Why do Christians believe in a God that has "chosen" the Jews

Originally posted by Redarguo
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

I know what a straw-man is but sure use it to avoid the issue. stawman much?

You said what I claimed was not the word of god, the bible says it is. so am I correct or is the bible wrong. Its a legitimate question I thought you were saying that the bible is exaggerated, your not being to clear and evasive.

edit on 3-7-2013 by Redarguo because: (no reason given)

No, I said you grossly exaggerated and misrepresented it.

Really, you need to focus and deal with what I actually say. It's nearly impossible to have a dialogue when you can't do this.

reply to post by Deetermined


I think there are a number of flaws in the concept that the Jews were God's first people. Looking at the blood lines apparently their predominant blood type is AB which came much later that Group O man's oldest type etc I am not sure where the Ashkanazi fit in but it does not come from the first people. If Adam and Eve were the first then the Jews should have an alignment to them, however their history doesn't equate to the time-line.

Their history is an odd one. They trace people like Abraham (there is no proof of his existence) whom clearly was not Jewish as their Father and the beginning of their bible and the concept of a God is actually borrowed from other people's myths. They are a self invented people making self invented claims. So much of the biblical tales are either so far fetched, eg you cannot wander a smallish desert for 30 years without navigating yourself out and to survive there for that length of time with the old, children, animals etc why would anyone want to do that?

As God has never been seen or heard we have no proof of his existence and consequently no proof of their claim to be his chosen people. Its more likely down to pure arrogance that they made the claim in the first place and ingenuity in getting themselves educated and in charge of the media, banks and being probably in virtually every government in the world that makes major decisions that enables them as a group to make their claims and give themselves a country of their own choosing and a history that is expected to be taught in every school. Pity their behaviour in Israel doesn't match some of the high ideals often associated with religious people.

The problem with 'God' is that for the simple minded its the embodiment of hope, but when one looks at the age of the universe, our solar system and planet and all its upheavals, the creatures before the dinosaurs, the dinosaur era through time to today, God would have to have lived over 3 billion years and be able to keep track of X billion people for every minute of the day. Also God's personality according to the Jews is not a kind, loving and forgiving Father-figure he"s a warmonger, land grabber, punisher, murderer and expects to influence every part of man's life to the point of man loving him above all else yet he also has the human failing of psychotic jealousy. Is that really acceptable thinking especially for us today?

As to why Christians believe in a God that chose the Jews, I put it down to the deliberate conditioning of all religions onto the kids during their formative years. I don't think the desert religions should be taught to children especially if one actually reads the bible from cover to cover because its not for an innocent mind. Children accept what a grow-up tells them without questioning it, so the nonsense is planted and never thought about unless the topic of religion comes up and- it use to be considered rude to discuss religion and politics for very obvious reasons. What I questioned as a kid, my parents never considered to question so the conditioning is wearing thin for people who are not forced into religion every week and are free to choose and questionl.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by Redarguo
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

I know what a straw-man is but sure use it to avoid the issue. stawman much?

You said what I claimed was not the word of god, the bible says it is. so am I correct or is the bible wrong. Its a legitimate question I thought you were saying that the bible is exaggerated, your not being to clear and evasive.

edit on 3-7-2013 by Redarguo because: (no reason given)

No, I said you grossly exaggerated and misrepresented it.

Really, you need to focus and deal with what I actually say. It's nearly impossible to have a dialogue when you can't do this.

In what way, if anything I initially understated what the bible says.

reply to post by Shiloh7


Regardless of what you think of their past claims, the prophecies that they have written are unfolding before our eyes.

I have often pondered this conundrum myself, and cannot understand how such nonsense could be so faithfully followed based on the re-interpreted writings of both the Judaic and Christian texts.

Metaphors, Innuendo, Riddles and the like serve only to cause me to question what little faith I have left .

If I have to rely on another to explain the meaning of something written in such a confusing way, which can be interpreted in so many ways by so many different people, it begins to appear the text was written by men to be muddled in order to remain a mystery to be understood only by the elite of any one religion/sect/cult.

