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Race. We must talk about it, but we can't. Help, please?

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posted on Jul, 17 2013 @ 03:07 PM
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Originally posted by SilentKillah

Originally posted by FuZe7

Originally posted by SilentKillah

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Originally posted by Tiger5
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
 


BFT,

Ya know you have completely missed the point. I asked you to consider what a group of black professional experiences of racism are. The thing about being black is the high visibility factor. You could have two Phdss and be a CEO you are black therefore there is an instantaneous automatic set of assumptions that kick in within the first 30 seconds of contact. This mythical black man with the 2 PHds is probably judged and found lacking BEFORE he can even blurt out “I got 2 Phds”. This is what happened with Zimmerman.


A black man with 2Phds probably doesn't dress like a gangster, while standing in the rain and profiling homes to see whats the best opportunity to break in and steal from. He dresses appropriately, speaks appropriately, and conducts himself appropriately.

Hot air and irrellevant!


Oh... really... dressed like TM? I may not have a PhD YET, but I am in a Doctorate program in Management and have MS degrees in Program Management and Software Engineering. I've already stated in this thread... on a chilly night, you better BET I'll be standing outside smoking a cigarette dressed JUST like TM. You think I'm going to put on a suit to step outside and smoke??? And yes... I do smoke in the rain. Most nicotine addicts do. Oh... and if I'm running low on cigs, why would I drive to a store right around the corner? I'd smoke one walking there, and another walking home! You'd profile me knowing NOTHING about me. Just because I wore a hoody to cover my head from the rain and cold while walking to the store. How ignorant is that... really?


As long as you're not creeping through backyards, or violently attacking people you'll be perfectly fine.
edit on 17-7-2013 by FuZe7 because: (no reason given)


I walk through the woods to go to the store. I cut a path through my back woods that leads to the street. I'm just lucky there are no other houses around for someone to profile me. Or I'd probably be dead on my OWN PROPERTY going off of how "people like you" act!


I apologize in advance for bringing up Trayvon/Zimmerman.

Just want to add that a person who isn't suspicious of a hooded black male walking behind private residences in a community that's recently fallen victim to a string of burglaries by hooded black males who also do suspicious things like walking behind private residences would be completely naive and foolish.




posted on Jul, 17 2013 @ 03:08 PM
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Originally posted by SilentKillah
Oh... really... dressed like TM? I may not have a PhD YET, but I am in a Doctorate program in Management and have MS degrees in Program Management and Software Engineering. I've already stated in this thread... on a chilly night, you better BET I'll be standing outside smoking a cigarette dressed JUST like TM. You think I'm going to put on a suit to step outside and smoke??? And yes... I do smoke in the rain. Most nicotine addicts do. Oh... and if I'm running low on cigs, why would I drive to a store right around the corner? I'd smoke one walking there, and another walking home! You'd profile me knowing NOTHING about me. Just because I wore a hoody to cover my head from the rain and cold while walking to the store. How ignorant is that... really?


So you think it's unfair that Middle Eastern looking men get a little extra scrutiny at the airport? You don't see any benefit to profiling? Should they waste the resources checking little old black ladies (or white, Asian, Hispanic, etc) rather than giving a little extra scrutiny to people who fit the profile of a terrorist?

I'm not talking about violating anyone's rights. I'm just saying a little extra attention. That seems unreasonable to you??



posted on Jul, 17 2013 @ 03:10 PM
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reply to post by charles1952
 




The Martin- Zimmerman episode was not about race as much as it was about gun control.
The race thing wasn't really a question although if you are black you are going to see it that way but then I wonder, did you also feel the OJ Simpson verdict was based on race? No, this case was about the stand your ground laws.

