Proof we were Created - Yes, I said Proof!

Originally posted by EnochWasRight

Originally posted by sleepdealer
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

But you don't even realize that you've redefined "logic", "truth", "rational" etc to fit your own theory, so of course nobody is going to have a serious debate with you. Most proponents of evolutionary theory/scientists define those words very differently. While both are theories, only one of them rests upon undeniable facts. These facts speak for themselves, they don't need Dawkins or anyone else to be convincing.
This has always been the contrast between sci and religious theories, and your attempt to use scientific logic to persuade people into believing your theory simply doesn't work.

It doesn't seem to stop science from conjecturing theory. They are out of control trying to dance around the actual truth. See the new thread: Ad Hominoid Subtribe of Diatribe

They are not out of control. Science doesn.t conjecture theories. Perhaps in the hypothosis stage that could be said. Scientists look at a problem nd look for multiple ways to explain it. Evidence, is gathered through a very rigoris process and all the hypothocies that are not suported by evidence are thrown out. Gathering hard evidence through repeats observations, tests and experiments is not what i would call conjecture by any stretch.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


osted on 25-8-2013 @ 02:21 PM this post
No contradiction. Bond servant and slave are different. This is implying our salvation after the work of the servant is complete. We are bonded to serve others. Salvation comes AFTER Christ returns.

Hebrews 9

28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

Soooooooo! Christ was sacrificed to take away our sins but for those of us who didn't bother with all that palava, and just kept on sinning (whatever that is) its ok, cause he's comin back to give us salvation if we hang around for his arrival... meaning its a WIN WIN WIN situation...whoopeeee... not often its heads I win tails you lose, in my life anyway...

Originally posted by Megatronus

Originally posted by EnochWasRight

Originally posted by sleepdealer
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

But you don't even realize that you've redefined "logic", "truth", "rational" etc to fit your own theory, so of course nobody is going to have a serious debate with you. Most proponents of evolutionary theory/scientists define those words very differently. While both are theories, only one of them rests upon undeniable facts. These facts speak for themselves, they don't need Dawkins or anyone else to be convincing.
This has always been the contrast between sci and religious theories, and your attempt to use scientific logic to persuade people into believing your theory simply doesn't work.

It doesn't seem to stop science from conjecturing theory. They are out of control trying to dance around the actual truth. See the new thread: Ad Hominoid Subtribe of Diatribe

They are not out of control. Science doesn.t conjecture theories. Perhaps in the hypothosis stage that could be said. Scientists look at a problem nd look for multiple ways to explain it. Evidence, is gathered through a very rigoris process and all the hypothocies that are not suported by evidence are thrown out. Gathering hard evidence through repeats observations, tests and experiments is not what i would call conjecture by any stretch.

They look at any way other than the obvious, which is God did it. That option is off the table.

Originally posted by flipflop
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

osted on 25-8-2013 @ 02:21 PM this post
No contradiction. Bond servant and slave are different. This is implying our salvation after the work of the servant is complete. We are bonded to serve others. Salvation comes AFTER Christ returns.

Hebrews 9

28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

Soooooooo! Christ was sacrificed to take away our sins but for those of us who didn't bother with all that palava, and just kept on sinning (whatever that is) its ok, cause he's comin back to give us salvation if we hang around for his arrival... meaning its a WIN WIN WIN situation...whoopeeee... not often its heads I win tails you lose, in my life anyway...

25 I know that my redeemer lives,
and that in the end he will stand on the earth.
26 And after my skin has been destroyed,
yet[e] in[f] my flesh I will see God;
27 I myself will see him
with my own eyes—I, and not another.
How my heart yearns within me!
28 “If you say, ‘How we will hound him,
since the root of the trouble lies in him,’
29 you should fear the sword yourselves;
for wrath will bring punishment by the sword,
and then you will know that there is judgment.”

The answer is here. Can you see it?

reply to post by EnochWasRight


So your strategy is to claim that an artifact like the Bible counts as sci evidence/fact and that comments about the fact that your manner of defining "evidence" is far from being scientific or accurate count as ad hominem attacks?And you don't see anything wrong with that?

Hmmm I think we were created by aliens but that is just my opinion....

Originally posted by Spacespider
Religious texts is as much proof as Lord of the rings really happened
The movie is proof

When you apply pseudo science it is, what if this text was in another language, does the formula still apply?

