Race. We must talk about it, but we can't. Help, please?

Originally posted by sdcigarpig
reply to post by CSpitta

 

The main problems when it comes to the question of race and relations of such, ultimately is the people and in particular those who are in charge. Too many prejudices exist, on both sides of the arguments, with very few willing to admit that the one side or the other is willing to give. And when something does give way, it is never enough.

In 2008, the US house of Representatives of the USA issued an apology for slavery and the Jim Crow laws. Yet it seems as though it is not enough. When there was segregation, and laws were enacted, even when the majority of the people did not like such, it was no enough. When affirmative action was enacted, to give all others, save those who were white, prefrential treatment, and yet here again, it does not seem to be enough. There are lines that are drawn in the sand, yet it keeps getting erased and moved, unfortunately it is starting to where the shoe is on the other foot, moving to where when it helps one group, it is in short legalizing discrimination against another group, all around race.

Well I found that to be quite bemusing. None of those people could be held responsible or accountable for the actions of the slave owners. Worst than that it was a PR stunt of the lowest. I am OK with affirmative action as a tie-breaker where there are two candidates with equal skills but how often does that happen?

Originally posted by sdcigarpig
reply to post by CSpitta

 

The other problem with race relations in the USA today are people like Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton, that will not let the past remain there, and the wounds heal. They keep digging and digging and it festering. Lets stop living in the past, and start living in the now and looking to the future.

But are these the only race baiters or are there a number of white people who also spout garbage to stir up strife?

It is very racist for anyone to imply that the black community is homogenous. The white community certainly is not .

As a white person you do have certain privelidges in terms of your skin colour for example you can go anywhere and not be identified by overzealous law enforcement officers as being out of place and tailed. Several multi ethnic criminal gangs manipulate white racism to commit crimes. I have seen homies in luxury goods shops acting in what some would say is typical black cultural ways and being tailed by store detectives whilst the white colleagues actually did the shoplifting.

reply to post by Tiger5


Haha. Again, I must be honest- I say to the one who cracked the remark, "we'd protest you but we're too busy drinking and fighting to do so."
And don't tell me that's not true- just look at the annual St. Patrick's Day Parade for proof.
(and why do the Irish need their own day and parade?)
When we see scenes like what you have described in the Simpsons, we accept it. I don't know why there's not a lot of anger, but there's not. It could be that the Irish have been so assimilated into the mainstream culture.
There's a Bugs Bunny cartoon that has two leprechauns in it, it has to do with "wearing of the green shoes" and it stars Porky Pig. One of my favorites, the animation is excellant.
Throughout the cartoon, the leprechauns will finish a sentence with a wry laugh, "uhr-hur."
Sometimes in seeing the Irish jokes in a show, we will go "uhr-hur.", at least my siblings and I do-

reply to post by charles1952


The idea behind this website is to deny ignorance. Racism is mostly about ignorance which is allowed to spread and germinate like cancer; often times being handed down like a gene to children. The truth is that sometimes learning the truth is an uncomfortable and sometimes ugly process that can not be avoided. Like a surgeons learning about the human body for the first time, some of that learning will be grim. People are going to have to get their feeling hurt and get awkward. Like starting a fight with someone you love because you care. We have to care that much now as people and fight, to love each other. It sounds lame, but it's true. There are lot of white people that have been slaves in the past, even during the time of black slavery here in America. We have more in common then our differences and if we can just be allowed to talk about those differences and why we are the way we are then certainly we can understand one another better and perpetuate a better more educated environment for all. We can then start celebrating each others differences and branch out culturally without fear of retaliation from our peers or outsiders.

If ATS were to permit such a thing, I'd be willing to get down on such an ugly topic and ask hard, and ignorant questions to learn. I don't want my account banned though especially if the post that I would martyr myself for would be deleted anyway. Something to think about....

Originally posted by firemonkey

Originally posted by TDawgRex
reply to post by firemonkey

 

You are replying on a emotional and possibly personnal experiance level. When a certain member gets my goat, I try to step away for a minute or so and think about it. (Sometimes I fail, but not as often as I used too. Hey! I'm human)

It seems to me, and I am probably wrong...maybe?, that you are getting angier as you type. I base that assessment upon your longer post above where you started out pretty good and about 2/3rd of the way through I just saw anger.

