees say.

The Pharisees were big on stoning.

And so if you had lived back then, you, as a Christian (hypothetically speaking that is)... would have had to do and observe as the Pharisees told you.

Or at least, explain why Jesus wanted you to "do and observe" as the Pharisees tell you.

reply to post by FlyersFan

Your own thread showed that Christians DO NOT HAVE TO believe in the Old Testament myths as being literal.

My own thread showed me that YOU don't believe in the OT. That is something I have known, so its no big deal.

Everyday, I keep seeing Christians here and elsewhere, accept the Bible from Genesis to Revelation. So it is YOU who would be dismissed as a false Christian.

sk0rpi0n
Jesus said to do and observe as the Pharisees say ..

... IF YOU ARE WITHOUT SIN. You keep leaving that part off. Probably because if you admit that Jesus didn't want people to be stoned to death, then you'd have to admit your own Muslim indoctrinations are wrong. ETA - funny how Jesus Himself, who according to you is a prophet directly from God, didn't follow what the Pharisees said to do. NO STONING.

sk0rpi0n
Everyday, I keep seeing Christians here and elsewhere, accept the Bible from Genesis to Revelation. So it is YOU who would be dismissed as a false Christian.

I can't tell if you are thick headed or just can't help telling lies ....
Your own thread shows that the vast majority of Christianity doesn't take the OT literally.
The fundamentalists who take the OT literally are a minority.
Your continued attempts to somehow insult me ... epic failure.

GET ON TOPIC .... and address how you can possibly support this kind of murder?

National Post - Anatomy of a Stoning

Civil LIberties - Death by Stoning

The fact that you would tie up a person and bury them to their chest ... and then pick up rocks and bash their head in for 20 minutes ... that is a frightening admission on your part. Pretty dark and bloodthirsty. Un-evolved. And yet ... you proudly proclaim this about yourself and you think it's a God driven and a holy thing to do.

sk0rpi0n
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

Your own thread showed that Christians DO NOT HAVE TO believe in the Old Testament myths as being literal.

My own thread showed me that YOU don't believe in the OT. That is something I have known, so its no big deal.

Everyday, I keep seeing Christians here and elsewhere, accept the Bible from Genesis to Revelation. So it is YOU who would be dismissed as a false Christian.

Uhm, can you show this Christian where the Bible commands us to believe that the OT persons were real? The fact that I believe Moses was real comes from the descent of his lineage in that he was descended from Levi. And therefore, I believe Levi was real and so was Jacob and Isaac and Abraham. But Abraham comes from a real known place, Ur of the Chaldees, but everything before Abraham does not have to be accepted as literal, because the stories of Adam and Eve are older than the Hebrew Bible. The flood story is also old, found everywhere.

What you might not understand is that the flood is the demarcation line between legend and literal. While there were legends before it was written in the Hebrew Bible, you have to ask where they got it from. Only the Qu'ran says Adam was a prophet, so what makes this a silly argument that was a mistake on Mohammed's part, the word Adam had never meant just a man with a proper name. Adam is adamu, which simply means man. When you read the Genesis account, it says "And God placed "THE MAN" in the garden.

Understand that little point, "The MAN" is not a proper name, Adam simply became a proper name later, that does not mean that Adam was the name of the man. Adamu means mankind in the Hebrew. So Mohammed made a mistake by not understanding the very Torah he claimed to believe in and preach from. But he never preached from the Torah, because he made too many mistakes.

But if we believe in Mohammed's version, then Adam was the proper name of the man and was 90' tall. That's what you believe. If Mohammed had not been playing around with legends, then he might have known that adamu simply meant mankind.

And then Mohammed tells fascinating stories about Adam not only being 90' tall and a prophet at that, does not ever show one prophecy of Adam. Where are the prophecies of Adam? There are absolutely none. And then Mohammed goes on further by saying he was given the seal of prophethood between the time when Adam was lying in the dust and just before the breath of life was put into him. We had this discussion before, which you ducked out of.

Because Mohammed was retelling about legends, made new legends about the Bible and none of those legends are supported by the Torah or the Hebrew. Therefore, Adam was not in heaven when Mohammed was taken there. Adam is adamu, mankind. But he made the same mistake you are, not understanding the difference in legend and history.

And why are demanding that Christians must believe in Adam as you do in order to be Christian? But I may ask again, show me any prophetic message from Adam. Can you do that?

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

For someone who makes a fuss about people putting words into your mouth (even through an accidental misquote) you seem to have no qualms doing the same.

Oh, bull#.