There is design in nature and god has left his mark, in the Qur'an god says: "...and I have left signs, for men of learning..." which when examined points to things like the construction of the human body, the marvel of the universe, the ever expanding bank of scientific knowledge we gain.

Science doesn't take away god no matter how much people want to believe, it brings god into the equation - a creator who created the same we we are the creators of what we create.

PROOF 3:

To the OP:

Why is it when we read some of the 'Biblical texts' (Adam & Eve, Ziusudra/Noah, Garden of Eden, etc.) in their original Sumerian Cuneiform texts, all of your word count number play turns into utter hogwash?

PS: wanted to add - one of the reasons (among several) why peculiar number counts appear in the Old Testament has to do with Gematria

a traditional Jewish system of assigning numerical value to a word or phrase, in the belief that words or phrases with identical numerical values bear some relation to each other, or bear some relation to the number itself as it may apply to a person's age, the calendar year, or the like.

Ancient Jewish Rabbis lived by numerology, they learned by rote the Pentateuch (the 1st 5 books of the OT) which was entirely composed of precise numerical values - I suspect that had a practical use, to ensure future generations of Rabbis don't change the wording or composition, even in the slightest.

Originally posted by EnochWasRight

Originally posted by Megatronus

Originally posted by EnochWasRight

Originally posted by sleepdealer
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

But you don't even realize that you've redefined "logic", "truth", "rational" etc to fit your own theory, so of course nobody is going to have a serious debate with you. Most proponents of evolutionary theory/scientists define those words very differently. While both are theories, only one of them rests upon undeniable facts. These facts speak for themselves, they don't need Dawkins or anyone else to be convincing.
This has always been the contrast between sci and religious theories, and your attempt to use scientific logic to persuade people into believing your theory simply doesn't work.

It doesn't seem to stop science from conjecturing theory. They are out of control trying to dance around the actual truth. See the new thread: Ad Hominoid Subtribe of Diatribe

They are not out of control. Science doesn.t conjecture theories. Perhaps in the hypothosis stage that could be said. Scientists look at a problem nd look for multiple ways to explain it. Evidence, is gathered through a very rigoris process and all the hypothocies that are not suported by evidence are thrown out. Gathering hard evidence through repeats observations, tests and experiments is not what i would call conjecture by any stretch.

They look at any way other than the obvious, which is God did it. That option is off the table.

No, they look at any way that the findings point. If the findings pointed to God then they would follow them in that direction. They don't because there is zero evidence for "god did it".

reply to post by EnochWasRight


There is a problem with the entire Bible in itself and especially when it is used as proof. The first thing is how it came to be and the person who ultimately does the translating and determining what is and is not in the main line cannon.

There are 2 parts to the Bible, the old and the new Testament. To start with let us look at the Old Testament. It was broken down and ultimately into sets. The first 5 books is called the Tanakh. In those books, it tries to explain the begging of the world and how we came to be, outlined the laws to live by. Most people agree, it was around 600 BCE that it was first written, and even then it was not completed until 400 BCE. Before that, it was given via oral tradition, and that can be seen the difference between the oral and the written word, if you look at the completed sections of the Dead Sea Scrolls. In those, they have found where the text of what we believe to be true and the older version is much difference, with some books having more to it than what was written down originally.

And to make matters more problematic, there was a point at which the ancient Hebrew language, the classical language that it was, almost died out, around 200 AD. It barely hung on, so therefore one can conclude that the translation is at best a rough guess, rather than being the actual translation. Even now there is debate on what the words that are written actually mean, if they say one thing or another. Point in case would be the entire story on Moses and the exodus from Egypt. The debate being if it was the Red sea or as some scholars are pointing out, it could have also meant the Reed sea, as the word used means for both.

Even now, the earliest writing, and it is still in debate, shows the earliest writings to be around 3000, years ago. But then again it is still not the problem at hand with the entire text, as it is a translation of a translation of a translation. Even most linguistic scholars will state that things get changed, added or the meaning totally changed from the what was the original intent. After all, it went from the Archaic, to the Standard, to the Late to the Israelian, to the Dead See to the Mishnaic to the more modern day time frame, and even then you have dialects and mistranslations of words that either are not used or changed.