It is a touchy subject though. And your input is appreciated. reathe deep.

I have no anger, what you may have saw 2/3rds of the way down of that post is me bluntly replying to fairly racist claims.

I have no first hand experience with discrimination, I just have never experienced it myself. I am white, so I wouldn't expect to experience it. But I know many people who have, I also know many of my "friends" who are very racist. They aren't in public, and even talk very nicely to minorities...only to call them "n****ers" or "sp*cks" behind their back.

If I do seem angry, it is only because as a white male, I get to see the racism first hand from people who say incredibly racist things right in front of me, because they see me as one of them. So when people on these boards talk in a certain way, I can tell they are racist and are just choosing their words/phrases very carefully in order to hide their true intentions.

This This This This Firemonkey I concur with you on All points on this issue and you couldn't say it any better.

many just are not ever going to "get it" until they are in a tables are turned scenario for a LOOOOOONG period of time, meaning, what Real OPPRESSION looks a d feels like, AS A MINORITY marginalized and disenfranchised.

It has a lot to do with where on sits in society as well as exposure. That's the a trouble with attempting to get people in privelege status to understand what it Is really to be socially thought to point of normalization, etc., as Inferior. They can mentally perhaps relate on some levels but unless they've themselves have had to see through the "bottom of the well to speak based on their skin color, or gender" they still see it from that Paternalistic-Imperialist view.

This is not to say that in our history that all whites are on the same field, which I do find that among non whites there IS a lack of knowledge about That history, and I'm referring to the racism or what is better termed as Ethno-nationalism, such as you find in Europe. I think many ethnic Groups in Europe DO have a much better grasp on the harms of nationalism more so than Americans. But it didn't always Use to be that way...use to be Eastern white immigrants in this nation, indentured servants aka slaves, we're horribly looked down upon.

Bottom line, the reason discussions about Race never go anywhere in my opinion is the Refusal to TAKE OWNERSHIP OF BEING OPPRESSIVE. Like one said on another thread, whites, generally speaking, want to Sweep injustices under the rug so to speak and Trivialize them, and really when they do that, the message is Loud and Clear, and it says to the ones who've suffered injustice, "You don't matter, your humanity doesn't matter, you're not that important to deal Justly to, etc" and the cycle of injustice continues. And it screams a perpetuation of a narcissistic mentality that borders on sociopathy, like an abusive husband who Refuses to see that it's his abuse that is Wrong, not the Victim. Just using that as an example and the reason for this is this Belief, not just an excuse but a deep seated belief that has been REWARDED time and time again that he is Superior and that the victim is by Nature sub human and therefore abusing her etc is simply natural. And when that mentality is challenged the First thing is the minimizi g of abusive or oppressive behaviors. All of a sudden the oppressor becomes the victim because how Dare an inferior sub human challenge their Supremacy. Not only that but for the victim to even have anger is deemed "unnatural" because the victim is deviating from their subhuman place, why they are Meant to be subjugated or as often when it comes to Race, it's the excuse, when the oppressed becomes enraged that they are just acting like primitive animals, etc. it's never "the Human is fed up with the oppressive treatment, it's always it's unnatural for the oppressed to Think they deserve the same alien able rights as the supreme ones, etc.".

It's a dehumanization process that is so psychologically and spiritually damaging. What this Trayon case did do is TRIGGERED and yet still, the mentality is to brush decades of yes horrendous and Deliberate abuses aside and minimize them, even Spin them to where ownership never has to be taken.

reply to post by ThreeBears


Most of the white people I know are not for sweeping anything under any rug. They seem to be saying "Stop blaming me for your people's oppression. I personally didn't do a damn thing to you or your race. Stop blaming me for stuff that people who happen to have the same color skin did."

Same as I hear some upstanding black people saying "Stop blaming me for what some ignorant gangbangers do. I personally have not robbed or killed anyone, stop blaming me for something people who happen to have the same color skin did."

Sounds pretty similar, no? Both stances are racist, and they both need to stop if either of you groups of people have a chance of getting past the BS.

Most white people do not hate black people, a lot do fear them. All they see on the idiotbox are the gangsta rappers, preaching violence and crime. Can you blame them?