Without a NOT GUILTY verdict, the Stand Your Ground laws would not have been called into question. Now they are and chances are they will be rescinded or redefined. Those peculiar laws and their definitions are what allowed Zimmerman to justifiably "get away with murder" as some people, including myself, see it.
edit on 17-7-2013 by Loveaduck because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 17 2013 @ 03:19 PM
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reply to post by seabag
 



Originally posted by seabag

Originally posted by SilentKillah
Oh... really... dressed like TM? I may not have a PhD YET, but I am in a Doctorate program in Management and have MS degrees in Program Management and Software Engineering. I've already stated in this thread... on a chilly night, you better BET I'll be standing outside smoking a cigarette dressed JUST like TM. You think I'm going to put on a suit to step outside and smoke??? And yes... I do smoke in the rain. Most nicotine addicts do. Oh... and if I'm running low on cigs, why would I drive to a store right around the corner? I'd smoke one walking there, and another walking home! You'd profile me knowing NOTHING about me. Just because I wore a hoody to cover my head from the rain and cold while walking to the store. How ignorant is that... really?


So you think it's unfair that Middle Eastern looking men get a little extra scrutiny at the airport? You don't see any benefit to profiling? Should they waste the resources checking little old black ladies (or white, Asian, Hispanic, etc) rather than giving a little extra scrutiny to people who fit the profile of a terrorist?

I'm not talking about violating anyone's rights. I'm just saying a little extra attention. That seems unreasonable to you??


Of course it's unfair. Terrorists can be of any race. And if you're talking about Muslim extremists, they can be of any race too. There are white Muslims in the radical crowd. Living in London makes it impossible not to know that, but many are too lazy to acknowledge it.

I've got no criminal record, no warnings or anything. I don't wear hoodies, but I'm 6ft 1, black and have dreadlocks, which is apparently pretty much "asking" for profiling where I live. It's a miracle that I've never been searched before. Listening to the stuff members of the family have had to go through at times is just depressing.



posted on Jul, 17 2013 @ 03:19 PM
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reply to post by seabag
 



Originally posted by seabag

Originally posted by SilentKillah
Oh... really... dressed like TM? I may not have a PhD YET, but I am in a Doctorate program in Management and have MS degrees in Program Management and Software Engineering. I've already stated in this thread... on a chilly night, you better BET I'll be standing outside smoking a cigarette dressed JUST like TM. You think I'm going to put on a suit to step outside and smoke??? And yes... I do smoke in the rain. Most nicotine addicts do. Oh... and if I'm running low on cigs, why would I drive to a store right around the corner? I'd smoke one walking there, and another walking home! You'd profile me knowing NOTHING about me. Just because I wore a hoody to cover my head from the rain and cold while walking to the store. How ignorant is that... really?


So you think it's unfair that Middle Eastern looking men get a little extra scrutiny at the airport? You don't see any benefit to profiling? Should they waste the resources checking little old black ladies (or white, Asian, Hispanic, etc) rather than giving a little extra scrutiny to people who fit the profile of a terrorist?

I'm not talking about violating anyone's rights. I'm just saying a little extra attention. That seems unreasonable to you??


Of course it's unfair. Terrorists can be of any race. And if you're talking about Muslim extremists, they can be of any race too. There are white Muslims in the radical crowd. Living in London makes it impossible not to know that, but many are too lazy to acknowledge it.

I've got no criminal record, no warnings or anything. I don't wear hoodies, but I'm 6ft 1, black and have dreadlocks, which is apparently pretty much "asking" for profiling where I live. It's a miracle that I've never been searched before. Listening to the stuff members of the family have had to go through at times is just depressing.
edit on 17-7-2013 by ihavenoaccount because: Verry sorry mods, please delete these posts... not sure what happened...



posted on Jul, 17 2013 @ 03:19 PM
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reply to post by seabag
 



Originally posted by seabag

Originally posted by SilentKillah
Oh... really... dressed like TM? I may not have a PhD YET, but I am in a Doctorate program in Management and have MS degrees in Program Management and Software Engineering. I've already stated in this thread... on a chilly night, you better BET I'll be standing outside smoking a cigarette dressed JUST like TM. You think I'm going to put on a suit to step outside and smoke??? And yes... I do smoke in the rain. Most nicotine addicts do. Oh... and if I'm running low on cigs, why would I drive to a store right around the corner? I'd smoke one walking there, and another walking home! You'd profile me knowing NOTHING about me. Just because I wore a hoody to cover my head from the rain and cold while walking to the store. How ignorant is that... really?


