It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
If you go to the website and click on "Labels" and choose "Anti-Languages", you can browse and see the posts under that category. The paragraphs in English, and the bibliography, both give you a fair complete set of articles, theses, and papers related to private languages, antilanguages, agrammaticalisation theory, the grammar of silence, etc. You can also click on "Books by Label", on the top bar, and look for "Anti-language". Or use this link here: www.forgottenlanguages.org... I cannot give you a ready-made definition of what an antilanguage is or is not, much as you cannot give to me a definition on what a language is or is not. A Google search for the term 'language definition' gives you 460,000 results. The search for the term "anti-language definition" yields just 74 results. The definition of anti-language in Wikipedia goes as "An anti-language is the language of a social group which develops as a means of preventing people from outside the group understanding it". It is a very poor definition which actually applies to jargon or private languages, even to technolects or sacred languages, but not to anti-languages. For translation avoidance I can give you an explanation, though. It is the use of techniques to avoid a given language to be translated into another language. Much as you can avoid people from visiting your web, by IP-blocking (you can even block a whole country), you have the right to avoid your texts to be translated. It is your right. You also have the right to counter those content-based advertising techniques, by simply using an antilanguage which prevents the computer to scan your text, extract some keywords, and display a contents-related advertisement. This also acts as an effective counter-spamming technique. Finally, much as you can use Google Translate to translate a given web page written in a language unknown to you, you can use your own translation system to translate into your native language the contents of, say, our web site (which is what we do). In essence, we are countering the abuse by third parties of your website, something that will become a serious issue in the future. Hope now is clear. 1 person has voted this message useful
In their study, strictly linguistic, "Un enigma Esclarecido: el origen del Basque", Martin concluded that the Dogon (spoken in Mali) is originally from the Basque language. In their words, "el ingles, today considered one of the oldest language in Europe, is not, in its origin, European, but African"
Philologist this research, which has a devoted twelve years, is based on a comparison between the country and the Dogon, which is spoken in Mali, in the area of sub-Saharan West Africa, by around 250,000 people. As he himself has explained, have treated the study of comparative linguistics, has been addressed as both the structure of the vocabulary of the language. The structural comparison with three of the fourteen dialects Dogo Basque "showed the same exact order of words in the sentence" insure Ruiz.
Hello, I hope you still actively check these messages. I was wondering what exactly is the website forgottenlanguages.org? How long have you personally worked with the members there? Would you mind answering a few more questions?
Matthew, hi Email me directly to the designated email address above, & I’ll consider your questions. Thank you. William
Ayndryl 31, 2010, 10:08
Hmm... but the idea was not to generate a cryptic language of some sort.
The idea was this:
- to analyze syntactic and morphological drift for a given set of
languages, and to explore whether such a drift produces a semantic drift
In order to do so, we designed a software, called Nodespaces, that acts
as a genetic algorithm that takes as input a given language and then, by
stimulated annealing, subjects the language to a set of stochastic
rules. If we consider the language as a complex adaptive system, by
changing the boundary conditions the language is forced to adapt itself,
thus changing its syntactic structure and its morphological internal
Obviously, a boundary condition was this: change as you wish, but the
change must yield a syntactically and phonetically coherent language.
The result shows that language is also a dissipative structure, one that
can finally derive in a total colapse of communication, unless you
impose some restrictive superstructure upon it. We found it was then
better to introduce the self-organizing constraints into the system.
And the experiment shows that in order for you to obtain such a
language, the system must, of necessity, include the speaker.
Though it seems obvious that language and speaker are inseparable,
sometimes linguists forget this, in particular when they study ancient
languages. We wanted to find an answer to this question: can we think of
the Russian language regardeless of the Russian speaker? That is: can
anyone speak Russian without feeling Russian?
So far, the answer is "No". Sure you can be a Lakota. Sure you can learn
Russian. Sure you can get a total mastering of the Russian language. But
you will never "feel" like a Russian. So the question arises: what do we
mean by being Russian or Lakota? And if there was just one
protolanguage, what made a given speaker to start feeling like a
Russian? The landscape? The environment? A genetic mutation? A specific
Happy new year to you all!
"Translation shall cease" project.
A language experiment - less than 50% of page copied. Emphasis added. Edited for readability.
