A Silent conspiracy of Islam - one extreme opinion

Lumpy79
Let me pose a question:

If i decided to take my family to say, Yemen and set up home there. I started my own business and became successful and then shipped over another 20 of my family and encouraged them to have 4+ children each. My "community" now reached a decent size in comparison to my village or town so i demand a church be built and UK laws to be implemented because Islam wasn't my cup of tea. What would happen?

What would happen is, i wouldn't get past the first sentence and i'm honestly ok with that because i respect the fact it is their land. So, why is it that same respect doesn't exist with these extemists?

THIS! I'm all for tolerance. But it has to work both ways and it doesn't unfortunately. And this is incredibly true of most immigrant communities here in the states (and perhaps elsewhere). It's why I don't get the whole "Little China", "Little Ireland", and "Little Italy" type communities found as subsets of major cities. Don't forget your culture and where ya came from sure. But if you come to America expect to be an American, live like an American, and speak English like an American. If you want to live in a mini-version of your country then stay in your country.

reply to post by Astyanax

Extremism doesn't flourish in democratic societies, for the simple reason that most people aren't extremists. It takes hold when societies become less democratic.

I agree...but I never said they flourished. I only said that the democratic society enables them to take hold...they hide in plain sight...among "ordinary" muslims...they are rarely exposed until it's too late.

Let the kid in the video have his rant. His Islamic Republic of Belgium or whatever he calls it is never going to happen except in his dreams

I think it can happen, simply by way of numbers. But I hope you're right.

The real danger is that of a Muslim bogey held up as a convenient enemy to justify repression and distract people from the real enemy nearer home — the ones who know what is best for the people, who believe they know exactly what democracy is. The ones who've forgotten that freedom of speech is for everyone.

I don't want to go into it in this thread...

reply to post by MrConspiracy


hey man...I hear you.

thank you for your realistic approach to a post. We can forget about being politically correct here. Telling it like it is ...is refreshing.

For what it's worth...I sympathize with your sentiment.

Would like to add...I'm all for open borders and everything...but not until we subdue the savage beast that is within us humans. We need to become earthlings first...division is futile and ultimately false.

Terrormaster

Lumpy79
Let me pose a question:

If i decided to take my family to say, Yemen and set up home there. I started my own business and became successful and then shipped over another 20 of my family and encouraged them to have 4+ children each. My "community" now reached a decent size in comparison to my village or town so i demand a church be built and UK laws to be implemented because Islam wasn't my cup of tea. What would happen?

What would happen is, i wouldn't get past the first sentence and i'm honestly ok with that because i respect the fact it is their land. So, why is it that same respect doesn't exist with these extemists?

THIS! I'm all for tolerance. But it has to work both ways and it doesn't unfortunately. And this is incredibly true of most immigrant communities here in the states (and perhaps elsewhere). It's why I don't get the whole "Little China", "Little Ireland", and "Little Italy" type communities found as subsets of major cities. Don't forget your culture and where ya came from sure. But if you come to America expect to be an American, live like an American, and speak English like an American. If you want to live in a mini-version of your country then stay in your country.

Hi all, Im a Canadian and I have been living in Algeria for 4 years now, only westerner in sight and I would like to share what I have observed. I think a lot of westerners underestimate the primitive nature of a lot of such immigrants who come from no education, no justice, dictatorship, poverty, unemployment, and who are kept out of the political process largely cause they are kept busy just trying to build their homes and survive. Life is hard here, there are no courts for offenses, justice is taken into the familys hands, and it really depends on the family how that justice is applied not because they want it this way, they have no choice because of the government. So imagine what your left with as far as how your thought process has developed with only God to rely on and no democracy in sight. A lot of people imagine prosperity, jobs, and political freedom will answer what they are missing but they are naively very wrong. They don't know what to do with it when it is given to them and thus lies the problem. Maybe embassies should make immigrants do more preparatory cultural study and tested more thoroughly BEFORE ARRIVAL. I know I get frustrated often here but I do see hope and normality in some and not all Muslims are bad, just some, just like anywhere. Thanks for reading this, and I hope I contributed something.

