Necronomicron

The Necronomicon.
book of dead names.
written by the mad arab abdul azuzzaur (spl)

There is no copy in the British Library.
wackily enough though several pages from it were on display at the british museum for any one who wanted to check it out.

however if this is the book lovecraft based his storys on or wether it is simply an old book that shares the name is unsubstantiated.

regardless in answer to your question yes.

the necronomicon exists.
in fact there are several books shareing its name including a rather fine collection of art by H.R.Geiger

wether any of these tomes contain any mystical knowledge however is a matter of faith philosophy and speculation.

Originally posted by Lupe
The Necronomicon.
book of dead names.
written by the mad arab abdul azuzzaur (spl)

There is no copy in the British Library.
wackily enough though several pages from it were on display at the british museum for any one who wanted to check it out.

however if this is the book lovecraft based his storys on or wether it is simply an old book that shares the name is unsubstantiated.

regardless in answer to your question yes.

the necronomicon exists.

Woaaw, this book exist. It should be interessant to have a right translation.
I'm wondering what we can do with this book....

It was translated by John Dee
As far as I'm aware its his translation that exists today, originals were all lost or destroyed but the translation is rare enough in itself with only 4 or 5 remaining copies.
snooch.

Yo Lupe. your should have said this earlier: "wackily enough though several pages from it were on display at the british museum for any one who wanted to check it out. "
Last month i was walking right on the museum street when i went to visit that "famous" occult bookshop. If i knew this i would have taken a tour there. You know anything else about it, what did the pages look like?




[Edited on 13-8-2002 by Tyler]

I really don't know much about it.
about 4 years ago I went through an occult phase and decided to check the thing out.

John Dees an elizabeathan poet / mystic.
he translated it from a supposed original and from there it was translated into German and french.
as far as I'm aware only german and English copys survive.

The thing is theres no way of knowing if Dee actually translated the original book, I mean it hung around in latin and ancient greek before he supposedly got a hold of it and no one really knows if he spoke either language.

He was also pretty famous for recieving spiritual "messages" from the underworld. Visions he would collate and write down. from one of these he transcribed Enochian script. the supposed language of angels.

now heres the rub.

maybe ~maybe~ he had an original copy, knew enough ancient greek to translate it acurately and produced the work that survives today as a true representation of the original.

However, the other possibility is that the book never existed, Dunn"dreampt" its content and wrote a translation from his Laudanum addled mind.

either are possible.

The necronomicon as it stands was I believe stolen from the british library in the 40's.

Rumors suggest everything from Hitler nicking it to stock his private library to a private collecter taking the thing.

the pages that are left can I believe be viewed on request at the B.M. but I can't confirm that.

Nayway the facts are as stated.

The Necronomicon probably existed, though it will have been diluted through translation for several hundred years.

Dee translated somthing that he claimed was the original and that is all that remains of the original.

hope that helps.

Lupe
(oh btw didn't know you were in England or were English. that lil magic store rocks. I was near there on Monday)

Thanx mate, next time i'm in London, i will visit BM and ask them politely to show me the pages.

ps. check your U2U messenger

i seem to have hit a chord here....i posted something that actually got people to respond...i guess thats good. i think abdul alhazred would have written in arabic and not greek though....and if anything else, it would have been latin. remember, he was muslim, which means by the time he was around, the greeks were in greece and the romans were in rome, although rome was awfully damned big and then some, and they were still spreading. latin and arabic are the most likely languages for him to write in....especially if he wanted to be understood by more people

a good argument for the possibility that Dee made the whole thing up.

Yeah, I agree...Why would an Arab (even a "mad" one) write something as extensive as the Necronomicon in anything other than his native language...After all, it's the language he'd know best & have a full understanding on describing such esoteric principles.

MD
Shut up and sit down.

Al azif was written in Arabic originally. And let me tell you something "professional assassin" judging by your posts you dont know d*ck about anthropology and mythology.
Number 1 rule of this board is not to post false or misleading material.
I suggest you research the subjects and get your facts straight before adding your valuable comments.

I might point out the same thing about you...

You haven't provided any real proof yet...Only supposition that could very well be based on a fictional source.


[Edited on 22-8-2002 by MidnightDStroyer]

Dees translation of the necronomicon exists.
it is rare.
no one knows however if it is an acurate translation of a real book, or a fiction created by Dee based on myth.

Dee didn't translate the Necronomicon. That little gem came from a story of science fiction writer Lin Carter. And Carter made it up.

Here's a page you might find of interest:members.tripod.com...

And as for proof, let me be lazy and cut and paste the second page on that site.

---------clippage---------
To help would-be Necronomicon discoverers, here are some common claims and the necessary evidence to back them up:


Lovecraft knew that the Necronomicon was real: Direct quotes from Lovecraft's letters indicating that he knew this (include name of recipient, date, and publication and/or location of letter). Otherwise, verified biographical material taken from reminisces of friends, city records, etc.


The Necronomicon pre-existed Lovecraft: A pre-1920 copy of the Necronomicon (see below). Otherwise, documents from pre-Lovecraft times which mention the Necronomicon (list author, title, date, page reference, quote, and location of the particular copy). NOTE: The Egyptian and Tibetan Books of the Dead bear little resemblance to the Necronomicon mentioned in Lovecraft's work; if you want to prove that they were the originals, you should come up with biographical evidence to prove that Lovecraft did indeed read them before 1920 (see above).