Now you get to the point of the rest of the Bible. At one time there was no standard Bible, it was a mix of oral and written down texts, with multiple traditions to teach and show, to give way and ultimately to educate people. The standardizing of the texts did not come around until, 325 with the first council of Nicaea, when they standardized the text into one cannon, debated and came up with the text that would be mostly the standard for today. In that council it was debated on and the list of what would and would not be doctrine was established. It was changed over the years, coming to a point where the only text that the Bible could be printed in would have been Latin, that changed when church law was broken and it was translated around the 6th century and then it was under the threat of death by papal order to do such. It was not until later that it started to be printed into other languages. The next major change came about in the reign of King James, that the standard bible that we know came out around 1604, where he was following in the footsteps of Henry VIII, who had commissioned the Great bible and the Bishops Bible. He did such to standardize the text itself and it became a standard for many years. Ultimately it was finally standardized by 1769.

The very proof that you have used, is simply a book that has been translated, over and over and over again, where there can and ultimately be mistranslations, additions and subtractions from the original text, and the very scholars who can read and understand the very original writings are far and few between, meeting only very rarely or are in one place. So unless one has a working and proficient knowledge of English, Latin, Greek, Classical Greek, all 5 periods of Hebrew, Aramaic and other languages, there really is no way to be sure what exactly the translation is, or that it is exact to the extent that it is fully accurate.

But beyond that, there is one other small tiny detail that is not mentioned in the Bible at all, and that is of the large thunder lizards or of the mega fauna that we have actual record of or of the large prehistoric creatures that roamed around at one time. One would think that the very notion of a large cat with big fangs eating people would at least be worth a mention, if not the huge birds that were running around that time frame.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


God bless you brother , if only they knew how "The Son of Gods teachings have been hijacked" by tyrants ,
But all the Internet Gangsters up here in this thread are laughable , lol, and trolls , i havent seen alot of reasonable answers or questions on here which makes me think ,why are they on this thread , ? You are presenting a case /thread with zeal and passion, education and intelligence , quoted with scripture , and you are full of faith!!!!
The lord christ healed, raised the dead , protected ,and spread the good news ..Christ Died and Rose , he was one of the good guys , And the world hated him for that ...and they will hate anyone who loves him ,
SO IF ALL YOU IN HERE WANNA KILL ME FOR CHRIST , RIDICULE ME CAUSE OF CHRIST ,

it would be my honor to die for christ and his teachings , i dont fear death , i would gladly lay down my life for anyone willing to kill me for loving the ways of jesus , where are the psychics ? where are the remote viewers? where are the satinists? where are the worshippers of baal? i present myself before thee , here i am ,do your best . i invite you to search my memorys ...cause i got something on loop just for you , send your greys ,send your demons ,send HER, the whore of babylon , send your Priests of evil, Ill be waiting .....AMen , Praise the Lord , The Holy One Of Israel, The Lord of Hosts ,The Most High , and bless my brothers and sisters in christ ......Now Read the Scripture In my Signiture , and know me ....AMen

reply to post by Spacespider


Your reply is proof that ATS doesn't always deny ignorance, but embraces it.

As for the thread, it's interesting and it makes some interesting points. However, I can't say this is proof. I did enjoy reading it and thank you for sharing it with us.

The world is corrupted , so how can man write and reveal everything ? The spirit of truth reveals , and the lord reveals unto man, And at these times ,more and more will be revealed , people say wake up, but it is God who wakes the people up ,who wake the people up,who then awakens the world !!
We are spirit wrapped in flesh,and your spirit vexes you,and you have a particle of eternity in your spirit , REPENT !! And Change your ways !!!

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
In this simple thread, I will show you undeniable proof that Creation over Evolution is the primary truth appealing to the rational mind. Delusion can be the only state of mind for anyone trying to cling to any other conclusion.

"This is simple. You must believe it. Or you are deluded."

Well, I don't see the need for that type of ad hominem attack

PROOF

You got the header right. Now let's see what's under it.

Proof 1 [...] In podcast 3, Chuck outlines this simple fact about John 1 and Genesis 1.
If you take the product of letters times the number of letters in Genesis 1, then divide the product of words times the number of words, you get 3.1415.

Proper fumbling with codes and formulae will inevitably "proof" that there are hidden messages in any substantially large amount of legible text. As professor McKay shows here, even in Moby Dick there are devine messages! Now, either you believe that Moby Dick was inspired by God, or you will accept the truth of the matter: that it is mumbo-jumbo, not connected to any intent of the original author.