So you think it's unfair that Middle Eastern looking men get a little extra scrutiny at the airport? You don't see any benefit to profiling? Should they waste the resources checking little old black ladies (or white, Asian, Hispanic, etc) rather than giving a little extra scrutiny to people who fit the profile of a terrorist?

I'm not talking about violating anyone's rights. I'm just saying a little extra attention. That seems unreasonable to you??


Of course it's unfair. Terrorists can be of any race. And if you're talking about Muslim extremists, they can be of any race too. There are white Muslims in the radical crowd. Living in London makes it impossible not to know that, but many are too lazy to acknowledge it.

I've got no criminal record, no warnings or anything. I don't wear hoodies, but I'm 6ft 1, black and have dreadlocks, which is apparently pretty much "asking" for profiling where I live. It's a miracle that I've never been searched before. Listening to the stuff members of the family have had to go through at times is just depressing.
edit on 17-7-2013 by ihavenoaccount because: Man this is annoying? Please delete these dupe-posts?



posted on Jul, 17 2013 @ 03:19 PM
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reply to post by seabag
 



Originally posted by seabag

Originally posted by SilentKillah
Oh... really... dressed like TM? I may not have a PhD YET, but I am in a Doctorate program in Management and have MS degrees in Program Management and Software Engineering. I've already stated in this thread... on a chilly night, you better BET I'll be standing outside smoking a cigarette dressed JUST like TM. You think I'm going to put on a suit to step outside and smoke??? And yes... I do smoke in the rain. Most nicotine addicts do. Oh... and if I'm running low on cigs, why would I drive to a store right around the corner? I'd smoke one walking there, and another walking home! You'd profile me knowing NOTHING about me. Just because I wore a hoody to cover my head from the rain and cold while walking to the store. How ignorant is that... really?


So you think it's unfair that Middle Eastern looking men get a little extra scrutiny at the airport? You don't see any benefit to profiling? Should they waste the resources checking little old black ladies (or white, Asian, Hispanic, etc) rather than giving a little extra scrutiny to people who fit the profile of a terrorist?

I'm not talking about violating anyone's rights. I'm just saying a little extra attention. That seems unreasonable to you??


Of course it's unfair. Terrorists can be of any race. And if you're talking about Muslim extremists, they can be of any race too. There are white Muslims in the radical crowd. Living in London makes it impossible not to know that, but many are too lazy to acknowledge it.

I've got no criminal record, no warnings or anything. I don't wear hoodies, but I'm 6ft 1, black and have dreadlocks, which is apparently pretty much "asking" for profiling where I live. It's a miracle that I've never been searched before. Listening to the stuff members of the family have had to go through at times is just depressing.
edit on 17-7-2013 by ihavenoaccount because: Please delete?



posted on Jul, 17 2013 @ 03:19 PM
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reply to post by seabag
 



Originally posted by seabag

Originally posted by SilentKillah
Oh... really... dressed like TM? I may not have a PhD YET, but I am in a Doctorate program in Management and have MS degrees in Program Management and Software Engineering. I've already stated in this thread... on a chilly night, you better BET I'll be standing outside smoking a cigarette dressed JUST like TM. You think I'm going to put on a suit to step outside and smoke??? And yes... I do smoke in the rain. Most nicotine addicts do. Oh... and if I'm running low on cigs, why would I drive to a store right around the corner? I'd smoke one walking there, and another walking home! You'd profile me knowing NOTHING about me. Just because I wore a hoody to cover my head from the rain and cold while walking to the store. How ignorant is that... really?


