Why do Christians believe in a God that has "chosen" the Jews

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by NoSoul

 

"If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver"

You cut those verses a little short, didn't you?

Deuteronomy 22:28-29

28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;

29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.

He's also forced to marry her and keep her as his wife for the rest of his life.

I don't know about you, but I'm sure some men would rather be stoned to death than have to marry, live with and provide for every woman he's ever slept with for the rest of his life.

The punishment was to keep the men from doing it in the first place.

No I didn't in the original post. It wasn't going to do any good to give you the entire post again that you probably didn't read in the first place. So you want to ignore the fact that he could rape her and if not discovered NOT OF THE REST OF IT WOULD EVER HAPPEN. Whatever helps you sleep at night. It says it clear as day "if discovered" then the punishments are laid out.

reply to post by NoSoul

Ok maybe we're making a little progress. I'm willing to listen that the New Testament was a more realistic word of God. I will not listen to the Old Testament being the word of God when it is filled with murder and rape. But people like to use the Old Testament as a pretext for Jesus' coming, yet they don't really know the contents of the Old Testament. .

We know the contents of the Old Testament.

We also know that the God of the New Testament is the same God as that of the Old.

reply to post by NoSoul


What? You think anyone has the ability to hide their sins from God regardless of whether or not they're caught by the people? Guess again.

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by NoSoul

 

Ok maybe we're making a little progress. I'm willing to listen that the New Testament was a more realistic word of God. I will not listen to the Old Testament being the word of God when it is filled with murder and rape. But people like to use the Old Testament as a pretext for Jesus' coming, yet they don't really know the contents of the Old Testament. .

We know the contents of the Old Testament.

We also know that the God of the New Testament is the same God as that of the Old.

Well you believe what you wish. But It's pretty clear they're not the same Gods. in the Old Testament he stands for murder and rape, in the New Testament it's love. Would you like to explain why God became a loving figure when he wasn't in the Old Testament? It makes no sense.

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by NoSoul

 

What? You think anyone has the ability to hide their sins from God regardless of whether or not they're caught by the people? Guess again.

See you're not addressing what was posted you're going into your head and using your own "christian logic" it clearly says "if discovered". Why would the bible say that? Sounds like to me it's ok as long as you don't get caught.

reply to post by NoSoul

Well you believe what you wish. But It's pretty clear they're not the same Gods. in the Old Testament he stands for murder and rape, in the New Testament it's love. Would you like to explain why God became a loving figure when he wasn't in the Old Testament? It makes no sense.

It doesn't matter what you think. It only matters what God thinks. You don't have to accept him and you're given free will to choose.

The point of the Old Testament is that no matter how many laws there are, how much wrath/punishments are given out, how many times God forgives people over and over, how many times God/Jesus shows love instead of wrath, that people are only going to accept Him if they understand and were meant to.

Jesus coming in the flesh, coming in love, coming to teach others how to love didn't change anything either, now did it? No, people who don't want to believe will continue disbelieving no matter what package he comes wrapped in or what he does!

I have deleted my comments but feel physically I'll at the references you have shown but the only person whom could truly convince me would be a moderate Jewish Rabbi as remember the false documents that the Nazi's released about the jew's and how many innocent died because of them, how do we know these are real and not fake, give us a url to a PDF of the texts in Hebrew or Yiddish so we can use bing or google translator on them and see for ourselve's, I was rash to condemn without stronger evidence but the nature of what you showed here was such that is has turned my stomach and nearly made me vomit.

reply to post by Deetermined


I would remind you that people have been expecting Jesus to rise from the dead from 4 days after he was crucified, the Jews are expecting a Messiah, none of these things have happened.

Anyone can make 'prophesies' about all sorts of everyday things, but the important religious ones concerning God/Yahweh/Jehovah etc have not happened yet - along with the end of the world.

So what prophesies are you referring to?

reply to post by reeferman


The Talmud is a 'delightful' book and an absolute eye-opener (One could be forgiven for thinking that the money-lenders of today are firm Talmud supporters). These instructions exist in both Judiasm and some concerning rape etc in Islam, although I cannot think of any such instructions written by men on those lines in Christianity.

The big difference is that the Talmud was written by Rabbi's and shame on them as well as the books and instructions concerning Islam and shame on them also. Religion does not guarantee to benefit mankind spiritually.Under those instructions it defies spirituality.

Originally posted by ThinkingHuman
The Christian religion was created by Jews. The Tanakh, or Hebrew Bible, was wrritten by Jews. All the characters were Jewish, except those that held them as slaves or in captivity. We Christians know it as the Old Testament. Moses said in De 7:6 “For you are a holy people to Jehovah your God. It is you Jehovah your God has chosen. According to Ps 135:4 “Jah has chosen Jacob for himself, Israel for his special property.”

The New Testament makes Jesus, another Jew, the same as God. Even the authorities are aware of his special status, they refer to Jesus in Mt 27:37 as “King of the Jews”.

His followers, the apostles were also Jews. They are the ones who wrote most of the New Testament. And they probably addressed themselves to Jewish communities because Peter 2:9 for example mentioned “you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession that you should declare abroad the excellencies of the one”.

It will help to point out that Jews have always sent a number of people to all the foreign lands, to help them advance their knowledge and their customs to bring the people closer to God. Here Peter is addressing Priests who had moved from Israel to modern day Turkey.