I asked you a question, for clarification. A QUESTION. I did not say "sk0rpion says this."
Asking questions for clarification is a skill in communication. You might try it, instead of constantly deflecting the topics and posts by insulting others.

But I doubt you will. You don't show any growth at all in that regard.
Just the same-o-same-o, every time. Trying to show Islam as something pure - not by example, nor by explanation that is coherent - but by DENIGRATING and pointing out flaws in OTHERS.

FlyersFan

sk0rpi0n
Everyday, I keep seeing Christians here and elsewhere, accept the Bible from Genesis to Revelation. So it is YOU who would be dismissed as a false Christian.

I can't tell if you are thick headed or just can't help telling lies ....
Your own thread shows that the vast majority of Christianity doesn't take the OT literally.
The fundamentalists who take the OT literally are a minority.
Your continued attempts to somehow insult me ... epic failure.

GET ON TOPIC .... and address how you can possibly support this kind of murder?

National Post - Anatomy of a Stoning

Civil LIberties - Death by Stoning

The fact that you would tie up a person and bury them to their chest ... and then pick up rocks and bash their head in for 20 minutes ... that is a frightening admission on your part. Pretty dark and bloodthirsty. Un-evolved. And yet ... you proudly proclaim this about yourself and you think it's a God driven and a holy thing to do.

edit on 12/5/2013 by FlyersFan because: (no reason given)

FlyersFan

You have to understand their mentality. For them to be Muslim means that they have to accept Mohammed as the messenger of Allah and even when presented with the truths that show Mohammed was false, they are under strict orders to believe Mohammed or else. That "or else" means that even if they don't believe it, they have to say they do because they will be stoned to death also for becoming kufar.

Skorpion knows this is true. But Skorpion will never tell you the truth and neither will Skorpion allow anyone to know when Skorpion does not believe. Their brainwashing includes abjective fear from every Muslim around them, to the point they must commit taqqiyah. They know that taqqiyah means lying to defend the faith of Islam. What you are experiencing is a text jihad from Skorpion who must commit taqqiyah, even toward himself, because the faith of Islam is enforced by fear.

Even when they know Mohammed was false, they are not permitted to do so. That's why I have heard many Muslims say "Even if Mohammed was wrong, I still have to have faith". Mohammed was a false as the day is long, they know this, you know this and I know this, but you and I aren't living in fear when we disagree with things from the Bible, not like Muslims are when presented with the falsehoods in the Qu'ran. They live with "believe it or else".

I hope you understand they live with mob mentality, they all have to enforce their mob mentality onto each other because they are afraid of each other.

Their shahada says "I witness that there is no god but Allah", the problem with that, is that there is absolutely no way to witness that claim. And then they have to say "And Mohammed is his messenger". How can they witness that Mohammed was a messenger of Allah? They simply cannot, even by the very Qu'ran, because they know deeply that Mohammed was not a messenger.

But for them, it is a matter of life or death to keep committing taqqiyah, so they do, even toward the very Qu'ran they say they believe in. When Aisha was presented with the truth about Maryam, the mother of Jesus, not being the sister of Harun, she had a breakdown, it is recorded in the Hadiths. But in order to justify the chronology not being correct, commit taqqiyah again. It is mob mentality, and the only reason Skorpion would admit to agreeing to stoning people, is his own fear of being stoned for being kufar.

But you and I must keep showing the Qu'ran as false, there are Muslims who are coming out from under the lies and are tired of having to keep lying to justify a false religion. The problem is, they have to hide or be killed.

WarminIndy
You have to understand their mentality.

The mentality of those who are in favor of stoning people to death ... they would tie up a person and bury the victim up to the chest in sand ... and then pick up rocks and bash the victims head in for 'at least' 20 minutes ... that's dark and bloodthirsty. Un-evolved.

And then those same 'holy people' turn around and say that I 'don't love God' because I"m against bashing a persons head in with a rock for 20 minutes ... that's just OUTRAGEOUS bull crap.

THIS is the information on stoning a person to death.

National Post - Anatomy of a Stoning

Civil LIberties - Death by Stoning

Anyone who would support that is a frightening person.
They should be locked up for the safety of the rest of the planet.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

And so if you had lived back then......

Exactly! Emphasis being on "back then".

Today, there are no "Christian" countries, nations, or governments that endorse stoning as lawful punishment. For crying out-loud, even the Hebrew/Israelite/Jews of the modern 'State of Israel' do not endorse stoning as lawful punishment anymore. So quite frankly, the Islamic culture is alone and behind the times on the edict of stoning.