So you think it's unfair that Middle Eastern looking men get a little extra scrutiny at the airport? You don't see any benefit to profiling? Should they waste the resources checking little old black ladies (or white, Asian, Hispanic, etc) rather than giving a little extra scrutiny to people who fit the profile of a terrorist?

I'm not talking about violating anyone's rights. I'm just saying a little extra attention. That seems unreasonable to you??


Of course it's unfair. Terrorists can be of any race. And if you're talking about Muslim extremists, they can be of any race too. There are white Muslims in the radical crowd. Living in London makes it impossible not to know that, but many are too lazy to acknowledge it.

I've got no criminal record, no warnings or anything. I don't wear hoodies, but I'm 6ft 1, black and have dreadlocks, which is apparently pretty much "asking" for profiling where I live. It's a miracle that I've never been searched before. Listening to the stuff members of the family have had to go through at times is just depressing.
edit on 17-7-2013 by ihavenoaccount because: What the hell just happened?! Please can someone delete all these posts? Pretty sure it wasn't me... :/



posted on Jul, 17 2013 @ 03:26 PM
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reply to post by SilentKillah
 


Absolutely brother/ sister!!! (just in case lol) It don't matter what you wear, it's all on how you carry yourself. Walk around with your pants down with a scowl and people are gonna thing you're thug life, Walk around with pants down with a smile, bright eyed, people will find you friendly but dressed oddly. lol



posted on Jul, 17 2013 @ 03:29 PM
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reply to post by FuZe7
 


I don't remeber there being any indication of what race the previous burglars were. Nobody was caught was there? It's only an assumption that they burglars were black as far as I understand. I also thought that the other loitering individuals which Zimmerman called the cops on were Latino.



posted on Jul, 17 2013 @ 03:38 PM
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reply to post by SilentKillah
 


Was the neigbourhood black or white? I don't know and ask this simply because black burglars are most active in their own communities.



posted on Jul, 17 2013 @ 03:39 PM
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The $64K question that I have tried to get people to consider is what are black people feeling at this moment? If the average ATSer were black what would they be feeling when they heard of the killing and subsequent aquital? How did they feel when Trayvon was being described?

The simple fact is that Black America remembers the long history of racially motivated murder and racially motivated miscarriages of justice. The fact that White America now bleats that it is post racial and racism does not exist is beside the point and errant nonsense. All that is being done is that white on black racism is being denied when the numerically smaller and less significant incidents of Black on white racism get trumpeted to the high heavens.

Justice may be blind but she has huge ears and can be swayed but the loudest voices!

edit on 17-7-2013 by Tiger5 because: Spelling



posted on Jul, 17 2013 @ 03:40 PM
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A true discussion means, in my mind, that people are able to express themselves honestly
reply to post by charles1952
 


Right... but how can we have a honest discussion when some ATSers are starting it with brain-warped, bigot assertions that translate to things like "Hitler was our hero" or "Blacks are violent criminal inferiors"?

There really isn't much PC on ATS... given all the dumb, horrible threads that have been appearing on front page for years. Tobe banned or censored because you insult or reduce all those who do not fit your worldviews doesn't make you a victim of "political correctness"... that's just DISRESPECT.



posted on Jul, 17 2013 @ 03:45 PM
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...so you want my opinion about races?

They don't exist.

Racial categories are a creation of politics and religion, in order to separate families, classes and other groups from others. There are no such such as white, black, yellow or red skin. Those are all proven to be conceptions originating from imperialism and colonization, from the cultural shock between people of different world regions, from radically different climatic and geological context.

Our bodies have different ways of adapting to the environment and social conditions, through the generations. The concept of race is derelict and used solely for political ends. Of one group using it to submit or divide another.
edit on 17/7/13 by Echtelion because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 17 2013 @ 03:59 PM
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reply to post by sealing
 

Dear sealing,

This thread is doing remarkably well, I'm sorry I was away for so long.

Apparently I created a misunderstanding with the video I posted. (I took it from another thread.)


