Tyler, Byrd, your obviously both intelligent people and both your arguements make sense, and, as stipulated, none of us, short of authenticating a copy of the book itself, can prove its existence either way.

It seems that the Necronomicon is a popular piece of arcane mythology.

however like all good myths, there is probably a vein of truth somwhere in it, if not, then it would not have had such longevity, nor spurred men and women more qualified than us, to search for it.

It seems obvious to me that wether or not the book itself is real, its zeitgheist has permiated modern arcane lore and that suggests to me that its myth originates somwhere before crowley, dee or lovecraft.

I feel we should go beyond the "it exists, no it doesn't" argument and start looking at why the myth sustains.

amoungst my other sins I am a published author.

I promise you from the bottom of my heart that no story, character or situation in any of my books is a totally original creation generated by my brain.

They are all composites of existing or observed situations, people and thoughts.

as such, I am sure lovecraft ~got~ the necronomicon from somwhere, wether he saw ithe word mentioned in a dictionary, overheard a conversation in a bar, or picked up an unrelated book and thought, "hey! wouldn't it be cool if this book was called the ~necronomicon~ sounds wicked!"

If we can look at why Lovecraft chose to create this then maybe we would be closer to understanding what it was, where it came from and ultimately if it, or some related work, actually existed.

I suggest we try and find references to the book before love craft got a hold of the mythos.

Well, well, Lupe, you have impressed me. You actually communicated witout throwing insults about. Keep up the good work

I agree that we should move beyond the simple concept of "does it exsist or doesn't it?"; Still, whether or not something actually exists, doesn't the burden of proof ride on the shoulders of one who claims its existance? After all, it would be much easier to prove the existance...Non-existance can't be proven because a thing would have to exist before it could be destroyed & proven not to exist anymore.

"Well, well, Lupe, you have impressed me. You actually communicated without throwing insults about. Keep up the good work "

Bite my hairy Lupine Butt.

nayway, concerning proving its existence, no the burden of proof does not lie in the hands of those claiming it exists, it lies in the hands of all of us as investigative pursuers of the truth.

i am starting to regret starting this thread...all its done is reduce tyler and byrd and lupe and MidnightDstroyer and everyone else (probably me included) to a bunch of whiny, immature, ignorant little worms. i like your pic, tyler, and your wouldnt mind helping me get one like that, would you? i have just finished reading Thief of Time by Terry Pratchett, and i suggest it for everyone, if for no reason other than Rule One

I think I wrote this someplace else... don't remember where, though... anyway... oh, just remembered... I wrote his on

www.necfiles.org...

The Necronomican, by AVON Publishings, IS FICTION! If anything, it is a re-writing of Sumerian text.

However, I feel Lovecraft was on to something. He may not have known it, but he was writing... fictional tales about true, ancient "gods", along with the same styles of William Blake and Jung. These were archtype figures.

I believe that artists, writers, creative people in general, are more in touch with... forgotten possibilites. They are open-minded, more receptive to recieve images and ideas... much like a prophet or seer.

Lovecraft, in his writings, may not have known that he was re-creating something. Was there a Necronomican sometime in the past? Sure, why not? Was it the Lovecraft on? Probably not.

But what puzzles me, is that Lovecraft is considered WRONG because he was a writer, writing down what he dreamed...

If it wasn't for some sleeping shepard, there'd never have been a Koran, either.

[Edited on 6-10-2003 by soothsayer]

Ok, I'm sure it's already been said, but the truth is - The Necronomicon has been a myth for a hell of a long time, a tale passed down through generations that had no real basis. H.P. Lovecraft simply liked the idea and wrote a few stories involving it. From this a good many people believed it was a real book, but it was confirmed many times that it was a figment of imagination, a charade. But hey, if it is real, I'd love for someone to find it.

Weather the "text in the book" is real is debatable. The book Lovecraft wrote is real, it exists, yes. But the story, weather real or not, could be considered either way.

Basically, the incantations etc in the book are really the questionable feature. Are they real fake etc? Now, this is where it becomes impossible to tell hoax from real. Incantations, spells, hexes etc, are all determined by the caster. If the caster truely believes what they are doing is real, then it can be real.

There is no difference between the spells in the book, and those that are used by wiccans or other pagan groups. And for them, they believe, and many have "successful" spells. So what is real????

It's all in the eye of the beholder.

God, re reading this thread, reminded me what an incurable idiot and retard Tyler was. I had forgotten, but now I remeber why I had him on my "poster with congential brain damage list".

