Proof we were Created - Yes, I said Proof!

Originally posted by FyreByrd

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
reply to post by FyreByrd

 

There was a link provided in the OP, as well as a podcast linked by Missler that gives you the answers to your questions. Read the OP. LINK

But you aren't answering even my first question - What bible?

It's not based on a translation, but the Hebrew text. Which Hebrew text you ask? This is the first verse of Genesis and this verse is consistent throughout. For John 1, the Greek text. See the podcast 3 by Missler. He gives the history of the Rabbi that found this.

reply to post by EnochWasRight




Well done for upholding the A.T.S tradition of stating you have proof in your thread title and having anything but.

These posts always interest me. Do you feel that all Christians are in this state? How does your view relate to the Gnostic view of God, Sophia and the Son? Can you expand what you mean, because many people--especially from Masonry and Theosophy--have this veiled view they refuse to relate in the open. Why hide?

Originally posted by ParasuvO
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

Your higher nature has been hijacked, from before you got to this planet, it is high time you remember this fact, as you waste unimaginable resources trying to rewrite yourself to somehow help yourself find a god that has been not around since it looked itself in the mirror.

Far greater mysteries have occurred than the ones you have boxed yourself into.

I feel you desperately need an big time manifestation of some high powered '___' so that you can see the incredible amount of things you are missing.

Trying to convince people from the position you have taken that somehow the "CREATOR" is responsible for all of this and yet has to desperately clone a mysterious tale to convince the masses that its words are correct, and that is all it needs to claim victory is interesting, and likely just another "fallen being" trying to have you release it to its escape from the hell it has created.

My God man, you are going to be in terrible shock, and perhaps damaged beyond repair if you do not actually realize what has happened here, and actually try to fulfill your mission to REALLY do something about it!!

Just a side note. In 1 Kings 7:23 it says biblical pi is equal to exactly 3.

"And he made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one brim to the other: it was round all about, and his height was five cubits: and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about."

Originally posted by flyingfish
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

Why write Genesis in encrypted form so as to mislead people for 2500 years until you came along to explain it to them?

There are other major problem with your efforts besides the obvious fact numerology is stupid nonsense.

You've already predetermined that the Bible conforms to science. So a match must be found!
Anyone can distort, contort, numerologize, misapply, confirmation bias and just be plain wrong about science, the Bible, or both such that a match....however unpersuasive, is found.

If you were actually correct, you should be able to announce and predict science simply by reading the Bible, just as we should be able to predict the future by reading Nostradamus. But neither ever actually happens.

The point is that numerology is silly, as you can make it do most anything you want, and attribute to the various permutations to almost anything you want.

All without the least bit of evidence.

Yes. There is a scientific prediction that tells us the results of taking the fruit of knowledge (Technology) as a graven image.

Matthew 24

22 “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.

GMO foods; Japan; BP Oil Spill and the list goes on. God told us in Genesis 3 that taking this knowledge, and the results of manipulating and transmuting his creation, would lead to the Earth on the edge of utter destruction. Yes. It's happening all around you.

Carbon has 6 protons, 6 electrons and 6 neutrons. It is the mark of mankind.

Revelation 13

18 This calls for wisdom. Let the person who has insight calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man.[e-or of mankind] That number is 666.

How do we overcome? 777 is Nitrogen. 888 is Oxygen. Both of these numbers represent a significance from the word of God based on the number associations to Father and Son. Carbon chokes out the breath. The Word is spoken with the breath. To preserve the breath of God, we overcome with the Word.

The beast mentioned above is the animal nature of mankind.

2 Timothy 3

3 But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.

There are 18 identifiers. He says, "Mark This!" 6+6+6

The temple of God is the body. The body is that of Christ, the Son of God. According to the pattern of temple worship, the beast is sacrificed, the altar cleansed and sins forgiven. In this case, a scapegoat (Ram in the thicket) will be provided. Abraham was asked to sacrifice the son Issac. What happened in this episode will happen between the body of the Son (Church) and the unrepentant (Ram) caught in the thicket. Now is the time to repent in the waters of baptism (Involution into the material world).

Matthew 3

7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to where he was baptizing, he said to them: “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? 8 Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. 9 And do not think you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. 10 The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.

11 “I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with[c] the Holy Spirit and fire. 12 His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”

Where do you suppose that fire comes from? 999 is fluorine. We refine uranium with it. When mixed with carbon, you get fluorocarbon. It's mixed with toothpaste and drinking water to calcify the pineal gland. In a mirror, the numbers are twisted twice from 666. You can say that all of this is mere coincidence. I say this:

1 Cor 1

18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written:

“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”[c]
20 Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. 22 Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, 24 but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength.

26 Brothers and sisters, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. 27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28 God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, 29 so that no one may boast before him. 30 It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. 31 Therefore, as it is written: “Let the one who boasts boast in the Lord.”