For the sake of discussion; If Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad supported death by stoning for adulterers,... I'm here today to tell you that I do not agree with it no matter who supports it. We, as a collective mankind, has progressed through the ages to now realize the power of compassion, love, forgiveness, mercy, understanding, and non-violence.







What did Allah say about stoning?

No one knows, because a plethora of verses in the chapter about stoning were left out of the Qur'an by the commissions of both Abu Bakr (Islam's First Successor), and later Uthman (Islam's Third Successor).

However, in order to clear his conscious, Umar (Islam's Second Successor) made a public pronouncement that the verses were left out of the Qur'an.

Today, the verses of stoning are considered Naskh al-tilawa duna al-hukm (Words Removed, Ruling Stays): The verse is removed from the Qur’an, but it’s ruling is still followed.


Regarding death by stoning for adulterers according to Islam,... not only does it illustrate an outdated, barbaric brutality, but it also raises the issue of the corruption of the Qur'an.

reply to post by WarminIndy


If I could give you a few more stars, I would

As an ex-Muslim,... I had to wrestle with and hide my doubts and heart-tuggings, for the simple fear of hostility and being ostracized from my community. Well, sure enough, when I left Islam, I lost my friends and community. I've gotten both direct and indirect threats. The last words one of my former Muslim friends said to me as a threat, "You're lucky we're not in a Muslim country."

Blasphemy, slander, disrespect, hypocrisy, and disbelief are easily attached to any Muslim individual who asks too many pertinent dogmatic questions. Fear is a major tool in keeping Muslims obedient.



Becoming Muslim: I Did Not Read The Fine Print

As was stated by Arpgme elsewhere ....

"Do everything in love" - 1 Corinthians 16:14

Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. - Romans 13:8

Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. - Romans 13:10

For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” - Galatians 5:14

If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, “Love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing right. - James 2:8

Anyone who says Jesus supported stoning a person to death has NO CLUE Who Jesus is and what He taught. They are just cherry picking to fill their own sick bloodthirsty agenda. They are telling LIES about Jesus. It's just that simple.

For Muslims to say that they would tie someone up and bury them in sand up to their chest, and then bash that victims head in with rocks for 20 minutes until that person is dead ... even after their 'prophet' Jesus said NOT TO .... well that's beyond sick. And then the muslims have the audacity to try to claim it would make God happy ... it's supposedly Gods law to murder people like this so if people follow this murdering law it would make God happy .... that's evil and disgusting.

the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” - Galatians 5:14

THESE LINKS describe how a stoning happens.

National Post - Anatomy of a Stoning

Civil LIberties - Death by Stoning

ANYONE who supports these acts is a sick and evil, and a menace to humanity.

reply to post by WarminIndy

The fact that I believe Moses was real comes from the descent of his lineage in that he was descended from Levi. And therefore, I believe Levi was real and so was Jacob and Isaac and Abraham. But Abraham comes from a real known place, Ur of the Chaldees, but everything before Abraham does not have to be accepted as literal,

FF believes Moses and Abraham were either evil or not right in the head. Or something on those lines.
Do you, as a Christian, believe this about Moses and Abraham?

because the stories of Adam and Eve are older than the Hebrew Bible. The flood story is also old, found everywhere.

The Adam story being old is irrelevant to your religion.

The Adam story is directly connected to your faith in Christ as savior... because Its from the Adam/Eve story from which the doctrine of "original sin" is derived. And this doctrine is used to substantiate the idea that Jesus was a "sin sacrifice" for people to be saved. (Romans 5:12-21 and 1 Corinthians 15:22)

Adam > original sin > Jesus sin sacrifice

When you reject Adam and Eve as myths, you dismiss the doctrine of "original sin" which Jesus "sin sacrifice" supposedly fixes. Its all inter-connected.

reply to post by FlyersFan

I can't tell if you are thick headed or just can't help telling lies ....

You're the one being thickheaded by insisting your view is shared by the majority of Christians.
It isn't. You are all by yourself in this regard.

Your own thread shows that the vast majority of Christianity doesn't take the OT literally.

Ah yes. Because the vast majority of Christians on this planet have participated in my thread.

Also, I'm waiting to see a link to any mainstream church / denomination that shares your bizarre views on Adam, Eve, Noah, Abraham and Moses etc.

sk0rpi0n
FF believes Moses and Abraham were either evil or not right in the head. Or something on those lines.

1 - OFF TOPIC DEFLECTION ATTEMPT (and wrong) .... address the issue that YOU would have no problem tie up a person; burying them in the sand up to their chest; and then bashing their head in with rocks for 'at least' 20 minutes for a slow painful death (as prescribed by stoning laws). Address your own bloodlust.

