Why do Christians believe in a God that has "chosen" the Jews

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posted on Jul, 2 2013 @ 07:31 PM
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Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by PuRe EnErGy
 



A lot of what the Roman Catholic Church teaches goes directly against what Jesus taught when you read the Gnostic scriptures.


The Gnostics were nothing more than the New Agers of today. Always trying to mix pagan worship traditions with Christianity to create a mixed religion based on mystical experiences brought on by fallen angels and demon contact.

edit on 2-7-2013 by Deetermined because: (no reason given)


This couldn't be further from the truth.
A lot of what people know about the gnostics comes directly from their enemies or people who didn't agree with them and it sounds like that's where you learned about them from.

Gnosticism is older than the church/Christianity; they adapted to the teachings of Christ after his revelations.




posted on Jul, 2 2013 @ 07:43 PM
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Because the bible is jewish propoganda written by Jews.



posted on Jul, 2 2013 @ 07:43 PM
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reply to post by ThinkingHuman
 





My question was mostly about why Christianity started out some 2000 years ago, especially given that Judaism was there already, not focusing on the word ‘chosen’.


I'm still not sure what you're saying.

Christians resonate with the biblical God concept. It doesn't matter what the Bible has to say about particular things, because Christians and Jews have learned to edit from their thinking concepts that don't conduce towards today's moral concerns.

Is it strange? No. It's rooting yourself in an ancient tradition. You'd be surprised how easily Biblical myth adapts itself to metaphorical interpretation.




If we needed a new religion, why not come up with new God(s)?


The God concept enunciated in the Bible is pretty universal: creator of the heavens and the earth? That idea cannot be "replaced" by another God. This God concept is a capital "G" concept; to differentiate it from the little "g" gods of Greece and elsewhere, all you need do is analyze their capacities: wisdom, love, etc. These are mere concepts that have nothing to do with origin, meaning, moral purpose.

It is therefore unbelievably wrong to say the Christians needed a "new God" when they already had a perfectly universal one from the Jewish religion.



But maybe because our/my ‘myopia’ we imagine that our religion is something original


People are and can be original. The Jews took from the Babylonians, sure, but they modified those myths (creation, cataclysmic flood, etc) totally beyond recognition: nothing in near east religion resembles the universalism of the Jews - even if that universalism takes place within the paradoxical context of a "chosen people".

Perhaps Christianity was a logical expansion of the Jewish God idea? Or maybe Judaism was misunderstood by outsiders?



posted on Jul, 2 2013 @ 07:45 PM
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reply to post by PuRe EnErGy
 



Gnosticism is older than the church/Christianity; they adapted to the teachings of Christ after his revelations.


They only adapted the teachings of Christ that they wanted to while they continued their pagan practices. The two don't mix.



posted on Jul, 2 2013 @ 07:59 PM
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reply to post by RealTruthSeeker
 


The 1798 date? The 1260 years? No, I do not believe in that.

I believe when Jesus were gone for those three days, He did more than what we have been told. But, I will say that a great read is in the Apocrypha, the Gospel of Nicodemus. Nicodemus

At this stage I read my bible and research some of the Apocryphal books. But I do so with extreme caution. In Nicodemus there's a part called "the harrowing of hell" where Jesus walked in Hell and made Hades shake with fear, literlally. I love reading it, it is a wow factor - the power of Christ.

But of course I have to follow the guidance of my Father. If my soul feels it is wrong to follow up, or read to deep into something, I turn to prayer. Meditation is my way of getting as close to Him as possible and to help me when I am asking too much questions. Some things are just not meant for us to understand at this stage.

edit on 09/02/2012 by KaelemJames because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 2 2013 @ 08:27 PM
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reply to post by KaelemJames
 


Cool. I'm a Bible collector and have alot of the older versions in print form. I've read the Gospel of Nicodemus and the more detailed account of Jesus's trip to hell. I agree you have to be careful reading these books, nevertheless, I do think a few lessons can be learned from them. Although highly controversial one of my favorites 2 Esdras 7:75 and on. Unfortunately it's on the border of purgatory, which I'm just not sure about. Jesus touches on it, but I'm not sure if that parable is twofold or not.



posted on Jul, 2 2013 @ 08:51 PM
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reply to post by Deetermined
 


I was waiting for the first gnostic-hating mention to pop up... LOL Give me a break! I've climbed out of the construct. You ought to try popping your head out of the clouds which surround you and learn about your creator.

I am a recovered religionist. I am also "Jewish" through my Mom's side of the family. I've always heard about the star belly Jews being better, and closer to God. That's poppycock. My Southern Baptist friends have tried to convert Jews to Jesus.. Poppycock ver. 2. We're all chosen! Even the "devil."

A side note: most Jews aren't really "Jews." Particularly those whose roots are in Eastern Europe. Have you ever heard about the Khazar Empire?

