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Islamic Cleric Decrees Rape is OK during Syrian War

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posted on Jun, 3 2013 @ 12:43 PM
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The Bible/Quran/Torah and religion in general should have nothing to do with the crap coming out of this halfwits mouth.

Where does it say in any of the above books that is ok to rape your enemy? I must have missed that part!

Rape is ethically wrong! No ifs no buts no coconuts!

The fact that this muppet is using religious connotations to promote said act is laughable!




posted on Jun, 3 2013 @ 12:47 PM
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reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee
 


Thanks, that'll be great!!

I look forward to the debunking or explanation.



posted on Jun, 3 2013 @ 12:48 PM
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Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee
 




The Bible sanctions rape within its pages, and this is something that the Quran also does. For the Bibler's to say that they are obsolete in the Bible, and anyone that follows the old laws do not represent them without also accepting that reasoning from Quraners is intellectually dishonest.

Maybe if you had a Christian leader condoning rape, as the Imam in question has, you could call both of them apples.


Did you just ignore Family International? What about the Catholic Church and their sex abuse scandal, and the priest that said that pedophilia isn't always bad?

Also, you mentioned something about Jesus specifically talking about "commandments"... Well the one about raping women is the 611th Commandment.



posted on Jun, 3 2013 @ 12:48 PM
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reply to post by andy06shake
 




Where does it say in any of the above books that is ok to rape your enemy? I must have missed that part!

It is addressed in the thread.
It can be found in both the Bible and the Koran.

Both are books full of the words of men. In the old days they were very misogynistic, some have held on to the old ways.



posted on Jun, 3 2013 @ 12:51 PM
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Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee
 




The Bible sanctions rape within its pages, and this is something that the Quran also does. For the Bibler's to say that they are obsolete in the Bible, and anyone that follows the old laws do not represent them without also accepting that reasoning from Quraners is intellectually dishonest.

Maybe if you had a Christian leader condoning rape, as the Imam in question has, you could call both of them apples.


Did you just ignore Family International? What about the Catholic Church and their sex abuse scandal, and the priest that said that pedophilia isn't always bad?

Also, you mentioned something about Jesus specifically talking about "commandments"... Well the one about raping women is the 611th Commandment.


You will not find me apologizing for what a priest says condoning pedophilia.... or anyone else condoning it. Yet, we see the Islamopologists coming here to do it in this case.

We eat pork now too.
I guess I'm not going to heaven.



posted on Jun, 3 2013 @ 12:54 PM
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reply to post by butcherguy
 


"It can be found in both the Bible and the Koran."

All I can say is I must have missed that part in Sunday school!

If this is the case its just another nail in the coffin for organised religion.

Thou shalt forcibly bum thi enemy is just not cricket!

Brings a whole new definition to "You have got to be in it to win it!" LoL

edit on 3-6-2013 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 3 2013 @ 12:59 PM
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Originally posted by butcherguy
You will not find me apologizing for what a priest says condoning pedophilia.... or anyone else condoning it. Yet, we see the Islamopologists coming here to do it in this case.


Never asked you to apologize. You asked me to point out a mainstream religious leader condoning rape. I did what you asked. Now you deflect, but that doesn't matter.

The points have been made.

Bible gives instruction on how to rape women.
Quran gives the same kind of instruction.
Christian nutters use that as an excuse to rape.
Islamic nutters use that as an excuse to rape.

Neither group of nutters can be used to judge the whole.

Don't judge Islam because some decide to use it to rape unless you want Chrisitanity judged because some decide to use it to rape.



posted on Jun, 3 2013 @ 01:03 PM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


Rape is OK anytime in the ME especially against infidels. Look what they did to Ambassador Stephens.

Let’s be honest, most radical Muslims believe the blame for sexual harassment and rape falls largely on women who fail to behave modestly….it’s the women’s fault. And of course anything bad done to infidels is acceptable to them.

The ME is filled with third world countries and a lot of third world, barbaric people IMO.



posted on Jun, 3 2013 @ 01:09 PM
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reply to post by andy06shake
 



Where does it say in any of the above books that is ok to rape your enemy? I must have missed that part!


It's part of the Muslim Culture. Muhammad set the example.


