Lupe. A note about that website. It proves nothing.

For example he's letters where he states that he invented the content of his stories is not true. He maight have said that to loose any concerns over his mentality. I've read a number of Lovecrafts book (just today i was reading "Whispers in the darkness") i also read his bibliogrpahy ("An Annotated Bibliography by OH Kent) and bilieve when i say that Lovecraft was a very intelligent and gifted man. He did not want to threaten his reputation by admitting that the contense of his stories was real. Besides horror stories werent take seriosly at that time. And if one was to confess that any of the country folk stories were real, local community representative wouldn't sleep wel l at night until that person was placed in mental asylum.

I even have a proof and i would bet my all material possesions that Howard Philips Lovecraft did not invent Necronomicon and most of the cosmic deitis from his stories.

We've been waiting to see your proof, Tyler. You've been promising it for several weeks now.

(see post above for things we'd consider positive proof.)

hey Byrd don't rain on somones parade.
we have an interesting little quest here and, as Tyler suggests, these rumours must have started somewhere and most rumours contain an element of truth.

I'm sure if we put our collective resources together we can solve this little riddle.

none of us can prove anything...just word it convincingly...and conspiracies cant really be proven...we're just a bunch of deluded idiots...oh well...may as well enjoy ourselves while we can

The element of truth that the stories contain is that they all come from a cadre of scifi/fantasy pulp writers who were friends and who "messed" with each other's stories.

There's a lot of documentation supporting this, as well as "in jokes" if you read the stories. They'd stick each other in as evil priests of nameless gods and do all sorts of other literary jokes.

The joke on the location of the Necronomicon is just that... it's a gag. The museums and ANCIENT copies don't exist.

not so.
the museums do exist (unless reign of fire was a documentary) as such somone must have chosen the BM.

why?
the BL is a more likely repository.

post up any information and links you have concerning the writers and their motivations so we can get a better understanding.

as I said, all myth has a starting point in fact, lets explore it before we dismiss anything.

I have a report written by a professor in Moorhead State University. Aside from sharing his experience and opinions he backs them up with several dozen of academic and non-academic references and sources.

If i post it here, iím not going to, but if i did i'm sure no matter the contense i would get allot of hatred and heat from members like Byrd and nyef.
I don't feel particularly overwhelmed when i share something of value and get nothing but disrespect.

For the rest of you who don't get a chance to reed it you can say thanks to those 2 individuals.



[Edited on 31-8-2002 by Tyler]

I have never said a word on this topic,nor will I ever.I find some of the things interesting,nothing more.

Come, come.

No professor is ever afraid of having their material picked at, because they get it all the time. They have the sources (and when questioned will provide them) to back up their materil. I got hauled through the wringer on papers I submitted to professional journals (and had to rewrite until I could answer all the points (the debates involved nitpicky details in statistics and methodology. If you think it's a pain to "show your work" in math classes, this would introduce you to a whole NEW level of pain.))

It's not like this sort of thing is anything new for anyone in academics. No prof in the world is intimidated by that sort of questioning.

So, again, we ask that you give us proof. So far you haven't been able to come up with anything to prove that the old copies existed and that they have been authenticated as coming from Dee.

Byrd you don't get it. I'm not afraid for you to pick on professors work. There is a little egoist sitting and me and i simply do not want bad people to posses valuable knowledge

Tyler, that argument doesn't wash.

You've been touting this book, saying it exists, saying that the real one has been printed and is available... and saying you have incontrovertable proof that will stand up to any examination.

Now, suddenly, you announce it's from a professor and suddenly you don't want the knowledge to fall into the wrong hands.

Hello? Reality check: I don't know of any professor that has hesitated to publish "dangerous knowledge." Quite often they publish it as a warning.

This was done with the information on atomic bombs back in the 1940's, when scientists risked their careers to speak out against this dangerous weapon.

Got proof? Deliver it.

Actually this report is sort of a privet project. Its not available on the internet.
Just think about it for a minute. Some things aren't made to be public. Just like the real Necronomicon. If A.A. wanted everyone to read his life long findings and discoveries he would have hired human personnel or something and made a 1000 copies. That way it would sure survive to this day and everyone and i mean everyone would have access to one form or another.
But the fact remains simple: he did not want most people to know. Just like this report, it wasn't made to be public, and for a reason.

Do you know what standard deviation is?
Unlike Universal Law of Fives, this law only applies to every present life form on this planet.
external image

The world is for the smart, Byrd.

Yes, Tyler. I know what standard deviation is. I've taken Masters' level stat classes.

And I know what a "dodge" is, too. If this existed, there would be other documentation of it.

This "Gee, a Mysterious Professor Has Real Proof -- TRUST ME" doesn't hold a candle to the real evidence:

The Necronomicon didn't "exist" till Lovecraft wrote about it.
He and his friends in the Pulp Fiction group had a lot of fun with it.
He considered writing a fake Necronomicon.
The GoldenDawn/OTO/other folks got ahold of the notion and invented rituals around it.
It resurfanced in the 1970's after a bunch of reprintings of Lovecraft's stuff, and there are several versions and all of them are fiction.