All of this end-of-the-world rubbish, with Jesus (the one and only god?!) coming back with a blazing sword is never... Never going to happen.



posted on Jul, 2 2013 @ 08:56 PM
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reply to post by Q33323
 



I've climbed out of the construct. You ought to try popping your head out of the clouds which surround you and learn about your creator.


Why would I turn to fallen angels and demons to learn about my Creator?



posted on Jul, 2 2013 @ 09:17 PM
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reply to post by RealTruthSeeker
 


I will look into 2 Esdras, with caution of course, and thanks for the warning!

It seems that I am going to learn quite a bit from you!



posted on Jul, 2 2013 @ 09:25 PM
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Originally posted by ThinkingHuman

Originally posted by Deetermined
 
Maybe this thread will help you to understand the connection...

www.abovetopsecret.com...
Thanks but no it did not help. It did not answer my question in the title/OP, and it did not ease my sense of betrayal I am experiencing right now.

I am shocked because for all intents and purposes, every Christian is really a Jew.


Don't feel betrayed. God favored the Israel people because they followed Him, believed in Him. He promised a Savior through them. Jews are still waiting for their Savior. They did not recognize Jesus when He came. When Jesus came He provided Himself for all of mankind. God adopts everyone as His own through Jesus when we accept Jesus as our Savior. We all belong to Him and God wants none to perish. Does this help?



posted on Jul, 2 2013 @ 09:26 PM
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You don't have to "turn to demons" or anything like that. I'm not into any hocus-pocus magic tomfoolery, or participate in gross actions. I study. I pray. I get the feeling about what's right to pursue, and I know what not to pursue.

In another post, you mentioned paganism. Most Christian symbols are pagan symbols, co-opted by the catholic (universal) church. The cross. The fish. Mary (female deification). Dec. 25. Easter.... My fingers would give out before I'd typed in all the examples of how Christianity is infused with pagan religious practices, traditions, and symbols. If you like Jesus, check out the life of Horus, or Krishna.

God is everywhere. He's the air that you breath. The sky, the birds, and the trees. The chair you're on which you rest. The device you use to access this website. He is you. You are He, and we all are One.

With all due respect, your reaction is due to propaganda which has covered you with a dense shroud. A majority of my Christian friends put their hands over their ears when I talk about this. Thus, I am careful about approaching the subject... except on somewhat-anonymous platforms such as this. I've been told that Satan has got me in the palm of his hand. That may be true because the Bible says Satan is the Prince of the World. Thus, we're all in his hands.

Why would God let Satan be the prince "ruler" of our world? That's something to contemplate.



posted on Jul, 2 2013 @ 09:35 PM
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The Jews were grafted on to Gods vine and then some broke off, and the gentiles are then grafted in their place
biblehub.com...


The vine is Jesus
www.biblegateway.com...

The Jews have the same Messiah, Saviour as Christians. We are all one in Christ.
biblehub.com...

The chosen of God is now those who believe Christ's message



posted on Jul, 2 2013 @ 09:36 PM
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In the NT Christ stated multiple times that his "chosen people" or his "own people" would reject Him as their Savior. They expected a Savior that would save them physically from the Roman Empire and the bondage they were in whereas Christ was sent to save them spiritually from sin.

It is pretty obvious the main sects of Judaism rejected him (Pharisees, Sadducees, etc) and when he was crucified and died the veil of the temple was rent or ripped (Matthew 27:51), symbolizing the Jews' sacred right of being God's people was no longer valid.

When Christ resurrected and visited with his Apostles for 40 days he told them to begin preaching to the Gentiles and everyone else. This explains the meaning of his statement, "The last shall be first and the first shall be last (Matthew 20:16). Then Gentiles originally were not meant to here his message because they were not the chosen people. But because the Jews rejected Him, being the first people, they now became the last. Scripture still teaches that eventually they will confess that Jesus is the Christ.

Jesus was the Son of God and taught His gospel which was meant to fulfill and succeed the Law of Moses, which was the lower law given to the people of Israel after they escaped from Egypt because they were not yet ready for the higher law. Once Jesus gave the higher law the Jews were expected to follow it but they rejected it and all of His teachings.

The term Christian means those who follow the teachings, example, and gospel of Jesus Christ. It is the same God who sent the message, but Judaism does not recognize Jesus as their Savior or a prophet for that matter and therefore do not recognize the New Testament (which testament is that of Christ's) as holy scripture.

This argument can also be applied to the idea that since Jesus was technically a Jew, shouldn't we all be Jews in order to follow Him?

Hopefully this explains some things.



posted on Jul, 2 2013 @ 09:48 PM
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reply to post by Q33323
 



Why would God let Satan be the prince "ruler" of our world? That's something to contemplate.


It's God's vs Satan. Follow God or follow Satan.

Humans are allowed free will like the angels were. The difference is that the fallen angels don't get a second chance because they already knew God and perfection before they made their choices.

Our world is all Satan is ever going to know before he's destroyed. This world wasn't meant to last forever. Neither were our human flesh bodies.

God will lead his followers to the new heaven/earth for eternity in their incorruptible, heavenily bodies.