Christians have lived in the land of Israel only to a very small extent. It becomes very questionable why Christians felt a need to order crusades to a far away land like Israel. The argument that Israel is significant to Christianity does not hold up under scrutiny. Christianity only spread there in the 4th century under the Roman emperor Constantine, and only until they were kicked out in the 6th century.

To be clear, these quote make it explicit that Christians are NOT the chosen people of the Christian God - the Jews are the chosen people, according to the Christian Bible.

Why do Christians not believe in their own God? And who chose them not some other “race”?

edit on 2-7-2013 by ThinkingHuman because: (no reason given)

Your question is false
thats why you get into trouble friend.

Understand that the concept of "jews" is a Corruptional concept, and has nothing to do with God.

see,
there was a country next to old-israel, named Edom,
and it were old-israels archenemies.
Why ?

because they were the bllod of Esau, who was the brother of Jacob [ = old-israel] ,
but Esau was pagan, heathen, and out to Murder all of the members of old-israel.

...in 150 bC, old-israel conquered Edom, IN SPITE of Gods clear statement to NOT do that, and mix;
but they did -
and the result was the pharisees, sadducees, etc, who came to rule old-israel.

Does this concept sound familiar, these days ?

Why, you suppose, He called them " serpents "?

..or whý Paul, in Acts, has 60 [!] times in different towns "hatred of the jews against him "?

- because they are the esau kind.

So please dont fool yourself by first accepting a false premisse -
and then saying "oh so God is wrong ".

thats but circle argumentation
because you started with the false premisses.

kind regards,

reply to post by Shiloh7

So what prophesies are you referring to?

The one where Jerusalem becomes a burden to the entire world.

That day is coming if we ever see a fight between the Palestinians and Israel over splitting up Jerusalem for their respective capitols by the United Nations.

If the god of the ot is not the same as nt, then christians are pathetic. If jesus is not the fulfillment of ot prophecies of the one messiah, then christians are stupid and perpetuating the greatest lie ever. With many things in life, one can take a gray area of thinking; not so with christianity. It is or is not. At death we will all know what is true and what is false. Eternity is a bet that not everyone is comfortable making. But that is what life really is. Die is cast.

jews - controlling the media since 0000

The answer to this is simple...

Like anyone who believes in god, their sense of logic and mental functioning is impaired.

Its broken, damaged, harmed. They are malfunctioning.

reply to post by ThinkingHuman
To be clear, these quote make it explicit that Christians are NOT the chosen people of the Christian God - the Jews are the chosen people, according to the Christian Bible.

Exactly...The Jews turned from God and God turned to the Gentiles for a time to make the Jews jealous...

reply to post by Deetermined


[shaking head]

I accept you for where you are on your path. I'm sure a few others who are "in the know" think I'm a metaphysical novice. I am. After two years of study, I've finally developed the courage to vocalize what I know. Not believe... Know.

Good luck

www.youtube.com...

I doubt any christians would take the time to watch that but they should. It'll take a few hours to watch part 1 through 3.4.. It was someone who was raised christian and fought his whole life defending christianity but was eventually convinced it was a lie. In my opinion even if you are 100% sure you're right you should still willing to listen to other opinions. Sort of like ATS says "Deny ignorance" well you can't deny ignorance if you refuse to listen to anything but what you believe. If you watch the whole thing and think "he's wrong and I'm still right" great. That just further proves to yourself that you're right. Don't limit your mind to what you already know and think you know everything. Nobody knows everything.

here is some light reading....

brain defects

dana.org...

I've always been puzzled as to why Christians don't understand that Christianity is a spin-off of Judaism.

I don't relate to Middle Eastern Jewish culture, so that's why I don't enjoy reading the Bible.

Then you have some guys in the Elizabethan Court of King James, probably organized by Francis Bacon, who probably served as editor and chief writer putting whatever suited them into their "version".

Personally, I don't need a religion as convoluted and Jewish as Christianity.

I prefer cosmology, physics and to me, there is plenty of wonder and awe in science and the seemingly never ending spectacular discoveries in science.

You might think I'm an atheist, but no. I believe that God is the totality of everything and I believe in a supernatural form of intelligent design.

I'm open minded about such things as a 'soul' and some form of existence after 'death'.

For just the whole ethics side of things, I appreciate Buddhism the most. Compassion. Kindness.

I'm of Anglo-Saxon descent, which means my family tree was most likely never in the Middle East and never had anything to do with matters and events in the Old Testament. As far as the New Testament goes, I think Jesus could have been a bodhisattva, but he was also a radical rebel, a sort of hippie. I'm not sure he actually existed, but I don't hold it against anyone who wants to 'believe' and finds comfort in 'believing'. Maybe the Bible is right and I should pay more attention to it --- well, I'm open to that too, but I am not yet sufficiently compelled to worship it.

People who quote the Bible don't impress me. Those who don't understand that it is mostly Jewish and concerns Middle Eastern Judaica seem kind of ignorant to me.

Yes, my ancient ancestors were probably pagan, in one way or another, and my more recent ancestors were definitely Christian, but most likely because they were convinced or brainwashed to believe that Christianity is the only thing going, which is a tribute to the effectiveness of the dudes working for Francis Bacon and King James. They really put it over on billions of people. King James, who has a reputation of being quite the 'sinner' got his name on the cover of billions of books adored, without question, by billions of people.

Not bad publicity for any king in history. And it just keeps on going.

reply to post by ThinkingHuman


I'm Christian and I don't.