There is no equivalent term for ‘rape’ in the Qur'an. Likewise, there is not a single verse in the Qur'an which even remotely discourages forced sex. In contrast, there are several verses in this book which give the green light to rape and other sexual crimes against women.



This practice of raping war captives was practiced by Islam’s very own prophet Muhammad, in his life. On two occasions, he married (for the sake of sexual gratification only) war captives and raped them. Those victims were namely Safiyah and Juwairiyah.
www.wikiislam.net...



posted on Jun, 3 2013 @ 01:09 PM
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reply to post by SeekerofTruth101
 


For sure, at the level of hatred and ignorances had not only proven you had not read the Koran in its entirely, you had even far worse understood less of what Islam is about, and for you to shoot your mouth to lay claims on Islam only proves the depth such depths and lack of cranium matter.

So do end such claims. It will only make you look worse than before, which only me - an insignificant nobody, would bother to be patient to explain to you with all sincerity and kindness that not many would have bothered. Be thankful of the attention you are getting, despite your stuborness and clinging on to hatred of Islam as a shield to cover your ignorance to comment on another religion of which you have no understanding of.

You're just NOT GOING TO QUIT with the ad-hominem "character assassination" of me, are you?

ANSWER THE DAMNED QUESTIONS! I don't care if YOU think I'm 'mentally challenged' and 'ignorant.' I've DONE my homework to the best of my ability without "Immersion", and there's NO WAY I'm going there.

The ONLY Islamic off-shoot that makes sense to me is Baha'i - and even THEY are being murdered over in the Middle East. Yes, I've visited the Baha'i Temple in Chicago, went through the museum and book-shops.

So, now that we've thoroughly debunked your claim that I'm "ignorant" AND have established that you (and others) say that the warring, raping, killing Muslims are also "ignorant" -
WHAT ARE YOU, in your peaceful BRILLIANCE and CLARITY OF THOUGHT, going to DO ABOUT IT!!!

Stop bashing those of us who can't wrap our heads around what WE SEE GOING ON - and explain it, clearly, please.
You think I'm too stupid to understand? Tough. TELL ME ANYWAY! Or back off of me and all the others here who are asking the same damned questions.

(I'm sure some "smarter" person would like to hear your explanation, even if I'm too 'dense' and 'mentally challenged' for your taste.) Your attempt to defend Islam in the context of ONGOING WAR and devastation isn't helping your cause; neither is attacking me or others who are appalled by the evidence unfolding EVERY DAY.

Yes, yes, we know that governments collude to keep strife active - HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN the wide-spread "ignorance and violence" of all those Muslims who are destroying lives, maiming people, raping women, etc.

Hmmm? I don't suppose the ones planting IEDs are "real Muslims" either - but they are far more visible than you lot of "real Muslims".

C'mon - SPEAK UP!!! Tell us the SOLUTION to the MISUNDERSTANDING and 'ignorance' among your own people (which CAUSES the hostility and misunderstanding of the rest of us)!

edit on 3-6-2013 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 3 2013 @ 01:34 PM
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reply to post by PuterMan
 



I don't see an outcry by the Muslim community, or the World Muslim Council decrying the cleric? Why is that? Maybe I am not looking in the right place. Perhaps you could direct me?

Nope, I sure can't point you in the right direction. I've met a brick wall with every attempt.

All I can do is refer you to the Muslim members here (logical7, babloyi, Sk0rpi0n.....) (and possibly SeekerofTruth, who hasn't admitted openly to being Muslim) -
like I have done, for a couple of years now, investigating from THEIR point of view, and trying to dig deeper into the 'why' and 'wherefore' of the apparent INACTION on the part of the "real Muslim" leaders.

I don't see it. And I've tried. I don't WANT to be a hater - but no explanation as yet has been satisfactory, when the wars are still ongoing.



posted on Jun, 3 2013 @ 01:35 PM
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Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by SeekerofTruth101
 


It is good you ask why about Islam, for that is where your journey to truths and realities will begin, instead of being spoonfed with BS by others who agree to your ignorances whom are equally as ignorant such as the OP over the islamic religion and yet saw fit to rattle her mouth off. and freely accuse anyone else who disagree with her ignorances as haters of women or supporters of sexual indignities to women.

