Race. We must talk about it, but we can't. Help, please?

reply to post by SilentKillah

Dear SilentKillah,

I not only appreciate your post, I'm a little surprised by it. I've seen you in a few threads recently and was starting to think you'd more likely extend a fist than a hand. I'm delighted to see that my first impression was incorrect. Thanks.

And thank you also for reassuring me that family life is being discussed. I'm disappointed that I haven't heard of it. I'm guessing, but that seems to be a subject about which all races could say, "They're just like us, worried about the breakdown of the family. They can't be all that bad."

Has this discussion been going on for a long time? Does it seem to be having any effect? Is there anything Whites can do, or is it best to stay out of it? Can we (meaning "I") help in any way? Letters? Call into shows? My disability check doesn't extend to making significant donations, but this is the best news I've seen in this thread, and I'd like to help it, if it isn't a "Family Only" discussion.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by firemonkey
You do realize that racism or discrimination doesn't really care what color you are. It is cunning makes you say things that you feel are right .................but are they? Sometimes it is best that we as human beings do what is right on an individual bases. But first one must learn what is right and what is wrong. That may take some people a life time, while it may take others a few years. If you look at things with hateful eyes then, that is all you will know. Try looking at things with loving eyes (which is easier said then done) and you will see a world with no color.....................Just some thoughts I am having while reading this post. Thanks Charles.

In my opinion I think A lot of what I would call "new" racism...as opposed to the blatant racism of the old south has to do a lot with resentment.
By that I mean I am a working man. I'm up at 3:30 am every morning, work my butt off in the heat and cold, snow and rain...and I dont deliver mail lol....but there are many things I would like to have but don't.

Now you see folks that obviously don't work but have gold chains, newest i phones, rims on their cars, gold teeth and it pisses me off.

When I go into the city these dang lids are walking down the middle of the road acting like they own it and laughing
as I drive around them as opposed to making the earth a better place by running them over.

I resent the fact that minorities demand equality while separating themselves and demanding special treatment.

I could go on but I'm taking my girlfriend out for a steak dinner that I worked to be able to afford

Originally posted by Tiger5
reply to post by TDawgRex

 

Well props to you as you have admitted it. I am also prejudiced. Perhaps if we all acknowledge our own prejudice then we can have a platform to move forwards. All that is then needed is that we then look at how we acknowledge our predjudices and fight against it. It is like fear - cowards are those who run and hide heroes are those who confront it. Both cowards and heroes feel fear but simply act differently.

edit on 17-7-2013 by Tiger5 because: misspelling

I've fought against being prejudiced for decades now. I believe now that it is a instinctual facet of the human psyche. As said by another poster, it's part of the fight or flight that we all havI think that you can overcome racism on a individual level, but nobody can overcome prejudice.

But there are elements of human society that I do actively embrace, mainly because they piss me off.I will only give one example though so as not to derail the thread. I am actively prejudiced against the WBC. And don't even get me started on Brussel Sprouts.

reply to post by ihavenoaccount


I believe that you've nailed pretty good with your thoughts, as have others. We can eventually get rid of racism, but there will always be something else to take it's place.

reply to post by SilentKillah
You'll get no argument from me! I have been on the receiving end and been the proverbial book judged by it's cover so I do understand. I have traveled a long path in my life, going from a tattooed exotic dancer/biker chick to a respectable granny and Bible school teacher which is no picnic in a small Texas town where you are almost always judged by your appearance and the errors of your youth. Think "Harper Valley PTA" if you would and you get the picture. It took literally decades before folks quit judging me by my looks and former ways in this little one horse town. I'm a firm believer in "Judge not, lest ye be judged"! I know it's not exactly the same, but relate- I definitely do!

reply to post by SilentKillah


Based on the statistical FACT that you're overwhelmingly more likely to be burglarized by a fellow that looks like Trayvon Martin (regardless of the underlying reason for that).

Originally posted by Tiger5
reply to post by SilentKillah

 

Was the neigbourhood black or white? I don't know and ask this simply because black burglars are most active in their own communities.

Trayvon Martin was described to police by other neighbors as looking out of place.

I don't see anything wrong with that.

These anti racism diehards are completely naive and delusional if they think there's anything wrong with that, or deny that they also make similar judgements.

reply to post by tinner07


haha!!

The walking in the middle of the street thing that SOME black people are famous for kills me!!! I will never understand that as long as I live.

reply to post by charles1952


Race is something we are supposed to talk about but never are allowed to And when we do, as Beezer so aptly pointed out, it is from a perspective or association of group thinking and acceptance. One poster said something like I'm not racist, I'm prejudiced. Many people do come at the notion of racism from this position and they feel comfortable knowing others do the same. As Beezer also said, any discussion of race is best when it comes through the individual. and that one person's perspective.