God isn't going to force anyone to follow or worship him. It's our choice.



posted on Jul, 2 2013 @ 10:01 PM
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reply to post by Q33323
 



You don't have to "turn to demons" or anything like that. I'm not into any hocus-pocus magic tomfoolery, or participate in gross actions. I study. I pray. I get the feeling about what's right to pursue, and I know what not to pursue.


When you turn to anyone other than God directly, how do you know you're not turning to demons when Satan was given the ability to disguise himself as an angel of light when he chooses to?

Why go to "others" for answers? They're all deceivers filling everyone with half-truths just enough to get to you to believe them.

God's angels don't answer to humans, they only answer to God. Anyone who thinks they're visiting God's realm on their own whim is sadly mistaken.

edit on 2-7-2013 by Deetermined because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 2 2013 @ 10:15 PM
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Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by Q33323
 



You don't have to "turn to demons" or anything like that. I'm not into any hocus-pocus magic tomfoolery, or participate in gross actions. I study. I pray. I get the feeling about what's right to pursue, and I know what not to pursue.


When you turn to anyone other than God directly, how do you know you're not turning to demons when Satan was given the ability to disguise himself as an angel of light when he chooses to?

Why go to "others" for answers? They're all deceivers filling everyone with half-truths just enough to get to you to believe them.

God's angels don't answer to humans, they only answer to God. Anyone who thinks they're visiting God's realm on their own whim is sadly mistaken.

edit on 2-7-2013 by Deetermined because: (no reason given)


How do you know Jesus is not a deceiver? Other than saying it's in your "heart" you don't. Why is bible the word of God? Everybody knows it was written by man, but why is it people trick themselves to believing the real God told them to write it? What if someone else wrote another book today and said it was the "real" word of God. There would be many thinking it's a false book, but what if it was the real one? So why is the bible different? Just because it's a tradition passed down from generation to generation doesn't make it true.
edit on 2-7-2013 by NoSoul because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 2 2013 @ 10:55 PM
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reply to post by ThinkingHuman
 


The OT said the ministry and kingdom of the Messiah would also include the Gentiles.

What are you talking about? Besides, I don't care if another group would in fact be "chosen" if that were true, more power to them. It's always better to be seated at the end of the table than it is to be on the menu.



posted on Jul, 2 2013 @ 11:03 PM
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reply to post by ThinkingHuman
 





To be clear, these quote make it explicit that Christians are NOT the chosen people of the Christian God - the Jews are the chosen people, according to the Christian Bible.


Did you never read Galatians 3? We're in Christ and there are neither jews nor gentiles in him, for all are Christ within him and heirs to the promise. There is only 1 seed of Abraham, and that is Jesus. None of the others were worthy of the land, only he is and he is Israel.

The jews were called the chosen people because they were originally chosen to be the priests of the nations, to offer up the sacrifice for the sins of the world. The feast days were dress rehearsals, but they didn't pay attention to Gabriel when he said Jesus would come through the east gate riding on a donkey colt.

The Christian God is the one who was on Mt. Sinai and Horeb with Moses, Jesus admits it was himself under veiled words in John 5:36-47 and in John 8:56-59 he admits he was the Melki-Tsedek (King of Righteousness) the one Abraham paid 1/10th of his spoils to. You see, there was no man in heaven to intercede, so God had to become that man, he had to become his own Highpriest to intercede for us (Isaiah 59:16).

Now jews and christians were once one people, the split occurred as was prophesied by Zechariah in Zechariah 11:12-14 after Judas betrayed Christ for 30 shekels of silver and he tried to return the money, but the Pharisees refused to take it back because it was unlawful to put blood money into temple coffers, so they took that money and bought a potter's field to bury the poor in. When God broke is staff bonds (Zech 11:14), that is when Jesus brought the sword of righteousness to cleave the wicked from the righteous (Matt 10:34, Matt 23:31-36).

I'm going to start digressing so i'll cut this short, I could go on and on all night over the stuff I've learned reading scripture this passed year and none of it would bring any understanding to anyone who didn't already believe anyways.
edit on 2-7-2013 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 2 2013 @ 11:08 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by ThinkingHuman
 


The OT said the ministry and kingdom of the Messiah would also include the Gentiles.

What are you talking about? Besides, I don't care if another group would in fact be "chosen" if that were true, more power to them. It's always better to be seated at the end of the table than it is to be on the menu.


Right in Isaiah 49.

I don't particularly care where at the table im seated at as long as I make it to the marriage feast.



posted on Jul, 2 2013 @ 11:22 PM
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Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by ThinkingHuman
 


The OT said the ministry and kingdom of the Messiah would also include the Gentiles.

What are you talking about? Besides, I don't care if another group would in fact be "chosen" if that were true, more power to them. It's always better to be seated at the end of the table than it is to be on the menu.


Right in Isaiah 49.

I don't particularly care where at the table im seated at as long as I make it to the marriage feast.


Yup. I'm not selfish.



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