I would like to think most black people don't hate white people either, but fear them as well. Because all they really know about whitey is that "they are the oppressors", as taught by loudmouths.

Rail against the system, not white people. White people are not the enemy. Black people are not the enemy. Stop with the BS.

I have witnessed racism, and it still makes me sour to think of it.

You know those "Taste of" festivals that cities always have? I worked the beer booth with a woman that was a grandmother, a social worker, and black. I was working for college money, and so was she, for her children.
Money is dirty, so we would take turns, one collects the money, the other pours the beer. I'd collect the money until one of the kegs ran out, then she would pour and collect money while I changed the keg.

Just as one of the kegs ran out, these three big ass old old old white guys came to the booth, I'm in the truck changing the keg, I tap it, run it through the faucet, then go get ice to cover it. It doesn't take five minutes.
My co- worker pours the beer, gets the money, rinses her hand with anti-bacteria wash, and gets ready for the next customer.
These three old farts had the nerve to say:
"You sure got that white kid working'."

Five minutes! If they came five minutes earlier, or five minutes later, the whole scene would've been reversed.
I was so damned mad I couldn't see straight. They took their beers and walked away. We were both bug eyed and slack jawed at the nerve of 'em.
The woman was wearing one of those belts for a bad back- it was obvious to anyone within a five mile radius why and how our system worked.

reply to post by charles1952


Charles... I typed a long respons to your response and questions... dag on browser reset and lost everything. Let me try to get these words back in place for you.

White people should NEVER feel not welcome to assist with any of the young black youth programs that are available in or near the community that they live. I can assure you that many association directors will welcome you with open arms for a speech if you truly have something important to say, for assistance in any way, or for donations to the non profit programs.

Steve Harvey has two programs that I'm familiar with: Steve Harvey Mentoring Program for Young Men (focusing on HS age students in the Chicago and Dallas areas) and the Steve and Marjorie Foundation with simply focuses on the black/urban youth (white urban children included). The main goal... is to teach the black youth to be respecful, how to grow into great men, husbands, and fathers. Marjorie also has a program for young girls teaching respect of themselves mostly. There are people that are trying to help... these are just two of the well known programs, but many orhter organizations do similar.

These discussions have been going on for quite some time. I think that it is helping the community some. Teenagers will always be teens... they will have hormones, want to have sex, and there lies the risk of pregnancy and children. The discussion isn't hidden from teenagers anymore. These organizations aren't afraid to discuss this with the children. They're not afraid to tell the young men to prepare for the worse if you're having unprotected sex. They'll also say, if it happens, then the kids need to step up and be true young men and ask for the help of the family, continue your education, and feed that baby. Don't run away and leave the girl to deal with the problem. Be in the kid's life regardless... because it needs a family that cares.

Again... don't feel like you can't help. There's always a chance for your assistance... no matter how little or how big. Be sincere and go into it with an open mind. Who knows... you may learn something out of it.

I don't like the race trap. You could type up an encyclopedia of the lives the racial dividing philosophies has taken and the causes behind why it matters, debate about virtues and vices of the practice all day, and still at the end, it's a self-soothing practice that doesn't get anywhere for an eternal mind. At the end of debates you're stuck with your own judgments and the rest of your effort is in deciding why your judgments are sound. They aren't; it's a trap of focus that leads to destruction, because what is mankind going to do but prioritize the difference by his self first, and others second, promoting inequalities? So it's but a rationalization. Mankind can rationalize himself into and out of anything given enough thinking time. Segregationalism origin, theory, and practice into political disciplines and ideology is not worth revisiting.

I have been there, it is a pain to get and an embarrassment to express, I don't want that philosophizing to turn into doctrines and dogma about why this type over here gets more or less than that type over there.

Originally posted by FuZe7
reply to post by SilentKillah

 

Based on the statistical FACT that you're overwhelmingly more likely to be burglarized by a fellow that looks like Trayvon Martin (regardless of the underlying reason for that).

I pointed out in the other thread... I've been robbed twice, once at gunpoint the other my house was broken in to. Both times by white people... the burglar was caught on my neighbor's security cameras. Statistics don't always match reality.