This idea of race is strong in this country. And it is the most negative aspects of this concept that is beginning to prevail upon all human intercourse. Differences and variations in the human expression, the most obvious and in your face being physical that is skin color and other physical characteristics, along with cultural differences... At any rate these variations in human expression more and more are being assigned responsibility for the proliferation of values and conditions that I and my associate group find harmful. Particularly to mine and my groups ideology. And eventually threatening our existence. This is normal human reasoning, although not exactly accurate Where it becomes bad is when we assign a lesser value to these differences and develop an intolerance and a will to stifle them.

How do you talk about race? I like the idea of coming at it as individuals. Leave the group think at home.

Just keep this in mind. Should your world turn out to be exactly as you think it should be, it would be a mess. You don't own the world. No one does.

Start from there. I think you got a real chance.

reply to post by beezzer


you only have merit when you earn it, if we all stayed in pre-K that ideology might work.

reply to post by undo


Why are there white people in South Africa? Is Europe, America full?

Whites have had ample opportunities to correct their shameful history with reference to treatments of ALL minorities in this country.

However, they've taken special satisfaction in denying blacks a public apology and couldn't even stay true to their word of 40 acres & a mule.

I mean look at the behavior of some of the fonts on here when he comes to race; denial, rage, challenge, aversion and yet you guys refuse to come to the last stage of guilt, acceptance.

Again, a real on conversation on race can be had when whites are able to sit down with respect while they're Being told about their human rights violations.

Until that day....

reply to post by ihavenoaccount


Just a quick moment to recognize you for achieving the rare, elusive quadruple post.

Now, back to what has returned to being a resonable discussion (thank god).

Originally posted by CSpitta
reply to post by undo

 

Why are there white people in South Africa? Is Europe, America full?

apparently when the brits colonized it years ago, people from england and india settled there. eventually, 100s of years later, because of apartheid, nelson mandela lead a group to stop apartheid and to create a new government. because the descendants of the original colonizers were born and raised there, when apartheid ended, they continued to live there because it was the only home they knew.

these are the ones who are being murdered now. many either died during the revolution to turn south africa into a socialist nation, were fired from their jobs and replaced by blacks, or left the country or both. the farmers were self employed, employed many blacks and their product (food) was an essential part of the country's infrastructure, so they were allowed to retain their property and continue as they had been. but as everyone knows, government change overs are fraught with difficulty, and as the troubles mounted, the government just pointed at the remaining white population -- mostly white farmers (everyone else had either died, left, or were homeless and penniless).

it's a tactic the bolsheviks used as well, during their creation of the soviet union.

Originally posted by CSpitta
Whites have had ample opportunities to correct their shameful history with reference to treatments of ALL minorities in this country.

However, they've taken special satisfaction in denying blacks a public apology and couldn't even stay true to their word of 40 acres & a mule.

I mean look at the behavior of some of the fonts on here when he comes to race; denial, rage, challenge, aversion and yet you guys refuse to come to the last stage of guilt, acceptance.

Again, a real on conversation on race can be had when whites are able to sit down with respect while they're Being told about their human rights violations.

Until that day....

A REAL discussion on race can happen when individuals such as yourself cease making demands upon entire groups of people. LIke white folks have some underground network where we collude to figure out ways to force entire subcultures within this nation to suffer under the heel of our boot. And we woulda gotten away with it if it weren't for you meddling kids!!!

No, you would be better served to ask for apologies from specific individuals who have wronged you personally. And when you fail to get one, learning to get over it and moving on. Or seek legal recourse, if you feel that is what is just.

But to sit and whine that you want whitey to come to the table with a public apology? What, all 2+ billion of us worldwide? Or just the several million in the US? Should it be done one at a time, or can it be done en masse, like hands across America.

That might be the stupidest thing I have ever read.

reply to post by CSpitta

The main problems when it comes to the question of race and relations of such, ultimately is the people and in particular those who are in charge. Too many prejudices exist, on both sides of the arguments, with very few willing to admit that the one side or the other is willing to give. And when something does give way, it is never enough.

In 2008, the US house of Representatives of the USA issued an apology for slavery and the Jim Crow laws. Yet it seems as though it is not enough. When there was segregation, and laws were enacted, even when the majority of the people did not like such, it was no enough. When affirmative action was enacted, to give all others, save those who were white, prefrential treatment, and yet here again, it does not seem to be enough. There are lines that are drawn in the sand, yet it keeps getting erased and moved, unfortunately it is starting to where the shoe is on the other foot, moving to where when it helps one group, it is in short legalizing discrimination against another group, all around race.