Nice deflection.

You don't have a CLUE how much research INTO ISLAM I have done already (which is available on ATS for all to see). Instead you call us "ignorant" who are appalled at what we SEE HAPPENING all over the world in the NAME OF ISLAM.

You are trying to say I'm derailing this thread - and I'm not. The TOPIC was not "sensationalisation"of the media against Islam. It is about this vile "cleric" stating to whomever will listen that rape is okay. the FACT remains that Muslims are slaughtering each other every bloody day. EVERY DAY. Telling us "but, but....Islam is Peaceful!" is useless at this point. It obviously is NOT.


Islam is from my point of view an idol just like any other religion humans have created because it does not include all that is. There a spiritual hints of truths but even Christianety that have been one of the most destructive religion that have been corrupted holds hints of spiritual truths for a seeker.

Within Islam there will be the ones who are blessed just like in all religions and and even the atheist sometimes find their way home
. We are a young specie going thru a time of change in our both social, body and spiritual evolution.

If you wanna dislike this Iman then dislike his small mind in understanding Allah and be angry for the influence Saudi Arabia is using to push the most fundamentalistic understanding of Islam all over the world that preaches intolerance and duality. And from my point of view anybody who preaches duality is preaching for Satan. Duality and divide and Conqueror is the true religion of Satan and all human religions seem to preach it at one point or another.

I could probably have a lot of fun with people from both Sunni, Shia and definetly Sufi
.
edit on 3-6-2013 by LittleByLittle because: Spellchecking



posted on Jun, 3 2013 @ 01:46 PM
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reply to post by LittleByLittle
 


I could probably have a lot of fun with people from both Sunni, Shia and definetly Sufi .

I'm not sure here if you're being sincere or referencing "having a lot of fun" in terms of "attack." Sorry.


In either case, I think the Sufis make the most sense (of the archaic versions). I'm not meaning to "attack" - I am only expressing my own gathered information and opinion about Islam in general, as a social structure and phenomenon.
I'm positive there are very kind, loving, good people who are Muslims. Where are they? Mostly in the US, as far as I can tell......but I don't know. I admit freely that I don't know.

I don't know any Muslims personally and well - though I have worked with them and they all - here in the Midwest - seemed polite, respectful, friendly, and FINE. But it isn't the Muslims in America (save a few nutters) who are over in the Middle East acting up.

Saudi Arabia is the one imposing the "ignorant version" on others? And here I thought they were promoting women driving, etc. But who knows, really, unless they are immersed in it their whole lives, and study the political and social science of it? I'm not - I just want someone to explain it to me using logic and sound reason - and to tell me why there is such a 'dearth' of "educated, real Muslims" speaking up publicly to stop the warfare and barbarity.

Can you source the Saudi Arabia "policy" statement you made?
Why would they want to destabilize the region more than it already is?


edit on 3-6-2013 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 3 2013 @ 01:51 PM
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Originally posted by butcherguy
Did Jesus write it? NO, he refuted parts of it...




There is no reason to assume that everything is translated correctly. Maybe Jesus was simply more spiritually inclined than other men involved in writing the Bible. His authority is above everyone else in the Bible.



posted on Jun, 3 2013 @ 01:52 PM
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Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by logical7
 




Whatever the agenda of this thread, what must be kept in mind that every one claiming to be a muslim does not represent islam.

Forgive me, I do not want to pick a fight.

Just who does he represent? Buddhists? Christian Scientists? Wiccans? Baptists? Hindus?

But this guy is an Imam. Again we have a poster saying that what this guy says means nothing.

Let's say that some bishop in the Catholic Church says that abortion is wrong. Do you realize how silly it would be for posters to come to a thread saying that he does not represent the church in any capacity?

he represents himself.
If i say that what he said was wrong which i do say then are you now netural towards islam and if one more muslim poster agrees with me wud you think about islam in positive light?
Do i represent Islam equally? Or you'l only believe sensational people who get on news because of their controversial statements?

What you think imam is? If i am with
few muslim friends and its prayer time we can choose one of us to lead and he'l be the imam. Also anyone studying and getting a theological diploma/degree can work as an imam, they are not appointed by a central body like a bishop in church.



posted on Jun, 3 2013 @ 01:59 PM
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reply to post by logical7
 



If i say that what he said was wrong which i do say then are you now netural towards islam and if one more muslim poster agrees with me wud you think about islam in positive light?