reply to post by CottonwoodStormy

I think a lot of westerners underestimate the primitive nature of a lot of such immigrants who come from no education, no justice, dictatorship, poverty, unemployment, and who are kept out of the political process largely cause they are kept busy just trying to build their homes and survive. Life is hard here, there are no courts for offenses, justice is taken into the familys hands, and it really depends on the family how that justice is applied not because they want it this way, they have no choice because of the government. So imagine what your left with as far as how your thought process has developed with only God to rely on and no democracy in sight. A lot of people imagine prosperity, jobs, and political freedom will answer what they are missing but they are naively very wrong. They don't know what to do with it when it is given to them and thus lies the problem.

You just knocked the pudding out of my mouth with that post. This is something that has to be taken into account, ofcourse.

Thanks. Your perspective is noted, valid and appreciated.

reply to post by MarioOnTheFly


Your very welcome, I am happy to do so, lol.

CottonwoodStormy

Terrormaster

Lumpy79
Let me pose a question:

If i decided to take my family to say, Yemen and set up home there. I started my own business and became successful and then shipped over another 20 of my family and encouraged them to have 4+ children each. My "community" now reached a decent size in comparison to my village or town so i demand a church be built and UK laws to be implemented because Islam wasn't my cup of tea. What would happen?

What would happen is, i wouldn't get past the first sentence and i'm honestly ok with that because i respect the fact it is their land. So, why is it that same respect doesn't exist with these extemists?

THIS! I'm all for tolerance. But it has to work both ways and it doesn't unfortunately. And this is incredibly true of most immigrant communities here in the states (and perhaps elsewhere). It's why I don't get the whole "Little China", "Little Ireland", and "Little Italy" type communities found as subsets of major cities. Don't forget your culture and where ya came from sure. But if you come to America expect to be an American, live like an American, and speak English like an American. If you want to live in a mini-version of your country then stay in your country.

Hi all, Im a Canadian and I have been living in Algeria for 4 years now, only westerner in sight and I would like to share what I have observed. I think a lot of westerners underestimate the primitive nature of a lot of such immigrants who come from no education, no justice, dictatorship, poverty, unemployment, and who are kept out of the political process largely cause they are kept busy just trying to build their homes and survive. Life is hard here, there are no courts for offenses, justice is taken into the familys hands, and it really depends on the family how that justice is applied not because they want it this way, they have no choice because of the government. So imagine what your left with as far as how your thought process has developed with only God to rely on and no democracy in sight. A lot of people imagine prosperity, jobs, and political freedom will answer what they are missing but they are naively very wrong. They don't know what to do with it when it is given to them and thus lies the problem. Maybe embassies should make immigrants do more preparatory cultural study and tested more thoroughly BEFORE ARRIVAL. I know I get frustrated often here but I do see hope and normality in some and not all Muslims are bad, just some, just like anywhere. Thanks for reading this, and I hope I contributed something.

That is a great incite to the flip side, thanks.
Given what you say, then shouldn't immigrants be given a lesson on; firstly Western culture, then the country the want to join?
What we see happening is exactly how you tell it. Immigrants from 3rd world societies bring with them 3rd world ideals. Now magnify that from that 1 person to millions and you have a micro country inside another because they are basically living like they used to, execpt now they have a new backdrop.
They aren't the victims, far from it. They have their old customs and religion with Western comfort, technology and money. The native people have to adapt to them, when it shouldn't be that way and that's why people get mad.