Byrd, in your posts Iím starting to see your stereotype
But never mind.
Fact: HPL couldnít have invented his stories out of thin air. Because HPL's accounts of the Necronomicon provide a number of dramatic parallels with actual Arab myths and magical techniques. These parallels are too specific and detailed for it to be a case of
coincidence. Much of the material was not available in the books printed in English before 1930. This would seem to mean that Lovecraft either was given the information in
his stories by someone initiated in Arab magical traditions (which is VERY unlikely) or that Lovecraft had a written source of information on Arab myths and magic not publicly available. The second option is rather plausible as Lovecraft was an extraordinarily erudite bibliophile who Loved Arab mythology when young. Lovecraft Almost certainly had an unprinted, probably rare, book (or some other form of manuscript), on Arab myths or magic. This is the most economical explanation as to how very obscure information on Arab magic could appear in his stories. Although I said that his knowledge regarding Al Azif comes from Crowley I could be wrong, i think i am wrong. Lovecraft probably owned a book much like Al Azif.

Oh and Byrdie. You just said that Lovecraft invented N. Before that you reassured us it was work of Crowleyís hands. You seem to be jumping between conclusion like a young rabbit in a cabbage field

In the secrets of my book the wise shall find the Key of Salvation - the fool shall unlock the door to his damnation.

Fact: He did create it out of thin air.
Fact: Arabian literature was quite popular at the time:
While The Arabian Nights knew great popularity throughout the Middle East, it was rapidly translated into a number of other languages, showing its early appeal to non-Middle Eastern readers. Although the subtleties of language are unfortunately lost in translation, the exotic and romantic imagery provided great inspiration for the Western travellers, writers, artists and poets of the 18th and 19th centuries whom we refer to as 'Orientalists'. This period saw a surge of interest in the Middle East and Persian poems such as The Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam, Nizami's Khamsa and the Shahnameh were translated or re-translated, often accompanied by illustrations. Romantic poets such as Coleridge, Tennyson, Shelley and Byron were greatly inspired by the mysterious and magical East. 'Arabian' imagery, Middle Eastern history and folklore also provided painters such as Delacroix and Lord Leighton with endless inspiration. Writers such as Walter Bagshot appreciated the wild exoticism of the tales, comparing them to the drab realities of Europe in the age of the railway and the gas lamp. During the later 19th century and 20th century, the Western obsession with The Arabian Nights themes was still strong, as we see from Leon Bakst's Russian Ballet designs for Scheherazad and the endless cartoons and Hollywood films from the forties and fifties which are based on the adventures of Sinbad, Aladdin and other stories from, or based on The Arabian Nights
(from www.middleeastuk.com... )

Fact: the reported contents of the Necronomicon have absolutly nothing to do with Arabian myth. The "Arabian Nights" type tales common in the culture today date from the times of the Caliphs, immediately after Mohammad's death in the 600's-1200's or so. This is during the rise of the great cities, when there were astronomers and philosophers and alchemists and so on in the cities. Note that the religion is Islamic and the tales generally begin with "in the name of Allah, the merciful and wise." In these tales, heaven is ruled by Allah and there are djinn (genies - both good and bad) and efrits and houris and the land has magicians and sages and witches.

No "Elder Gods" or Yog Sonoth or Cthulu wandering around. Not a single tentacle among them.

Here's a listing of all the Elder Gods in Lovecraft's stories (which are associated with the Necronomicon: www.hplovecraft.com... )

You might note the quote at the top of the page: I really agree that Yog-Sothoth is a basically immature conception, & unfitted for really serious literature.
H.P. Lovecraft to Frank Belknap Long, February 27, 1931

The letters have been published in a series of books by Arkam House.

It's made up. SF/Fantasy authors can make up very strange stuff at the drop of a hat (Philip K. Dick, Ursula Le Guin, Madeline L'Engle, C.J. Cherryh... the list is endless. Joe Lansdale... ya want REALLY weird stuff, you should read some of Joe Lansdale's works from back when he and Howard ("Ugly Chickens") Waldrop were hanging around together at cons in the early 1980's.)

Byrd all of your so called "facts" are bogus. All of them.
I would tell you all about it but then again you would slip around it like a snake in olive oil. This whole argument is pointless and like a never ending staircase.

Byrd H.C. is right, neither of us can prove anything. You say that N never existed but remember, Its just your opinion

Tyler, this little post just to tell you that I LIKE your new avatar. Really cool. Good job Tyler.

Tyler, I can prove what I've been saying.

The links I've been giving are links to original source documents --INCLUDING LETTERS WRITTEN BY LOVECRAFT IN HIS OWN HANDWRITING.

You, on the other hand, haven't shown us a shred of proof.

Ahh thanks mate!
Although its just temporary, i made it a year ago and my views have slightly changed since then, or should i say they're more up to date right now

I found a good site all about the book.

www.digital-brilliance.com/necron/necron