Log7, other Muslim posters HAVE agreed with your assertion that "those are ignorant Muslims, not real Muslims".

And no, (although you didn't ask me), it does NOT make me neutral because it seems to be a rare Muslim indeed who states this, with the vast majority in the warzones that 'we' are exposed to here in the West (via Media and internet) being violent killers and savages. I appreciate your efforts to help ATS understand Islam.....but, four people on a Conspiracy Site doesn't override the very PUBLIC and OBVIOUS things being done by the 'ignorant extremists.'

So, can you answer the question? I've posed it to you numerous times -

what are the 'real' and peaceful, respectful Muslims doing about the reckless, murdering, raping ones?

It seems to me that prohibiting education is a starting point. Real Islam promotes education, peace, and respect. I get that, and I believe you. So ------ what is up with the warring tribes not "getting it"? WHY are they not "educated" or "re-educated" when their actions are so abhorrent and violent, day after day??

And which "sect"do you affiliate with, please? I could POSSIBLY be 'positive' about that "sect" if I knew what it is - but you have failed to impart that disclosure, so - I remain negative. Despite your best and honest efforts, for which I thank you and babloyi, and the few others who have dared venture there.



edit on 3-6-2013 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 3 2013 @ 01:59 PM
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reply to post by logical7
 



he represents himself.


Does Obama represent only himself? It’s the leaders of groups and/or countries who call the shots. Last I checked a Imam is a Muslim religious leader.

By the way, if these actions aren’t representative of Islamic belief then explain this:


This practice of raping war captives was practiced by Islam’s very own prophet Muhammad, in his life. On two occasions, he married (for the sake of sexual gratification only) war captives and raped them. Those victims were namely Safiyah and Juwairiyah.
www.wikiislam.net...

Does Muhammad only represent himself, too?



posted on Jun, 3 2013 @ 02:00 PM
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reply to post by logical7
 




If i say that what he said was wrong which i do say then are you now netural towards islam and if one more muslim poster agrees with me wud you think about islam in positive light?

No, but would think a great deal more of you for saying that he is wrong. If another Muslim poster does the same I will think of both of you in a positive light.

Here is how the wikipedia page defines Imam:

An imam (Arabic: إمام‎, plural: أئمة A'immah; Persian: امام‎) is an Islamic leadership position. It is most commonly in the context of a worship leader of a mosque and Muslim community by Sunni Muslims only. In this context, Imams may lead Islamic worship services, serve as community leaders, and provide religious guidance. It may also be used in the form of a prefix title with scholars of renown.

Wikipedia: Imam
You choose a leader. You can also denounce him. That is what I would expect someone to do in this case, denounce him.



posted on Jun, 3 2013 @ 02:11 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 





What Wrabbit says is a good point - maybe the moderates are intimidated by the Jihadists, too... so they dare not speak up. All I keep getting is "that's not really Islam" - but no "plan" is offered to stop it.

i don't agree with that classification especially if moderates equates to pro west. Each individual is free to guard his/her interests and country especially if an outsider backed war is imposed. Both sides fighting in syria are anti west and so no matter even if rebels win they'l be attacked again by the west on the pretext that it has become a safe haven for al qaeda etc.
Muslims are not blind to the geo political games played in Syria maybe you should read up more and then discuss.
I have offered a "plan" a muslim peace keeper military contributed by all muslim countries going and ending any oppression anywhere in the world. Taking the control of oil away from US in Iraq and Libya, destroying the flourishing opium fields in Afghanistan that are guarded by nato.
So are you going to back it up?



posted on Jun, 3 2013 @ 02:21 PM
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reply to post by seabag
 


Buddy you don't need to sell me on the notion of how diabolical religious Muslim extremists can be.

Any religion that requires the complete annihilation of all other non believers in this day of age is both draconian and obsolete!

Takes all sorts to make this world go round!

If only the Muslim extremists would realise this and get with the times!!!

Maybe it's time for a new testament of the Koran? Then again that's blasphemy maybe i should be raped. LoL

edit on 3-6-2013 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)




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