reply to post by Lumpy79


You think your mad, can you imagine what its like for me here? I am teaching this one small town in all that I do what WE are really about too. I still respect their country and practises, but I also give them mine too with respect. Frankly, I don't cover completely, I stand up for justice and rights, I work like a man, I go to shops alone, I work on my own as an artist and teacher of English, and show them another perspective. I completely understand the frustration going on in the west with this 3rd world mentality, this mentality needs to improve in there respective countries as well. I know women here, with less then grade 5 education working for the towns government in administration roles. We are talking really really behind which almost no one knows or discusses, then they think they will come to a western country and marry a rich man and they cant even speak English! That's how some of them THINK!!! Add to that a very thick skin cause again the only justice is dealt by the family and you have hard headed stupidity. How I am dealing with it is not easy, I have to be very very strong or they don't respect you especially me being a woman, I had to grow thick skin, and I suggest western countries implement some stronger educational policies with regards to integration and who is allowed. It is a big real problem but its not all people here. My husband for example is a male version of me, was very influenced by French culture, is an engineer, speaks perfect English, Arabic and French, and is normal but I have also spoken with him for 10 years and he was open to my influence. His family on the other hand are completely wild and I have to distance my interaction due to the said reasons above. You can lead a horse to water but you cant make it drink.

Cobaltic1978
Islam was forced upon people through violence and this will continue to be the case.

They want to live in the dark ages? That's fine, go ahead, but don't expect us to follow suit.

The problem we have here is in the main a result of western foreign policy. If we stayed out of their business, then they would have stayed out of ours. Unfortunately due to our continuing persistence of bringing warfare to a number of Muslim countires, this has displaced millions and also contributed to making young Muslims seek more extremist views. Will this be changing any day soon? I don't think so.

This is just the start really and things will certainly get worse, unless the Muslim commuinites do more to expose extremists living amongst them. And also continue to speak out against these extremist views, but they are scared to do so because of retribution.

In 2000, who would have seen this coming? Particularly in Europe. But here we are and what are our Governments doing about it? Maybe the plan is to make Islam the chosen faith of the One World Government?

Impossible because in Islam Muslims must oppose oppression so if anything they would be the ones fighting against the government.
There is no extreme Islam. The reason why i say this is because as a Muslim, one can not fight unless that person is being heavily oppressed. That means that his basic civil rights are being taken away.
And what every happened to innocent until proven guilty without a doubt. There are many white, black, Asian, Arab, etc Muslim it is a lifestyle and a belief.

MarioOnTheFly
This short video is an interview of one of the leaders of Sharia-For-Belgium groups. It's worth mentioning that it's an Islamic extremist group, which you can deduce by the title of the group itself.

I don't know about you christians, jews or hindus...but I, as an atheist, am feeling the fear here.

Few points from the mouth of this man, worth discussing:

1. Sharia will be implemented world wide (he projects Brussels will have majority of Muslim population by 2030.)
2. There is no difference between Islam and Sharia
3. Democracy is the opposite of Sharia and Islam
4. Muslim who says is against Sharia, it's impossible...he is not a Muslim
5. A democratic Muslim is impossible, same like Christian Jew or a Muslim Jew.
6. Amputation for theft, stoning for infidelity...only a small portion of Sharia
7. apparently in Antwerp, 50 % of children in schools are Muslim.

Now, to downplay all this...we can brush it aside and claim it's a small extremist group. But think about it...what if...really the population of Muslims becomes majority...the extremist voice would than be much stronger. Much more vocal...and the non extremist groups...I fear their fervor and conviction is always less strong than those of fanatical extremist groups, simply because they are willing to spread fear and destruction fueled by their fanatical beliefs.

We shouldn't forget the trouble these extremists cause when they run rampant...and the democratic society enables them to slowly take hold. I fear that Sharia could be enforced eventually, because even the moderate Muslims would accept it easily...since it's kinda...fused in the entire Islam ideology.

If enforced...or even given the chance to choose...would the moderate Muslims reject sharia ?? I doubt it.

Muslims want Sharia

A Pew Research survey of 38,000 Muslims across 39 countries shows the majority favour the implementation of sharia law - though interpretations of the Islamic law vary widely.

Read more: digitaljournal.com...

Good luck democracy...

I'm gonna go on the record and say it. I know it's unpopular and undemocratic...but I just feel uneasy around Islam. Our cultures are so different and they just don't mix...and I feel we shouldn't.