People are starting to wake up and see some things that are ultimately causing problems. The first problem when it comes to the discussion of how to get beyond the racial issues, is that people use such as a means to identify themselves. And the government does such as well. Look at the questions when it comes to race, it seems as though the government, for some valid purposes asks about the race of a person, but people identify themselves as such. People no longer state they are Americans, but African Americans, or Asian Americans, or Mexican Americans, or any other race/then nationality or even religion/nationality. It is as if they are deliberately seperating themselves from society at large, thinking it gives them a leg up, if they identify themselves as one or the other.

Now the question that I have yet to hear, is why I should apologize for anything that has happened in history. Yes I am white, but the facts are that I was not around when Slavery was its own pecullar institution, did not benifit from such. I was not even around when Jim Crow laws were enacted. Nor is it a reasonable expectation for me to even apologize or even give payment for such. Why should I?

People will say that just cause I am white, I have priveledge and should feel bad for the fact that I was born. And yet these same people will fail to mention that if you look at most social programs, cause I am a white male, I am left out in the cold. Funny when they talk about all sorts of social programs, they are designed to help every body but white males.

The other problem with race relations in the USA today are people like Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton, that will not let the past remain there, and the wounds heal. They keep digging and digging and it festering. Lets stop living in the past, and start living in the now and looking to the future.

I'm seeing posts on behavior and attitudes of certain cultures as compared to others. I don't want to hit anyone with the 'cultural relativity' stick- it's no good in my opinion.
The post is to speak honestly about racism. I have a problem with the Irish.
I was born and raised in an Irish environment, and in my opinion, they can do no right.
When I found out my father's side of the family was British, I was elated- I no longer had to bend under the weight of being called "uppity" or "weird" or laughed at because I used polysyllables. I must've taken after the British side-
I didn't drunkenly burn all the food at cookouts, I waited until the other person finished with what they had to say before responding, without butting in and trying to drown them out with Irish attention seeking ways.

There's a question of why people would continue with behaviors that would result in failure- my family was a bucket of horseshoe crabs. The minute one of us was successful, the other crabs would grab hold and pull them down in their efforts to also climb out of the bucket.
They can be snide and hateful and passive aggressive, cutting your good feelings of success out from under you.
Whatever you do, it's not good enough.
There's a saying: "They can fall into to # and come up in a silk suit." This pertains to how much they lie to make themselves seem better than what they are. Words and stories cover up for their lack of gumption.
This is why some cultures continue with self destructive memes in their lives. A wretched family cycle of low self esteem. Instead of cheering each other on, some cultures bash the ones that have the drive and individualism to make it, because they don't want to put into their own lives what it takes to succeed.
I have a good job, it took work and effort and nights of not holding down a barstool to get this job. Every family get together some tater masher rums up to me and asks me to put a good word in for them at my company, so they can horn their way in.
"So, basically, you're asking for MY job?" Because that's what they are doing, always bucking for the other guy's 'good luck', aka hard work and dedication.
Ninety percent of that side of my family just doesn't get cause and effect. They think life is a Disney movie, or if they sit on their asses and pray to God hard enough, their wish will magically be granted.
The Irish think That God is either an ATM or a Genie.

There. I've said it. I've got it out. I do have a race problem, so much so that if I read of a bone-headed crime, and I look at the mug shot, and it's a black man, I am always genuinely surprised. I ALways expect to see a red headed white man with pale eyes and freckles.
I wrote honestly, I think we do have to recognize if we do have a problem with a particular group of people, and I do.

Originally posted by FuZe7

Originally posted by Tiger5
reply to post by SilentKillah

 

Was the neigbourhood black or white? I don't know and ask this simply because black burglars are most active in their own communities.

Trayvon Martin was described to police by other neighbors as looking out of place.

I don't see anything wrong with that.

These anti racism diehards are completely naive and delusional if they think there's anything wrong with that, or deny that they also make similar judgements.

Hmm OK

(Note to self every black man must always be in their place (da hood) and never be anywhere near a white neighbourhood).

Yes I am proud to be a diehard anti racist!

reply to post by TheCounselor



Well I actually have similar experiences to you but from certain sections of the black community.

It is good to be able to criticise your own.

However how do you feel when someone from outside your ethnic group cracks the first anti Irish joke, then the second and then t the third???

I love the Simpsons. I delight in watching it with the grand kids and laughing at the adult jokes that they do not get. However I am disappointed that there have been blatant scenes of anti Irish racism.