Proof 2

I have just properly debunked your first proof. Now, maybe you offer something more substantial next, let's see..

In Hebrew, letters have meaning.

As they do in any other language, what else would be the point..

But you seem to indicate that Hebrew letters are also words. I don't know, but for sake of the argument I will believe it for now.

Taking the word down to the meaning of the letters, we have Aleph (Strength), Mem (Water) and Nun (Seed). This makes the word TRUE. The strength of the waters and seed. Aleph is also authority. What is the authority in physics? Strong Nuclear Force.

Even if you are right that Aleph means Strength etc. - then AMN might just as well stand for sperm (well, at least that of a healty man): watery stuff that contains strong seeds. It also might stand for strong ale, as ale is made of seeds and water. It might stand for sneezing too, which releases a lot of (bacteria) seeded water with an amazing strength (force). And so on.

You first assume that any hebrew word contains hidden messages that are build from the word-meaning of individual letters, and then pick just one of the myriads of possible meanings - of course the one that suits you. And the answer you provide to your own question is again one of the many possible, including "well, mr Reeves of course, he was my old head master and gave physics class".

You are a blabbering fool. And that is not an ad hominem attack, it is an observation. A scientific observation: you use a lot of text (blabbering) and say nothing of any substance (fool).

I've said this a million times, but evolution doesn't really disapprove god..maybe, just maybe evolution is just the manifestation of the great work which we couldn't possibly understand. I don't think "god" is any personal consciousness.

if there is some kind of eternal creator which is multi-billion years old, could we possibly understand it's motives? Most of the religious texts are allegories, simply for humans to understand bigger concepts.

Enoch walked with God , Enoch warned the Fallen Angels that they will not escape Gods wraith in corrupting Mankind , So hear the knowledge of Enoch , Enoch was mighty in Gods eyes , Enoch will return to this planet , for Enoch was truly taken away !
Repent ! And turn from your wicked ways , and fight the good fight , be baptized by water , and be set free from the enslavements of this terrible world !!!
Be blessed and free from sickness , and love not the things of the world , but trust in hidden riches of heaven ,which are forever , may Gods love be poured out upon every one here now ,and may evil flee from your life forever , and be nurtured in the loving arms of the creator who loves you,SEEK FIRST THE KINGDOM OF GOD , Have love,Hope and Charity ...Seek not the churches !!!! But search the scriptures

B ...... asic
I ...... nstructions
B....... efore
L ...... eaving
E ....... arth

Originally posted by StaceyWilson
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

it would be my honor to die for christ and his teachings , i dont fear death , i would gladly lay down my life for anyone willing to kill me for loving the ways of jesus , where are the psychics ? where are the remote viewers? where are the satinists? where are the worshippers of baal? i present myself before thee , here i am ,do your best . i invite you to search my memorys ...cause i got something on loop just for you , send your greys ,send your demons ,send HER, the whore of babylon , send your Priests of evil, Ill be waiting .....AMen , Praise the Lord , The Holy One Of Israel, The Lord of Hosts ,The Most High , and bless my brothers and sisters in christ ......Now Read the Scripture In my Signiture , and know me ....AMen

That paragraph sums up everything that is wrong with religion. The whole "my god is better then yours and is the one true god, my holy book is also the only true book/truth and im willing to die to prove it because i don't fear death because of heaven" line ALWAYS scares me when people say it. The amount of wars and terrorist incidents that have been started over this is mind boggling.

Originally posted by TheTalentedMrBryant
Macbeth, Act II, Scene III

Macbeth says:
"The spring, the head, the fountain of your blood."

If you employ the same convoluted mathematics from your links to the above line, the result is 3.141584569 x 10^69, en even closer approximation.

Turns out Shakespeare was God.

Sounds like a decapitation event done by the Muslim extremists...maybe this line is the irony behind Macbeth and terrorists

Op I'm lay it out like this. Every religious person I've ever met is full of @#$%. If you guys think you are going to heaven then I am damn well going to hell. I don't think you're going to heaven. I don't believe in the bible but let's just say that it is real. So let's say Satan exists. He is probably not going to take every single person thrown his way because he has to. He is of equal power. His side was never told. I'll outrank you idiots. See you there.