Talking to a religious scholar is akin to talking to a lawyer.

The term Lawyer sounds too much like the word "Liar" to be accidental.

There is a reason impressionable young people are targeted for this type of indoctrination, the same reason they
are targeted by the military when young.

I need to talk to the big guy, not a middle man, before I even begin to believe in anything again.

Originally posted by ThinkingHuman


I am shocked because for all intents and purposes, every Christian is really a Jew.

You are correct. Christianity is theologically the son of Judaism.

That is is easy, the Jews were God's chosen people for centuries, even when they went off the rails morally as a nation they still were his favorites and he disciplined them to get them to come back to him. It was only when the Jewish clergy orchestrated the killing of his son, Jesus that this special relationship ended. An exclamation mark was put on that within a generation of them doing that, when Jerusalem was wiped out in 70 AD. And the last sovereign Jewish holdout Masada was ended a few years later. Now no nation or nationality has a favored status, I would only say that the English language in the 20th century was perhaps used to spread the message and is favored like Greek was back in the first century. But it is the base other languages and information is translated from. And in the 21st century it is irrelevant as software makes it possible to put out bible based information quickly and efficiently in all major languages.

Acts 10:34 after the Jews lost there special status this statement was made by a Jew and Apostle, acknowledging the change that was happening.

Then Peter said, "Now I understand that God doesn't play favorites.

The term for non-Jews is Goy, which is basically akin to cattle. I imagine the chosenites see themselves as the farmers, fattening the Christians up before they decide to put them down.

Jesus Christ might be the most lied about man in history, well second most lied about man.

Judeo-Christian (sic) values, rofl.

Originally posted by octotom
reply to post by ThinkingHuman

 

Gentile" is the Jews' derogatory term for Christians (and believers of other religions)

It's not derogatory. Gentile comes from the word Goiim, which means "nations", those that aren't Jewish.

I would like to gently correct you. Goy/goyim does mean nations, but it does not mean "non-Jewish". It is contextual. For instance, Jacob and Esau were called two goyim in the womb...two nations. Israel is frequently called goy kadosh - "a holy nation". Judah is even referenced as a goy, but I don't have the source handy.

The makers of the Catholic Vulgate version translated the Hebrew word goyim (“nations”) and the Greek word ethnoi (“nations”) with the Latin word gentilis which has the same meaning. That was then anglicised into “gentiles” and copied into English bible-versions.

Today, many are under the impression that "Gentiles" means non-Jewish. From that error, we get many of the OP's confusions and questions. We have completely overlooked the fact that "nations" (goyim, ethnos, gentilis) only has referential meaning from the context. The English word "Gentiles" is a fabrication. It should be exterminated from all bibles and replaced with the proper english word nations. Nowhere else in any manuscript, letter or book are any of these three words translated as "Gentiles" except for the Bible. All it does is interferes with our understanding and furthers the myth that the "jews are God's chosen".

The made up english word "Gentiles" today has the meaning non-Jewish because the Jews keep saying it and the world mimics it. It never used too because the English word didn't even exist until like 400 years ago. Someone then reading the Latin version read and understood the word gentilis to mean NATIONS, not non-Jewish. So therefore the old trick is used, which is to change the meaning of a word over time. Reading the word gay in a book written 80 years ago is a good example. Our minds substitute homosexual in place of happy. This is exactly what many today do with the word 'gentiles' - they hear non-Jewish instead of nations each and every time that they try to read scripture. Our minds are then on the things of men and we keep reasoning from that understanding. Then things don't make sense or they buy the lies of men who are all too happy for them to believe it. Who in this world has a vested interest in convincing the world that the Jews are God's chosen people?

Who the word nations refers to can only be determined by context in each passage.

Originally posted by NavyDoc

Originally posted by ThinkingHuman


I am shocked because for all intents and purposes, every Christian is really a Jew.

You are correct. Christianity is theologically the son of Judaism.