It is not our works that matter. It is Christ that matters. He points us back to the Father.

reply to post by flipflop


Proof 1 was a reflection of the other 1000 things stated in the podcasts. There is a pattern from scripture that is unity of the whole. The OP does not rest on proof 1, but expands this to DNA, the letters of Father, the Word of Son and so on the list goes. Again, I keep telling those replying to read the thread for all it's worth. A few hours of time would show you how utterly foolish it is to scoff at these amazing truths.

Originally posted by Argyll
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

Delusion can be the only state of mind for anyone trying to cling to any other conclusion. This is what I stated. What conclusion is that? Proof we are created.

So you are saying that anyone who does not agree with your conclusions is delusional?.....sounds like an ad hominem to me.

I stated that delusion can be defined as ignoring what is most evident. The specifics of who this may be would then be revealed as the thread progressed. You are the one that needs to decide if it a fallacious argument or the truth of the matter. To me, it is evident. Not only this, but I show why this is true. Deny ignorance is what I say.

Originally posted by boncho
Do you even know what a scientific theory is or are you completely illiterate when it comes to science?

You make it sound as if a scientific theory were some divine revelation held in utmost respect and a subject of keen veneration. As any theory, scientific theory is good only upon a degree of acceptance. There are presently many, and sometimes quite diverse, scientific theories which tend to answer the same question, so all of them cannot be correct at the same time. Btw, theories are not being proven; their validity is supported by acquired evidence. So your criticism of the OP not supplying any proof made the floor around the toilet bowl unpleasantly wet.

Originally posted by tremex

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
Your higher nature is screaming at you to listen and pay attention. That's the knot in your heart pulling you away from cognitive dissonance toward truth. Once you surrender to truth, you are set free by faith from the law restricting you.

There is an irrefutable proof of things not going the way God had planned, because he added an expletive into the name of the first book of Torah: בראשית

That Hebrew word is pronounced "b_e_r_e_s_h_i_t."

You are making light of one of the most profound words in the Bible, the Bet (House) engaging all of creation. God is longsuffering and forgiving. Trampling on his words of truth is not a wise move. These truths should be held in honor. Remember, light reveals what it hits. In this case, light is the very word you are trampling.

berei# bara Elohim, “In the beginning God created”

Deuteronomy 4

32 “For ask now concerning the days that are past, which were before you, since the day that God created man on the earth, and ask from one end of heaven to the other, whether any great thing like this has happened, or anything like it has been heard. 33 Did any people ever hear the voice of God speaking out of the midst of the fire, as you have heard, and live? 34 Or did God ever try to go and take for Himself a nation from the midst of another nation, by trials, by signs, by wonders, by war, by a mighty hand and an outstretched arm, and by great terrors, according to all that the Lord your God did for you in Egypt before your eyes? 35 To you it was shown, that you might know that the Lord Himself is God; there is none other besides Him. 36 Out of heaven He let you hear His voice, that He might instruct you; on earth He showed you His great fire, and you heard His words out of the midst of the fire. 37 And because He loved your fathers, therefore He chose their descendants after them; and He brought you out of Egypt with His Presence, with His mighty power, 38 driving out from before you nations greater and mightier than you, to bring you in, to give you their land as an inheritance, as it is this day. 39 Therefore know this day, and consider it in your heart, that the Lord Himself is God in heaven above and on the earth beneath; there is no other. 40 You shall therefore keep His statutes and His commandments which I command you today, that it may go well with you and with your children after you, and that you may prolong your days in the land which the Lord your God is giving you for all time.”

Notice what he says: " “For ask now concerning the days that are past, which were before you..."

Why is the past before you?

Here is a quote from Vol. 1 of the series Involution and Evolution.

"As I begin to open this gift reflecting my own humble seeking, let me give you a present that will open your eyes to a better gift that awaits us all. According to Hebrew tradition, the past is in front, and the future is behind. The present is a gift. The past is in front because we are facing it. The future is behind because it has not happened for us yet. The word “aharit” (End) comes after, later or behind. What is in front has already happened. The lost souls of the world have no conception of what is behind them and are facing front as a shadow of choices made in the past. The righteous are turned the other direction and know the future through the hope of salvation. The saved face the unseen rather than what is seen. As a paradox, an assured future is known clearly with new eyes."

Seek what is behind and yet to come by seeking the truth of what is in front. God is amazing! Bet is the first letter of the Bible and the strong house of our salvation. To know the end, you can see the beginning. If you know the beginning, you can see the end.

"...ask from one end of heaven to the other, whether any great thing like this has happened, or anything like it has been heard."

My attitude toward that word is much different. I hope you see the deference before it's too late.

Originally posted by 0rbital
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

Well done for upholding the A.T.S tradition of stating you have proof in your thread title and having anything but.

The world grows by the logic of proofs and refutations. In this case, you refutation is lacking a proof of its own. Contrasting insights show failed proofs. You are not even trying to show insight. Apart from a stronger light, this room is illuminated by the one shining.

Daniel 12

3 Those who are wise shall shine
Like the brightness of the firmament,
And those who turn many to righteousness
Like the stars forever and ever.