Statistics also tell me that I'm more likely to be identified in a line up and charged with a robbery that I didn't commit simply because I'm black, and the person that was robbed could only see baggy clothing. And that fact skews the statistics that you are relying on with your argument.

reply to post by Tiger5

I am not saying that there are not white people who like to stir up trouble, nor am I saying that African Americans are the only ones who do. There are quiet a few groups out there that tend to do such.

And all of them have a general beef and belief that they should get some form of special treatment due to one thing or another, even at the point where they are protesting, when it is clear that there is no reason for such.

So if I get the last point, you are saying that as a white person, I do not have to fear the law enforcement? Oh no, that is not the case. You see, the reality is that law enforcement, in the cities that I have lived in, profile white people just as much as they profile everyone else, more so than minorities in the the area.

A point in case, I had a truck a long time ago, it got into an accident, yet when I was driving it, as it was, I got pulled over, all cause the police claimed that the vehicle I drove made them think it was from drug use.

Funny you should mention about standing out. If a person stands out in a way that is different than the rest of the normal clinetel, they are going to be watched, if not followed. And can you blame loss prevention? Most of the time the rule of thumb is that anything that is different in the way a person acts and looks, it needs to be investigated. Other questions would be, and this is the true test that should have been done, what if half of the homies did not walk in dressed and acting in a typical black cultural way, would they have been tailed by a store detective?

Too often, the reasons that are being told, ultimately can be trumped by the one thing, personal responsibility. Too often, you hear, and it is not just minorities, but white people, that fail to take it.

And there is one other point. The one thing that is never mentioned, seems to get lost or left out, the majority of the jobs out there that are done, for min wage is not held by any minority, but by white people. Last time I heard, it was 70% of the min wage jobs were held by white people, while those who were considered minorities, were hired in at a higher rate of pay.

Originally posted by kimish
reply to post by SilentKillah

 

Absolutely brother/ sister!!! (just in case lol) It don't matter what you wear, it's all on how you carry yourself. Walk around with your pants down with a scowl and people are gonna thing you're thug life, Walk around with pants down with a smile, bright eyed, people will find you friendly but dressed oddly. lol

Note to black people: you must always be happy...or you will be identified as a thug and possibly shot.


This thread is driving me crazy.

reply to post by SilentKillah

I pointed out in the other thread... I've been robbed twice, once at gunpoint the other my house was broken in to. Both times by white people... the burglar was caught on my neighbor's security cameras. Statistics don't always match reality.

Statistics also tell me that I'm more likely to be identified in a line up and charged with a robbery that I didn't commit simply because I'm black, and the person that was robbed could only see baggy clothing. And that fact skews the statistics that you are relying on with your argument.

You’ve done a lot of complaining in this thread about how bad black people have it and how unfair everything is in America. I’m left wondering….what do you think needs to be done and who is going to do it? Based on how bad you say things are, I just don’t see an answer to these numerous problems….certainly no answer that will please you.

What do you suggest?

Originally posted by wurmryder

Originally posted by kimish
reply to post by SilentKillah

 

Absolutely brother/ sister!!! (just in case lol) It don't matter what you wear, it's all on how you carry yourself. Walk around with your pants down with a scowl and people are gonna thing you're thug life, Walk around with pants down with a smile, bright eyed, people will find you friendly but dressed oddly. lol

Note to black people: you must always be happy...or you will be identified as a thug and possibly shot.


This thread is driving me crazy.

It shouldn't drive you crazy. There are many racists in the world. Many of them wont know they are, as racism is after all based in ignorance.

I find it amusing. We have the OP claiming to be objective yet blatantly presenting subjective views throughout the thread. Racist views by its very definition.

We have others here who use the word racist as though they understand what it means. Even others who believe that it is a reasonable assumption to present the alternative view; how black are racist toward whites. As though this has ever been relevant.

Its the same story here. On ATS there is a hardcore membership of closet racists who without fail flock to threads like this, pretending to be objective and starring up every racist and bigoted comment they find.

The movie Jurassic Park is true; Dinosaurs do flock like birds. A pity they are not yet extinct too. Like another commentator observed; it only until the hardcore racists die off that the progress that younger generations have made in respect of racism can develop unspoiled by the cynical, ignorant and petty mindset of racists.

reply to post by spacedog1973

it only until the hardcore racists die off that the progress that younger generations have made in respect of racism can develop unspoiled by the cynical, ignorant and petty mindset of racists.