And you are simply repeating a falsehood that has been given to you.

Let's go to Genesis and see what even it declares.

Adam - Man
Seth - Appointed
Enosh – Mortal
Kenan – Sorrow
Mahalalel – The blessed God
Jared – Shall come down
Enoch – Teaching
Methuselah – His death shall bring
Lamech – Despairing
Noah – Comfort and rest

Lo and behold, it declares the gospel. Which the modern day religion of Judaism rejects because....it is a religion based upon the teachings of men.

To answer the OP

Only those of FAITH(Christ and those in Christ) are heirs to the promises made to Abraham

Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

reply to post by ThinkingHuman

how many Gods do we have in this world !?

Originally posted by maes2
reply to post by ThinkingHuman

 

how many Gods do we have in this world !?

Apparently as many as you like. don't like the current one? Make up your own.

When the bible says Gods chosen people are the jews it means Jesus would witness to the jews.Why do people make it so complicated.BlueJay33 explained it very well how the jews lost the favor.But that was because of The new covenant of Christ and the new testament.

Originally posted by Jobeycool
When the bible says Gods chosen people are the jews it means Jesus would witness to the jews.Why do people make it so complicated.BlueJay33 explained it very well how the jews lost the favor.But that was because of The new covenant of Christ and the new testament.

edit on 3-7-2013 by Jobeycool because: (no reason given)

They didn't lose favor they lost some exclusivity. And.... Jesus isn't coming back to Jerusalem for nothing.

Originally posted by MyHappyDogShiner
I have often pondered this conundrum myself, and cannot understand how such nonsense could be so faithfully followed based on the re-interpreted writings of both the Judaic and Christian texts.

Metaphors, Innuendo, Riddles and the like serve only to cause me to question what little faith I have left .

If I have to rely on another to explain the meaning of something written in such a confusing way, which can be interpreted in so many ways by so many different people, it begins to appear the text was written by men to be muddled in order to remain a mystery to be understood only by the elite of any one religion/sect/cult.

Talking to a religious scholar is akin to talking to a lawyer.

The term Lawyer sounds too much like the word "Liar" to be accidental.

There is a reason impressionable young people are targeted for this type of indoctrination, the same reason they
are targeted by the military when young.

I need to talk to the big guy, not a middle man, before I even begin to believe in anything again.

Your last conclusion is spot on. But I would add, it is man that puts the confusion in our minds in the first place. Peter could not believe that Jesus had to die even though he grew up reading scripture. Why could he not see what was going to happen? Because as Christ called him Satan...your thoughts are on the things of men. How many times did Jesus ask his disciples "do you not yet understand", "why do you reason"..."beware of the leaven"... "the teachings of men". It is man and man's doctrines that get us to see one thing yet perceive another. Not 80 years ago the majority saw and perceived an unborn baby as life and killing it as murder. How is it that so many eyes see the same baby today but perceive it to be a clump of cells and it's killing not as murder? The baby didn't change but what happened....the words and doctrines of men changed our perceptions. A stage show mesmerist can get a volunteer to actually see fully clothed people as naked. This indicates that our minds play a huge role in how we perceive. The same thing happens when reading scripture - the words and teachings of men alter what it is the Spirit is teaching, so we hear men and not God.

Therefore, if you could see this from a new perspective; it's men who have indoctrinated us in order to throw us into confusion. Just like this "gentile" and "Jew" issue. We interpret based upon what is already in our minds but never stop to question the power and control held by those who put the stuff there. We reject the Bible but turn on the television which is but a pulpit with words and images designed to change our perceptions of everything. The gospels show us crowds enthralled by Jesus, yet in the end the crowds were swayed to shout crucify Him. Swayed. Nothing has changed. We are swayed. God is not the author of confusion, so therefore it is man.

At some point in this discussion I have been looking out for someone to bring up the fact that the "Jews" or decedents of Judah did not by any means comprise the entire nation or all the tribes, also called families, of Israel otherwise known as Jacob and his decedents from four different wives two of which were sisters.