I understand the intention Charles, But to lay out how hypocritical you think the situation is because the African American man in your last video has a foul mouth is not helping. I could find a hundred videos of racist slurs hate speech and threats being spewed by white people. And to say it would be torture to listen to Al Sharpton and Jackson is not exactly a dialog opener either.

My point is there may be better ways to start a conversation than saying look how awful some black people act.


I seriously have to rethink my writing style. Here's what I was thinking. Not that I thought the Black man was acting awfully, but that he had the courage and freedom to take a very unpopular position. The Black man in the video was upset and and was able to criticize Blacks for their behavior in a specific circumstance.

Criticisms of Whites for being racist occur frequently and are presented by every race. Criticizing Blacks is heavily frowned upon and gets you at least the label of "Racist," if not fired, or worse. If you happen to be a Black doing the criticizing, then the name you're called is "Oreo," or "Uncle Tom."

I could not have said those things on ATS. I'm glad someone who is Black is able to serve as a "loyal opposition," or "conscience."

As far as listening to 8 hours of lecture being torture, I was saying that if one side thought that lecturing the other side was a discussion, I'd want no part of it.

With respect,
Charles1952



posted on Jul, 17 2013 @ 04:06 PM
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reply to post by charles1952
 
Don't feel bad Charles! I wouldn't want to listen to any long winded speeches by Jackson or Sharpton either! Just the tones and inflections they both use when speech making (Sunday morning preacher doing an overtime sermon) drives me batty. Jackson has used that tone so often over the years that it has become his permanent speech pattern. I liked it much better when he used to speak in a more normal voice.



posted on Jul, 17 2013 @ 04:24 PM
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I don't know whether this is going off-topic, but a poster who is no longer with us asked what I would like the discussion to be about. I didn't have a great answer, but I think I stumbled across one a few moments ago.


The leaders of what used to be a civil rights movement want to talk about everything but the main problem afflicting black people in the United States. That is the breakdown of the black family.

Just 29% of black women over the age of 15 were married in 2010, according to the Census Bureau’s comprehensive Current Population Survey. That compares to 54% of white women. At all ages, black women were about half as likely to be married as white women. That is an astonishing number.

The percentage of out-of-wedlock births has risen from 18% in 1980 to 40% in 2010. 29% of white births were non-marital, against 73% for black births. That’s nearly three-quarters of all black births.

Collateral Costs details the concentration of incarceration among men, the young, the uneducated and African Americans. One in 87 working-aged white men is in prison or jail compared with 1 in 36 Hispanic men and 1 in 12 African American men. Today, more African American men aged 20 to 34 without a high school diploma or GED are behind bars (37 percent) than are employed (26 percent).

The report also shows more than 2.7 million minor children now have a parent behind bars, or 1 in every 28. For African American children the number is 1 in 9, a rate that has more than quadrupled in the past 25 years.

The worst oppressors of young black men are older black men who abandon their children. And the second-worst oppressors of young black men are other young black men. 94% of black murder victims are killed by blacks. The accelerating decline of the black family portends a much worse situation in the future.

Why have civil rights organizations and black clergy wagered their reputations on the Zimmerman case? It is hard to avoid the conclusion that the issues that really concern African-Americans simply are too painful to discuss. Five years after the ultimate boost to self-esteem — the election of the first black president — things are getting worse faster. If black leaders — from Barack Obama and Eric Holder on down — can’t talk about the real problems, the prospects for the future are frightening indeed.


pjmedia.com...

I don't think this problem is caused by race as much as by culture, but regardless, I would think we could all agree that there should be fewer out-of wedlock births, more two parent families, more people with High School diplomas, and fewer behind bars.

That's a discussion Blacks and Whites should be able to have without trying to introduce race flaming.