2 - You have been shown ON YOUR OWN THREAD that belief in the Old Testament folklore and myth is NOT necessary in order to be a Christian. THIS THREAD RIGHT HERE .

3 - You should really stop trying to tell Christians what they should and shouldn't believe in Christianity. You have shown that you have no clue what Jesus was teaching or Who Jesus is. Islam has warped your understanding of Jesus. Throw away that made up crap in the Qu'ran and really learn what Jesus said via the gospels. Then maybe you'll learn something.

When you reject Adam and Eve as myths, you dismiss the doctrine of "original sin" which Jesus "sin sacrifice" supposedly fixes.

Original Sin is a CATHOLIC concept. It means that we are all born sinners. And the Vatican has said that if evolution is proven to be how God made us, then that doesn't change that we are all born sinners and in need of 'saving'.

Seriously dude ... stop talking and stop trying to tell Christians about Christian beliefs ... you are embarrassing yourself.

The essence of Christianity as taught by Jesus -
the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” - Galatians 5:14

THESE LINKS describe how a stoning happens.

National Post - Anatomy of a Stoning

Civil LIberties - Death by Stoning

Disgusting. Evil. Insanity. Uncivilized. Bloodthirsty.
AND AGAINST WHAT YOUR PROPHET JESUS TAUGHT.

reply to post by FlyersFan


what the muslims want is to just prevent adultery and make a better family centred society.
Just like singaporeans want to make a drug free society and not wantingly execute drug traffickers.

Tell me, do you approve of adultery? Its not a crime at your place and when its not a punishable crime people would do it except the ones who have better morals and/or are godly and know that its wrong and a sin.

Regarding the story of the adulteress and Jesus pbuh. Riddle me where was the man if they had caught her in the "act"?
Even according to sharia she would not be punished as it requires two to commit that crime.
Those jews were just planning to put Jesus pbuh in trouble by making him either go against the law of Moses or upheld it and end up going against roman law and became a criminal. He just solved it in a smart way.
Do you really think those jews had anything to do with demaning stoning or they were rather trying to do him in and tried it every way they could?

Remember when they asked him about paying taxes to Ceasar? And again Jesus pbuh smartly escaped by answering "Give God what belongs to God and to Ceasar what belongs to Ceasar"

sk0rpi0n
You're the one being thickheaded by insisting your view is shared by the majority of Christians.
It isn't. You are all by yourself in this regard. I'm waiting to see a link to any mainstream church

DEAD WRONG. AGAIN. No matter how many times you tell that lie, it doesn't make it true.
THIS THREAD RIGHT HERE
It's all there.... starting on page one ... quotes from christian churches and teachings.
But you won't man up and admit your wrong. Ever. Pretty pathetic.

OFF TOPIC DEFLECTION AGAIN ON YOUR PART ....
Stick to the topic.

YOU would gladly tie up a person, bury them up to their chest in the sand, and then proceed to bash their head in with rocks 'for at least 20 minutes' in order to murder them in a painful and slow manner. And worse, you try to tell people that God wants people to bash each others heads in.

That's the topic ... for once how about you actually stick with it.

I can't believe this thread...people are actually saying this is ok?
Oh and to the people wishing Islam on everyone...bring the fight dudes, we will destroy you and any other religion trying to force their views on others.
You want a Religious war? BRING IT we will fight until religion is no more like a doctor fighting cancer.
HUMANITY FTW!!

logical7
what the muslims want is to just prevent adultery and make a better family centred society.

Um .. no. A civilized court of law can do that. It can be done financially. There is no need
for someone who breaks the marriage contract to have their heads bashed in. Thats extreme
punishment that doesn't fit the 'crime'. There is NO EXCUSE for ANYONE to go and bash another
persons head in with a rock for 20 minutes. NONE. It's uncivilized.

Tell me, do you approve of adultery?

Oh stop it. Don't play passive/aggressive with me. It won't work.
I, and the vast majority of Americans, do not approve of adultery.
That doesn't mean that someone should get their head bashed in with rocks
because they slip up.


Again ... follow what your 'prophet' Jesus said ... 'let him without sin cast the first stone'.
EVERYONE is a sinner. Therefore, NO ONE should be throwing stones.

Romans 3:23 - for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

Isaiah 64:6 We are all infected and impure with sin. When we display our righteous deeds, they are nothing but filthy rags. Like autumn leaves, we wither and fall, and our sins sweep us away like the wind.

1 John 1:8-10 - If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Romans 5:12 - Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned

the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” - Galatians 5:14