Copy of the pre-Lovecraft Necronomicon: The best way to prove this would be to make copies or photographs of the title, copyright, and several other pages of the book. If the book is held in a library collection, include a print-out of the card catalog entry and the address and phone number of the person in charge of the collection which holds it. If the book is in a private collection, the owner's name, address, and phone number will be required. (This is only to get us started; evaluating such a copy will obviously require testing and expert opinions.) In addition, double-checking to make sure the copy was published before 1920 will save us both a lot of work.

A secret society covered up the book's existence/had Lovecraft as a member: This assertion requires a) proof that such a society does exist (with relevant citations), and b) that Lovecraft was connected in some way with one of its members (once again, with citations linking one to the other).

The following do not constitute evidence, so don't bother sending assertions based solely on them:


Speculation on what kind of person Lovecraft "really" was.

The power of Lovecraft's fiction ("it's so good, it must be real!").

Claims that you or someone you know has the Necronomicon but can't possibly show it to anyone or let anyone contact you (this means you from Quebec!).

Claims that the Necronomicon's existence has been covered up by the government or a cult, without evidence of such a program in place. (Evidence must be something besides the fact that no one can find the Necronomicon).

What you heard someone on the Internet say (I'm starting to think we should dub this technological wonder the "Misinformation Superhighway").

What your buddy at school/work/the club/whatever told you.

The hoax Necronomicons. (If someone was able to find a pre-1920 manuscript of one of these, that might be acceptable, but nothing published after then is.)

Thats interesting but begs the question, if Dee didn't translate it, what has the British museum got on display?

I guess somone should contact them and ask.

Someone should verify that they DO have a copy there on display. I agree.

...particularly since THIS page shows where the surviving copies are found:
www.chaosium.com...


And why should that disprove the fact?

Check the line "the Miskatonic University Library in Arkham, "

Now... go to Mapblast or Mapquest and do a search for the town of Arkham. Guess where it appears -- (no, the answer is OKLAHOMA and it's an itty bitty town and there's no "Miskatonic University."

Now go to the Widener Library at Harvard and do an online search of their collection. Yes, they have several copies of the Necronomicon... all of them are modern fakes (with publication dates given. Verifiable fakes)
hcl.harvard.edu...

And I'll bet that the British Museum one is equally fraudulent.

who are we to question the authenticity of the posts of our 'peers'? almost everything posted is a theory, a theory incorporating facts, sightings, or other such unreliable statements. i personally believe that the tibetan and egyptian 'books of the dead' are merely records or whatever and mythology and such, which happen to share the same name, and the other versions are probably the same thing. all three 'true' versions mentioned so far may well be edited interpretations of one, far older and now nonexistent version...

The Egyptian Book of the Dead (in short) is really nothing more than transcripts, descriptions & "magic spells" that the departed soul has in his/her tomb to help them navigate the underworld (Tuat) to paradise; In effect, religious scriptures. They've been inscribed on scrolls, painted on the sides of wooden coffins or carved/painted on the walls of the tomb. The extent to which those inscriptions were included depended mainly on how much the person could afford to have prepared before death.

Still, looking for the Necronomicon would be akin to finding only one true copy of the Principia Discordia...

"who are we to question the authenticity of the posts of our 'peers'?"

~we~ are, theoretically, discerning people with an interest in obtuse topics and a desire to discuss them and acumulate as many "facts" as we can in order to make intelligent decisions concerning the authenticity of various unqualified statements in regards to their existence and importance in society and history.

as such any "claim" or "theory" should be rigerously dissected and if possible the facts disseminated from them.

one of these "theories" is that, as far as I was aware, certain manuscripts pertaining to the necronomicon were held in the British library and, further research suggests that these were a translation by John Dee.

It is now somones responsibility to contact the British Museum and discover the truth, which I'm about to do.

so I think we can call this thread closed. we now have the solution:

I mailed the British Museum:

Hi.

I remember years ago being told that the British
museum had in its collection a copy of the
ecronomicon, the book of the dead immortalised in
fiction by H.P.Lovecraft.

For many years I assumed this, and the book itself,
were simply part of Lovecraft's fiction however
recently the rumour seems to have re-surfaced and now
several sources claim that one of 5 German
translations of the book by 18th century mystic John
Dee actually exist, and that one is held in your
collection.

I'm still not sure whether this is another myth
generated by recent interest in Lovecraft or if the
book does indeed exist and you have a translation.

I've searched your website but can find no reference
to it.
would it be possible to clarify whether you have a
copy or if it is another urban legend?
if it is a myth would you know whether the book itself
ever really existed? and if not, do you have any idea
why it has been linked to Dee and the British museum?

Sincerely.

Lupe

and they said:


Your initial thoughts are correct, the Necronomicon is a complete work
of fiction created by Lovecraft. For probably the best information on
the web please check the following website:
www.hplovecraft.com...

C. Arnold
Visitor Services

If you read the link it does provide some damn good info.

so cool!

case closed

Not quite.

Rummor that a copy is being held in BM is all around the internet. And now i bet every arsehole emails them and asks stupid question. They do the right thing when write such replys, thats what i would have said.

My (step) father is a curator, hes has quite a few good mates among the BM directors.
I will see if he can set up an appointment for me next time i'm in London.
I will personally carry out the investigation by the end of septemebre/october.