With respect,
Charles1952



posted on Jul, 17 2013 @ 04:27 PM
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Originally posted by seabag

Originally posted by SilentKillah
Oh... really... dressed like TM? I may not have a PhD YET, but I am in a Doctorate program in Management and have MS degrees in Program Management and Software Engineering. I've already stated in this thread... on a chilly night, you better BET I'll be standing outside smoking a cigarette dressed JUST like TM. You think I'm going to put on a suit to step outside and smoke??? And yes... I do smoke in the rain. Most nicotine addicts do. Oh... and if I'm running low on cigs, why would I drive to a store right around the corner? I'd smoke one walking there, and another walking home! You'd profile me knowing NOTHING about me. Just because I wore a hoody to cover my head from the rain and cold while walking to the store. How ignorant is that... really?


So you think it's unfair that Middle Eastern looking men get a little extra scrutiny at the airport? You don't see any benefit to profiling? Should they waste the resources checking little old black ladies (or white, Asian, Hispanic, etc) rather than giving a little extra scrutiny to people who fit the profile of a terrorist?

I'm not talking about violating anyone's rights. I'm just saying a little extra attention. That seems unreasonable to you??


I think that Middle Easterners are treated equal at the airport. Why do I think that? Take a look at what TSA does to normal people on youtube. If you want to hear a personal case, try being in uniform, orders in my hand, and still being asked to go to a side room to wait for someone to come ask me questions like I'm a criminal. If they're treated any different than the treatment that average people... and those in uniform can get, then yes, I see it as unfair and complete BS.



posted on Jul, 17 2013 @ 04:45 PM
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Originally posted by littled16
reply to post by charles1952
 
Don't feel bad Charles! I wouldn't want to listen to any long winded speeches by Jackson or Sharpton either! Just the tones and inflections they both use when speech making (Sunday morning preacher doing an overtime sermon) drives me batty. Jackson has used that tone so often over the years that it has become his permanent speech pattern. I liked it much better when he used to speak in a more normal voice.



The fact that they're extremist gets to me. Yes... a black man can see when other black people take things WAY too far with the race issue. I'm simply here to promote the fact that you can't judge a book by it's cover. I can certainly say that I am this exact case. My twin brother as well who happens to be a general physician and pediatrician.

We look, act, dance, walk, talk, and more like every other black person in the DC area. We go to majority black clubs when a friend of ours is celebrating their birthday, we wear baggy pants (although we've never had the Little Wayne skinny jean butt showing all over the place look). We both wear dreadlocks, we're 6' tall, we weigh roughly 175 (he's a little bigger than I). But we're still good people... and I'd say better people than some on this site like whoever in another thread stated that he'd shoot someone if he were punched in the face because he considers that a felony assault
. Have that racist character all you want, but you never know who may be treating you and your child when you go to the doctor. You never know how the person who's winning numerous quarterly and yearly awards for being the best organizational manager and team leader. It could be my brother... the same guy you see outside of work and call a thug. And it could be me!



posted on Jul, 17 2013 @ 04:52 PM
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Originally posted by charles1952
I don't know whether this is going off-topic, but a poster who is no longer with us asked what I would like the discussion to be about. I didn't have a great answer, but I think I stumbled across one a few moments ago.


The leaders of what used to be a civil rights movement want to talk about everything but the main problem afflicting black people in the United States. That is the breakdown of the black family.

...


pjmedia.com...

I don't think this problem is caused by race as much as by culture, but regardless, I would think we could all agree that there should be fewer out-of wedlock births, more two parent families, more people with High School diplomas, and fewer behind bars.

That's a discussion Blacks and Whites should be able to have without trying to introduce race flaming.

With respect,
Charles1952


Thanks Charles. I deleted most of the text only because I wanted to use this to ensure that you know which post I'm addressing. However, the breakdown of the black male and family structure (meaning the attitude of not raising kids and taking care of his family) is talked about very often in fact. It may not be your Jackson and Sharpton, but it's your Steve Harvey, and many other smaller but known black PhD recipients. I think that the people that do discuss these things have a more clear pathway to reach the audience. Younger generations hear Jackson and Sharpton and turn the radio. Hear Steve Harvey, and they listen because he might just tell a good joke in the end.




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