Let me have it...

Im just saying that if the majority of Europe lets say 90% want sharia law who is anyone to oppose them. Seriously how would anyone like it if lets say 90 percent of china wants democracy is it all right to go against them. Its better that we work together instead of trying to win.

All religion seems like an unamerican activity. Especially islam.

reply to post by MarioOnTheFly


It's a real shame. This man is not Muslim at heart. his speech says it all. Don't be fooled Sharia law is extremely flexible that is why it has persisted for so long. I am sorry you feel uneasy around Islam. Being a Muslim myself, I can tell you some of what he actually says has some merit. Example Democracy, which no one on this earth lives under anyhow, cannot be intermingled with Islam in some cases. One for example would be the fact that in order to get a divorce you have to either free a set number of slaves, if not then a set number of community service must be completed, and if you cannot then you must feed 60 people. Another example would be that fact that debt must be whitewashed, meaning no system may be implemented which uses interest. These points I've read and heard from the Quran itself.

HOWEVER, it also states (which I've personally read from the Quran itself) that you must treat people as equals, if not brothers in Islam brothers as humans regardless of race,color,origin ect. Also it says that if a Muslim were to make a deal a non-muslim and that person completes his end of the bargain then you must complete yours. And the last point I'll make is the fact that if a nation or person refuses Islam then you must deal with him/them with fairness unless they cross you, then you may cross them. and if it were to lead to battle then do not harm their children, women, or their lively hood (even as to a branch of a date tree).

There are many things unknown about Islam, these people have no substantial evidence and should not be trusted not only as a depiction of Islam but as people. However I do challenge anyone to find me proof (proper proof, not taken out of context) of evil inside the Quran itself, and I will read it with an open mind. I am a new Muslim and was not raised as one. therefore, I did not have Islam engraved in my mind like some children. I hope all come with peace and leave with peace. This is actually how Muslims say hello and goodbye. The challenge still stands at any time.

reply to post by MarioOnTheFly


I hope you know that Shariah law is NOT applicable to non-Muslims. In other words, it is NOT applicable to you. Shariah laws can ONLY be imposed on MUSLIMS. Non-muslims follow the civil law. Please research before you open up an issue that clearly shows you have no idea at all about.

reply to post by Cerridwen


You are jumping to conclusions. The issue here is potential over breeding...once the Muslim population reaches majority...there is a danger of civil law being changed. It's how democracy sort of works...if you have the majority...you can change the law.

reply to post by NeoMuslim

It's a real shame. This man is not Muslim at heart

Well...I accept your feeling...however...he feels the same about you...obviously.


But you raise again an interesting point.

I am sorry you feel uneasy around Islam. Being a Muslim myself, I can tell you some of what he actually says has some merit. Example Democracy, which no one on this earth lives under anyhow, cannot be intermingled with Islam in some cases.

Well...since we live in a "Democracy"...and I use that term loosely...and Islam is by your account and by this extremist man's account, not compatible with Sharia...how are we supposed to live together in a same community than ? Would the Muslim population that reaches, let's say 50% or 60 %, would they allow the rest to practice democracy... ? We couldn't practice both...it's either Sharia or civil democratic law...and why would the majority accept something that isn't compatible with their belief ?

a small clarification for future posters. No need to get offensive or defensive here.

I will repeat. I realize this man is an extremist. I'm not putting all Muslims in one basket.

There were 2 important issues that arose from this thread...

1. Some of the Muslim members here actually confirmed, that some of the things this man has said, are actually true, concerning Islam and democracy and Sharia. I find that slightly disturbing.

2. The extremist plan is over breeding. Not all Muslims are extreme, but as I said, and a member Said confirmed, normal muslims would support even the extremist well before any non muslim.

I find it also...slightly disturbing.

Over breeding could work. It happens in nature all the time.

MarioOnTheFly
reply to post by Cerridwen

 

You are jumping to conclusions. The issue here is potential over breeding...once the Muslim population reaches majority...there is a danger of civil law being changed. It's how democracy sort of works...if you have the majority...you can change the law.