What progress made by the younger generations??

Haven’t you been reading the thread? Apparently things are terrible now! There hasn’t been a significant improvement since the civil rights movement. Racism is running rampant and affecting tens of millions!!

It's incredibly disappointing that we haven't moved beyond this flawed concept of human "races." There is truly only one human race (we can all breed with each other, hint,) what we are actually discussing are behavior patterns, which in urban environments include all shades of skin tone. Ever seen a trailer park? Some pretty nasty, methed out people are quite European in ancestry. And the really insulting part is that if you examine some pretty obvious factors you realize that people with African heritage are likely physically superior to Europeans like me (according to a recent PBS doc. African folks are less likely to have neanderthal DNA than Europeans... so we are the real cavemen.)

reply to post by spacedog1973

Sadly, our current youth generation is just as easily brainwashed and polarized as the previous. And we're more dependent on social media, these Facebook addicts can't even put it down while they're at the wheel of a three-ton killing machine. The zombie apocalypse, which people actually seem to be looking forward to, has already happened...

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by spacedog1973

 

it only until the hardcore racists die off that the progress that younger generations have made in respect of racism can develop unspoiled by the cynical, ignorant and petty mindset of racists.

What progress made by the younger generations??

Haven’t you been reading the thread? Apparently things are terrible now! There hasn’t been a significant improvement since the civil rights movement. Racism is running rampant and affecting tens of millions!!

Many young people have friends and genuine friends of all ethnicities, colours and backgrounds. There is also a lot of cross over between their grounds i.e. areas and groups which were previously mainly white, black Hispanic etc now contain a mix of people from other groups.

This is likely to do with schooling and a generally more liberal attitude held by younger people in general.

In respect of this thread, things are of course terrible now for people who experience racism. Personally I don't find it amusing. And of course it would affect tens of millions of people, most likely many more. By 'Running rampant', I assume you mean something so serious that would lead to federal intervention. That of course is the case.

Originally posted by centhwevir1979
reply to post by spacedog1973

 

Sadly, our current youth generation is just as easily brainwashed and polarized as the previous. And we're more dependent on social media, these Facebook addicts can't even put it down while they're at the wheel of a three-ton killing machine. The zombie apocalypse, which people actually seem to be looking forward to, has already happened...

Everyone is as easily brainswashed, but open racism has a power of its own. That is no longer socially accepted, whether it sill goes on or not.

Also, I think its wrong to use the internet to measure anything in particular. Theres a reason why people post racist things online as opposed to in the real world. There is also a demographic of people that are more likely to post regarding some issues than others. This is evidenced by any number of obscure and often minority interests picking up a head of steam and appearing to have wide spread appeal.

Racism in politics is still has a minority following, just like Ron Paul.

reply to post by spacedog1973

Many young people have friends and genuine friends of all ethnicities, colours and backgrounds. There is also a lot of cross over between there grounds i.e. areas and groups which were previously mainly white, black Hispanic etc now contain a mix of people from other groups.

This is likely to do with schooling and a generally more liberal attitude held by younger people in general.

First of all, every young person is liberal until they mature.

As far as your problem with older generation, I judge everyone based on their individual actions rather than race, religion, nationality, etc. I treat everyone with respect yet I’ll probably be called a racist for this post even though it’s the truth.

In US we have the United Negro College Fund, Martin Luther King Day, Black History Month, Cesar Chavez Day, the NAACP, Congressional Black Caucus, BET, Black Chamber of Commerce, Hispanic Chamber of Commerce, over 60 all black colleges, etc. There are tons of organizations that exclude white people, yet if white people did the same thing we’d be called racists. There is a huge double standard in this country and the people benefiting from it are the biggest complainers today!!

What are we to do? Why is race still an issue? Like I suggested in my first post on this thread, how about we (especially the younger generations) STOP talking about race for a while and maybe we'll find there is no big problem! Maybe if we stop buying into the narrative that the country is so unfair we can simply live together as Americans.

reply to post by spacedog1973


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