The Necronomicon (the paperback version, whatever version that is" what I read was quite amusing and obviously a fake.

When I was fully practicing magic and stdying it, I remeber a skinhead in the army who claimed it was real, and gave me his copy to read.

It was pobvious the book was a total mishmosh and rip off of other things. What i identified in the book:

Babylonian Fertility rites, Egyptian mystiscism, and a healthy does of the emtally retarded hysteria of the Maeleous Maelefectum. (The witches hammer, the book inquisitors used in the middle ages to find and persecute closet pagans, heretics, and people they wanted to kill who were inconvient).

The book was a mix of all the above, it also contained pieces from the Kabbalah and Kabbalistic rites, Hebrew mythology, ect.

It was a very boring read tho. I remeber one part, stating that Marduk was the name of an angel so holy that if you spoke his name, youd be damned to hell forever. Bull#.

Marduk was a Babylonian hero that eventually became a demigod.

I wish Tylers stupid ass was here, i wish i had known about the thread long ago so I could join with Byrd.

The Necrom=nominaon was a fake, period, a fanciful collection of rites and arcane lore from a shgitload of other cultures and civilizations thrown together to make it look scary, evil, and a favorite for wanna be devil worshipers bathroom reading material.

.

[Edited on 4-10-2003 by Freeman]

i have a pdf file of the necronomicon, anyone wanting it i will email to you, or would it be easier for everyone if i just uploaded it to a webpage???

Upload and give address please.

From what I know of the Necronomicon, it was a book written by a spell caster who had wished for eternal life and power. He wrote the book in his own blood to seal a deal he made with Satan. By writing the book in blood, he sealed the deal and was able to capture the souls of those who used the book in the name of Satan. To my knowledge, the book was thought to be held in a London vault and guarded heavily.

The book, known to have incantations and the conjurations of several of Satans minions, or as referred to in the book, Tetragramaton, or something of that nature.

I once studied sorcery, and a friend found a very old book in a library just before it was demolished. In the book, at the end, was a 7 day conjuration to sell your soul to Satan in exchange for 20 years of anything you wanted.

Wierd #...

Hey Kalistenics, Could you Send it to me over a chat program. i have AIM, yahoo and the one im mostly on MSN

pence_chris44@hotmail.com

E-mail it to me

Aleister crowley and his foolish waste of the Art,
resulted in two pop-culture urban legends: The
Golden Dawn although real was highly speculated
upon by fascinated youth throughout the day and
the necronomicon which, yes, not only is just an
invention of Lovecraft, but as a mason, his only
arcane or mystical connection is by the similarity
to the secrecy alone, of their own scripts of lore.

Well, I'm an avid Lovecraft fan, and I also have a degree in Archaeology (Greek, Roman, Middle Eastern and a minor in Mayan).

I also picked up the Simon version of the Necronomicon years ago because it looked interesting.

It's fiction. It has apparent incantations, some of which do have Sumerian roots, but it's fiction. Many of the deities named in it don't come from the Sumerian mythos, but from later historical periods. The gods whose names DO most closely resemble those of Lovecraft's don't actually turn up in any accredited mythologies.

FYI if you are interested in it anyway:

copyright 1977 by Schlangekraft, Inc.
Library of Congress catalog # 79-56778
ISBN: 0-380-75192-56

I have the 1980 printing, a black paperback.

It's fake, Lovecraft and August Derleth admitted it in personal letters to each other (I think Arthur Machen, too).

That people still argue about it's validity is an example of how much people WANT to believe in something strange and mysterious and cool. And since it deals with the Occult, you get tons of D&D nerds trying to prove it HAS TO BE REAL.

Unfortunately it ain't. If it was Aleister Crowley would have been ALL over it.


jakomo

Hey...I'm a D&D nerd, and I don't think it's real (hiding the human skinned evil tome under the pile of empty Dorito bags and Mountain Dew cans)

[Edited on 10-11-2003 by darklanser]

Necronomicron, a book of evil? Nah. In high school, some freaky guy in black handed me a worn copy of the Necronomicron. I have no idea why he did that or who he was! Anyway I looked through it, and there's nothing "evil" in it. It just a bunch of spells for rain, symbols of gods' names, etc. Just ordinary pagan stuff. There weren't any hexes or demonic spells in it.

[Edited on 15-10-2003 by BiohazardMouse]

Nercomomicron spells are very creepy, i don't recommend trying one. I started reading one and the atmosphere got really heavy and i had to get out the house not very good stuff. The spell book is banned in the UK because you can raise the dead.....or something