Islamic Cleric Decrees Rape is OK during Syrian War

Originally posted by butcherguy

Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee
reply to post by butcherguy

 

Why are you demanding to talk about stoning? We are discussing rape. We are discussing rape and its suggested use in Holy Books.

Jesus spoke out about sin, awesome. The passage I posted wasn't a sin, it was actually instruction on how to rape someone as a spoil of war. The Bible is instructing on the correct way to rape a woman.

The rape quote that you referenced was from the Old Testament, a Jewish text. You connect it with Christians. Did Jesus write it?
We are supposed to be discussing how a Muslim Imam condones rape, but the Islamapologists want to take it off track.

ETA: How about you show where modern day Christian clerics are condoning rape, if you really want to bash Christians in this thread.

edit on 3-6-2013 by butcherguy because: (no reason given)

I don't connect the Old Testament with Jesus. The Christians do. The Bible, Old and New Testaments, are THEIR Holy Book, not mine.

There is no where to take it but off track, as the entire story is a fabrication and didn't happen.

www.jordanews.com...

See that?

Look at the part by ياسين احمد ياسين العجلوني (Yassin Ahmed Yassin Ajloni)

He goes into great detail explaining what the fatwa meant, and that it was actually a call to stop the raping by the soldiers of Syria.

سوريا هي ولاية ايرانية فدعوتنا للرئيس باراك اوباما والاتحاد الاوروبي والحكام المسلمين والعرب الى ارسال القوات المسلحة لتحمي الشعب السوري من قاتله ولتوقف اسباب اضطهاد المراة من قبل هؤلاء الشبيحة وما سيترتب على عدم التدخل من ظهور السبي (الاسرى والمختطفين والمغتصبين ) من جديد وهو ما بدا به الاسد وكتائبه ضد الشعب

Originally posted by votan

Originally posted by FlyersFan
reply to post by Tuttle

 

Knock it off. You should learn to read more carefully. I clearly said MASS RAPES by US soldiers doesn't happen and it's not called for by the government. If a rape happens then it is investigated and prosecuted by our government. This is OPPOSITE of what the Imam is calling for. :shk:

so what is a mass rape?? do the rapes need to occur all at the same time to be considered mass rape?? maybe a few hours apart??

So it is okay for regular rapes to happen but we draw the line at mass rapes and the enemy doesn't

so basically you are saying that non mass rapes caused by american soldiers is okay but Mass rapes are not and the muslims are wrecking the curve by going from single rapes to mass rapes.

both parties guilty of rape and you want to sit here and point out who is holier than the other when they both rape.

REALLYY WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU

edit on 2-6-2013 by votan because: (no reason given)

She said none of the kind. What she meant by "mass rape" is a policy of systemic rape as a matter of course by the combatant organization that is encouraged by the leadership.

The US does not condone rape of any sort and rapists are harshly punished.

Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee

10 When you go to war against your enemies and the Lord your God delivers them into your hands and you take captives, 11 if you notice among the captives a beautiful woman and are attracted to her, you may take her as your wife. 12 Bring her into your home and have her shave her head, trim her nails 13 and put aside the clothes she was wearing when captured. After she has lived in your house and mourned her father and mother for a full month, then you may go to her and be her husband and she shall be your wife.

Deuteronomy 21: 10-13

Christianity seems perfectly comfortable with the same concept.

Sigh..once again we have a deut refrence. That was for the HEBREWS/jews in the old testament. That does not apply to the peoples after the resurrection in actuality who are not Hebrews/jews. The only part that carried over to the New Covenant is the 10 commandments,which were condensed into 3 or 4 basic ones that if you actually follow you are actually following the entire 10 still.

This will make it simplier to understand
OT. Is almost all for the hebrew/jews.
NT is for anyone else not related to the jews who accept jesus.

Anyway back on topic. The cleric saying rape is ok is really misunderstanding his own text. But it might not be his fault. anchient arabic didnt have some of the modern letter they do now and it changes the meanings. The original Koran was lacking the dots and a few other changes in letterings.

(i can already hear the koran is perfect and came as is from Allahs messenger himself already) Unfortunatly Science has disproved it was perfect by a simple side by side look at a modern koran and a anchient one.

reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee


I looked at your link - unfortunately the "translated" version using Google translate was really lame and made it almost impossible to understand WHAT he was saying.

If you read Arabic, would you please translate his statement into proper English for us? I got that the guy hates Assad, and something about outside forces assisting the rebels - and a little bit about talking to Ms Shirin -

If this story has been "spun" - either by the "Austrian" Musliim Women who are going to sue him, OR by media, to be something it was not, we need to know it.

reply to post by wildtimes



We were talking about this last night, and my wife pointed out the inaccuracy of the reports. I'm not the Arab speaker in my home, however I am emailing my wife, and with a bit of patience, I will be able to get it translated from her (But she's working, so it might take a bit).

I will post it in thread when a full transcript is available.

Originally posted by yuppa
This will make it simplier to understand
OT. Is almost all for the hebrew/jews.
NT is for anyone else not related to the jews who accept jesus.