Ayndryl Январь 10, 2011, 10:04
Kbas and antbez:
"Feeling Russian" in this context means this: Russian speakers have the words "dusa" and "sud'ba", for which no translation exists in English. Translating them into "soul" and "fate" is just a rough approximation. Only a native speaker of Russian can fully grasp the meaning of "dusa". Only a native speaker of Hebrew can grasp the full meaning of "memrah" or "ruach". Only a native speaker of Lakota can fully understand the word "wakantanga". And all of them can easily understand quantum mechanics. This means humans are also complex adaptative systems.
There are no "genuine" Russian (or any other language) words. There are genuine Russian (or some other) feelings. This is so because you shape your language to talk about reality and what you feel when facing that reality, but speakers do live in quite different areas on this planet and they experience quite different "microrealities", therefore it is but normal to see differences in how they perceive reality and, thus, in how they name those experiences. For a Lakota there is no "sud'ba" at all. He never experienced the need of it, thus no need to name it.
We are not interested in proto-languages. We are interested in "proto-humans as they spoke" in order to grasp "post-humans as they will speak".
It is extremely easy to "invent" a language from scratch. However, as time passes, that language will evolve. And it happens it evolves in a quite specific and predictable way. The final state is always the same for any given language. This evolution is proto-language indpendent. We are more interested in tomorrow's language.
The length of the sentences, the speed at which you can talk a language, the phonology, the order of the sentence, all this is limited and constrained by your cognitive structure and your neurological setup. All languages will finally converge in time into one and the same language, provided reality remains the same.
But speakers, their languages, and reality itself are dynamical systems, always changing. These are non-linearties that modify the language and your cognitive structure in radical ways. The net result is this: new languages emerge, others they die.
So finally, we are investigating the state equation of language, assessing whether it is a Markov process, an Ising-spin process, a fractal process, or whatever. This is key for us in order to make both backward and forward language analysis.
The languages you happened to spot in our blog are final or intermediate states for a given scenario we are currently working on. The one you thought to be Welsh is called Weddag-2075: we fed the system with Welsh, supressed the Normand contribution, added some Goidelic patterns, and left the system evolve assigning specific value to the Beta exponent of an Ising system to see what happens. Beta = 2.075 in this particular scenario.
The language called Alashi-1330 is a semitic one with bi-radical nouns and IE SVO typology with a Lyapunov exponent of 1.33. And so on.
Actually you can establish some isomorphism between language L1 and L2, though in general this does not work, as you correctly stated. However, it is "attractors" and "homology" what we are talking here. As you know, it is imposible to find the original seed state S(0) of a Markov process given the final state S(f) by virtue of the stochastic nature of the process. But it might be of interest to you that, regardless of the initial state (that is, language) you arrive to quite stable (and beautiful) consistent configurations (like Eddag-1240 or Elyam-2200).
Finally, the configurations you arrive at are all languages. You can use them as you use your native ones, you can use them to describe reality or write poetry. What you see in our blog are the entries of the users where they announce the translation of the relevant books into a given generated language.
Again, we are not interested in "conlangs". We are interested in fractal linguistics.
A language experiment . Less than 50% of page copied. Emphasis added. Edited for readability.
originally posted by: Annmouse
a reply to: aHEMagain
I have only just noticed this thread written by Kantzveldt on his conclusions about FL -
Dancing with Aliens
It seems some people on the thread have come to the conclusion that FL are going to use their knowledge for sinister means.
Although I agree with Kantzveldt on some things. I don't agree, at this time, that they are some kind of secret government project. From what I have been able to find out about some of the members, they seem to be a nice bunch of people, intelligent, rational and concerned for our species, the planet and who governs it. They don't seem like the type of people that would consciously work for a government to, i don't know, take over the planet, or mind control people. Maybe I am wrong but, I dont feel like I am.
...do you have some reason to suspect the countdown is to the completion of a Nodespaces simulation.
In order to do so, we designed a software, called Nodespaces, that acts as a genetic algorithm that takes as input a given language and then, by stimulated annealing, subjects the language to a set of stochastic rules.
If we consider the language as a complex adaptive system, by changing the boundary conditions the language is forced to adapt itself, thus changing its syntactic structure and its morphological internal structure.
originally posted by: aHEMagain
I will say that Andryl seemed to go out of his/her way to find places discussing the site, and to clear up confusion about the project. That implies at least an interest in others opinions of the site, and a desire to be open about the project, within the limits allowed by the projects nature.
voiceofthecielago, the site is still coming up for me. Also, is your handle derived from the birds in Frank Herbert's Dune?