If there is a god, religions and their zealous followers are doing him/her a big disservice.
There is no point in debating with the OP, as he's already made up his mind.

Originally posted by sleepdealer
If there is a god, religions and their zealous followers are doing him/her a big disservice.
There is no point in debating with the OP, as he's already made his mind.

Debate? Debate includes insight shined against discourse between two people. If there is something to be said FOR evolution, wouldn't someone have used the word even once in this thread with some form of evidence? Quote it from the thread if you can. This is not about being right. It is about seeing truth with a rational viewpoint that is credible. It is about what is most evident, then following that evidence to the conclusion. Once you know the conclusions, there is a conscious being at the end welcoming you to a brighter future. This is an amazing truth worth sharing, not trampling under foot.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


I, for one, think your thread was great. There will always be people out there that no matter what you say or do are not going to believe the truth, and are not going to believe the bible. They are so quick to judge and not open their eyes or hearts to try and see what the bible is about. To me, I can't fathom any other way we would be here if it weren't for God. Star and Flag for you, great post. Thank you.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


But you don't even realize that you've redefined "logic", "truth", "rational" etc to fit your own theory, so of course nobody is going to have a serious debate with you. Most proponents of evolutionary theory/scientists define those words very differently. While both are theories, only one of them rests upon undeniable facts. These facts speak for themselves, they don't need Dawkins or anyone else to be convincing.
This has always been the contrast between sci and religious theories, and your attempt to use scientific logic to persuade people into believing your theory simply doesn't work.

Originally posted by EnochWasRight

Originally posted by Argyll
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

Delusion can be the only state of mind for anyone trying to cling to any other conclusion. This is what I stated. What conclusion is that? Proof we are created.

So you are saying that anyone who does not agree with your conclusions is delusional?.....sounds like an ad hominem to me.

I stated that delusion can be defined as ignoring what is most evident. The specifics of who this may be would then be revealed as the thread progressed. You are the one that needs to decide if it a fallacious argument or the truth of the matter. To me, it is evident. Not only this, but I show why this is true. Deny ignorance is what I say.

I tell you what is most evident and what you chose to ignore: The evolution idea started with Darwin's publication "On the Origin of Species." That means the idea originated in England. The value of number Pi is usually given as 3.14. Now use the English alphabet and set 3=C and 14=N. Since Pi is a turn in opposite direction, there is a word that starts with C and ends with N.

C_________N ?

How about . . . CREATION?

Actually the correct solution is a full name where the first name starts with C and the last name ends with N. Remember what God said in Revelation 22:13?
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

C______ ______N

So what name is it? Take a wild guess . . .

CHARLES DARWIN ?

That's right.

So now you can see the logical opposite: CHARLES DARWIN CREATION

Originally posted by ML8715
They are so quick to judge and not open their eyes or hearts to try and see what the bible is about. To me, I can't fathom any other way we would be here if it weren't for God.

Goes the other way though doesn't it?

There are many people who believe the bible so much that they won't open their eyes or hearts to the possibility of it being just a book created from the imagination of man. You can't fathom us being here without a God because your mind is firmly closed against other options, I bet you don't even question your belief when everyone should, no matter what they believe.

reply to post by benrl


Of course places mentioned in the bible exsisted. That has no baring on whether its fiction or not. The gospels were written almost 2000 years ago. They would have used real place names in it. Im reading a book about werewolfs set in toronto and new york state. The places are real, so does that make the story non-fiction. The bible writers do what most writers do and wrote what they knew. Real place names and all.

The bibke is not proof of god, its full of contradictions for a start. If your going to take the good parts you have to take the bad. If it was the word of god and proof of his exsistance then im sure it would be perfect. No contridictions at all.

I came into this thread hoping for proof, to have my world view challanged. What i god was "god is real, the bible says so".

Originally posted by ML8715
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

I, for one, think your thread was great. There will always be people out there that no matter what you say or do are not going to believe the truth, and are not going to believe the bible. They are so quick to judge and not open their eyes or hearts to try and see what the bible is about. To me, I can't fathom any other way we would be here if it weren't for God. Star and Flag for you, great post. Thank you.

Thank you. There is a new thread now trumpeting the merits of evolution in relation.

The Ad hominoid Subtribe of Diatribe

Originally posted by sleepdealer
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

But you don't even realize that you've redefined "logic", "truth", "rational" etc to fit your own theory, so of course nobody is going to have a serious debate with you. Most proponents of evolutionary theory/scientists define those words very differently. While both are theories, only one of them rests upon undeniable facts. These facts speak for themselves, they don't need Dawkins or anyone else to be convincing.
This has always been the contrast between sci and religious theories, and your attempt to use scientific logic to persuade people into believing your theory simply doesn't work.

It doesn't seem to stop science from conjecturing theory. They are out of control trying to dance around the actual truth. See the new thread: Ad Hominoid Subtribe of Diatribe

reply to post by tremex


Evolution has many merits: Ad Hominoid Subtribe of Diatribe

I believe in both involution and evolution as the process of Baptism.