Nope. You're the one jumping to conclusion. You don't understand how Islam works, even after I have explained it to you. So I'll explain it again for those who do not know, especially you.

You see, even if 99% of the world population become Muslims, Muslims CANNOT impose Shariah laws upon non-Muslims. Did you read that? No? I'll type it out again. Here goes - Even if 99% of the world population become Muslims, Muslims CANNOT impose Shariah laws upon non-Muslims. Why? BECAUSE IT SAYS SO IN THE QURAN. It is the LAW of ISLAM. And as you know, the Muslims follow what is in the Quran. And the Quran clearly says:

Say: O disbelievers!
I worship not that which ye worship;
Nor worship ye that which I worship.
And I shall not worship that which ye worship.
Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion.

(Qur'an 109:1-6)


You are actually being scared over nothing. This is because you do not understand the fundamentals of Islam. No matter what you read in the non-Islamic media about Islam, no matter how much you are being brainwashed and programmed to believe bad things about Islam, it does NOT change the laws of Islam. A fact is a fact, even if you can't or do not want to accept it. So I'll say this again - Muslims are FORBIDDEN to impose their Shariah laws on non-Muslims, no matter how bad things turn out to be. Non-Muslims can ONLY be judged by their own laws within their own community, or a civil law that adheres to both Muslims and non-Muslims (yes, Muslims can be punished by the civil law as well, I'm sure you have found that out by now, but Muslims CANNOT impose their Shariah Laws upon non-Muslims, no matter who told you so).

If there is ANY Islamic body or organization or ANY MUSLIM that says the opposite - he is NOT a Muslim. Either he's throlling you, or his knowledge in Islam is so shallow, that he does not even understand his own religion (if he's a Muslim). Any Muslim who says the Shariah laws can be imposed on non-Muslims, is NOT a true Muslim, and has clearly deviated from the REAL teaching of Islam.

Open your heart and your eyes, and SEARCH for the TRUTH. Do not be so gullible that you believe every word and every idea that is being bombared into your sense. Stop reading articles on anti-Islam websites. You want the truth? Go and get it right from the horse's mouth. We are living in end times, where there are powers that be, that want to see us hating and killing each other.

IS THIS WHAT YOU WANTED?

reply to post by Cerridwen


Shariah includes all laws, legislation, punishments, and edicts regarding Islam.

Non-Muslims living in Muslim-controlled majorities are forced to pay Jizyah Tax (Non-Muslim Taxation).

By very definition, this single example illustrates Shariah Law being imposed upon non-Muslims.

Your conclusion is incorrect.

Assalaamu alaikum.

MarioOnTheFly


1. Some of the Muslim members here actually confirmed, that some of the things this man has said, are actually true, concerning Islam and democracy and Sharia. I find that slightly disturbing.

2. The extremist plan is over breeding. Not all Muslims are extreme, but as I said, and a member Said confirmed, normal muslims would support even the extremist well before any non muslim.

I find it also...slightly disturbing.

Slightly disturbing? You are very soft, Sharia law and other nonsences who came with Islam are despicable , awful, absurd, cruel.I'm leaning a little to left and also liberal , but to every monkey who try to impose Islam, Sharia law by force to me and my family he will meet this friend

files.abovetopsecret.com...

Cobaltic1978
reply to post by chishuppu

 

Even though they are a minority currently, their voices are very loud and I forsee the Muslim communities increasing their support over the coming years.

They are talking 17 years, but in all liklihood it is going to take longer than that. However, who's to say they will not be the majority faith thoughout Europe in 50 years time? This will have a bearing on the number of politicians who are Muslim, the same people who make the laws. If this is the case, who's going to stop them?

If the Europeans want to make countermeasures against that, then the solution is simple! All Native Europeans need to have more children(minimum 4 per mid-income family and more than 6 for a high-income family) and make sure their population doesn't fall below the immigrants!