For example the Ephraimites never come up. The Ephraimites were the tribe that received the birthright and separate promises as a mighty nation and people. They are not Jews. Its all there in black and white. The Ephraimites not only possessed the birth right they were the "battle ax", the glory, the chief nation, ect. Not understanding this limits your understanding to a considerable degree.

Originally posted by NavyDoc

Originally posted by ThinkingHuman


I am shocked because for all intents and purposes, every Christian is really a Jew.

You are correct. Christianity is theologically the son of Judaism.

Not quite correct. Judaism is not just the OT. The legalistic traditions that began during the latter stages of the Babylonian Captivity, continued in Christ's time as "the Tradition of the Elders" and was finally first put into written form about 200 AD as the Babylonian Talmud --this change to the old religion of Moses and the Patriarchs--is , and has been for 2100+ years, Judaism. Christ and the Pharisees were mortal enemies.

At the time of Christ, the Idumaen Herodians were in control (under the Romans) of Judea, Samaria, Galilee, and Idumea . Herod the Great had had the majority of Judahite members of the Sanhedrin murdered, and replaced by his people in 37 BC. That was shortly after the Roman Senate had proclaimed him "The first King of the Jews." The Idumaen Edomites were not Israelites. They had been forcibly converted to Judaism by the Maccabees in the 2nd century BC.

Why do Christians follow a book that says you are supposed to follow the local law as a tenet of the faith and yet encourage statutory rape like Joseph Smith entrapping Helen Mar Kimball in marriage by means of deception without even having his prophecies validated by God (Richard Abanes documents many failures of Smith's prophecies in the name of Christ in his book One Nation Under Gods)?

Who do Christians follow a book that supports rape in the Old Testament when it is like statutory rape a felony violation of law, and therefore a violation of the Christian faith?

The Bible forbids murder, but raping a child creates anger that is unresolved. I'd guess half to 75 percent of people in jail for murder were sexual abuse victims. So, the Bible encourages a behavior like rape which leads its victims to kill, and they don't even understand why they kill.

The Bible says you are supposed to kill homosexual men, but many of them were victims of sexual abuse, which the Bible by promoting rape encourages.

The Bible encourages felony sexual conduct like rape, but then we have Google glass, Microsoft windows meteors which break the windows of thousands of building because of the Bee Tea.

What makes sense about Christianity?

Choose the right! Choose Buddhism! Have you ever seen a Buddhist fly a place into a building or decapitate someone? Have you ever seen a Buddhist prophecy incorrectly and manipulate 14 year olds into marriage by deception which violates their own doctrines of faith?

reply to post by Deetermined

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by Shiloh7

 

Regardless of what you think of their past claims, the prophecies that they have written are unfolding before our eyes.

Except in this thread where 'Wandering Scribe' already showed that a prophecy that Yahweh (God of the bible) made that didn't come true. [LINK]

The Bible is not some special book. A prophecy was made that can never come true (Nebuchadnezzar conquering Egypt and Tyre - which he never did). That one failed prophecy along proves that either Yahweh is not all powerful to control everything and make the prophecy happen (which would be against free-will anyway) OR that Yahweh is not all knowing which is why the prophecy did not come true.

In either way, he is not the true God because he failed a prophecy.


So, to answer the original poster's question: "Why do Christians believe in a God that has chosen' The Jews".

Because apparently Jesus Christ died for Jews and Gentiles making the connection of Yahweh of The Jews to be Yahweh of all people. That is, assuming that Yahweh was really Jesus's father ("Heavenly Father" - as he would say). At any rate, Yahweh is a false God and this is now shown. So, people can get off their knees and discover truth. Or they can keep worshiping this ancient book with failed prophecies and prophecies occurring now only due to that vagueness and forcing them to fit with what is happening now (like Christians already did since 2,000 years ago). Every generation The Christians thinks the world is ending but it never does. Failed prophecy, failed visions from Yahweh, over and over again.