Yeah, this was discussed.

It's all in the Christian Bible. It is all their holy book. Either it's all the Word, or it isn't. People cant claim the bits they like and ignore the bits they don't. Seems a little disingenuous, eh?

Originally posted by DAVID64
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

He should be the first victim.
No lube and make sure there's lots of kicks and punches to enhance the experience.
On second thought, cut off his penis, hand it back and tell him to go f##k himself.

He probably already has bum hole like a clown's pocket!

Spot on with you're rather extreme measure of circumcision since this fool obviously should not be allowed to breed and contaminate the gene pool any further.

I feel sorry for his mother!

Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee

Originally posted by yuppa
This will make it simplier to understand
OT. Is almost all for the hebrew/jews.
NT is for anyone else not related to the jews who accept jesus.

Yeah, this was discussed.

It's all in the Christian Bible. It is all their holy book. Either it's all the Word, or it isn't. People cant claim the bits they like and ignore the bits they don't. Seems a little disingenuous, eh?

It isn't disingenuous if you read the New Testament and see that Jesus refuted portions of the Old Testament... That's why the Jews that were in power at the time wanted him dead.

But that was already discussed.

reply to post by wildtimes


Were if possible to give you one million stars for your rant I would indeed do so.

The collective leaders of the collective nations are mostly only out for themselves and they care little if the civilian population gets in the way of their dreams. Fie on the lot of them.

Originally posted by butcherguy

Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee

Originally posted by yuppa
This will make it simplier to understand
OT. Is almost all for the hebrew/jews.
NT is for anyone else not related to the jews who accept jesus.

Yeah, this was discussed.

It's all in the Christian Bible. It is all their holy book. Either it's all the Word, or it isn't. People cant claim the bits they like and ignore the bits they don't. Seems a little disingenuous, eh?

It isn't disingenuous if you read the New Testament and see that Jesus refuted portions of the Old Testament... That's why the Jews that were in power at the time wanted him dead.

But that was already discussed.

Just stop. It is silly.

Jesus said himself that all of the old rules still apply.

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 5:17-19

This is sad to read. Surely if he understood what rape does to a person then he wouldn't okay it.

Sometimes I really just hate the planet we live on. No empathy anymore. I get that during wartime there is your side and then there is the other but it takes a special kind of scumbag to hurt innocents.

I hope those woman over there don't allow this to break them.

reply to post by wildtimes


I often wonder what people would have said if the US Government (as opposed to some organisations) had decided to back the IRA in it's stand against tyranny and oppression.

Would Europe have backed the IRA as well?

Just when does a faction against a Government become rebels rather than terrorists?

@SeekerOfTruth101

I don't see the OP as anti-muslim, but it is anti the cleric(s) speaking out in this manner, as it should be. It matters not if the 'clerics' are defined as 'holy men'. That is just splitting straws. In Western terms a cleric is an Holy Man - a Man of God and trying to excuse the action of this cleric on that basis is not valid.

I don't see an outcry by the Muslim community, or the World Muslim Council decrying the cleric? Why is that? Maybe I am not looking in the right place. Perhaps you could direct me?

Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee

Originally posted by butcherguy

Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee

Originally posted by yuppa
This will make it simplier to understand
OT. Is almost all for the hebrew/jews.
NT is for anyone else not related to the jews who accept jesus.

Yeah, this was discussed.

It's all in the Christian Bible. It is all their holy book. Either it's all the Word, or it isn't. People cant claim the bits they like and ignore the bits they don't. Seems a little disingenuous, eh?

It isn't disingenuous if you read the New Testament and see that Jesus refuted portions of the Old Testament... That's why the Jews that were in power at the time wanted him dead.

But that was already discussed.

Just stop. It is silly.

Jesus said himself that all of the old rules still apply.

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 5:17-19

Do you know what he was referring to when he said, 'the law'?

You said earlier that the Bible is the holy book. Try Romans 10:4

I couldn't help but notice that you didn't show me how there are countries where Christians are following the Old Testament and raping, and using the Bible to condone it.

This is why islam is not compatible with the world. It breeds way too much backwards, 1000 year old, fundamentalist based thinking, division, separatist thinking.

Examples sprout all over the globe.

Also Catholic priests, and molestation

Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee
It's all in the Christian Bible. It is all their holy book. Either it's all the Word, or it isn't.

It depends on which Christians you are talking about. Some Christian groups think the entire bible is the literal word of God. Some Christian groups think that there are myths and allegories mixed in with the word of God.
Some Christian groups pretty much dismiss the Old Testament because Jesus coming makes the OT laws obsolete. There are disagreements on verses and sinners within all Christian groups. NO main stream christian group calls upon people to rape those what don't worship like them.

Originally posted by PuterMan
I don't see the OP as anti-muslim, but it is anti the cleric(s) speaking out in this manner, as it should be.

There ya' go. I was pretty clear when I stated that something like this coming from a cleric or a holy man - be it Catholic or Protestant or Muslim - is disgusting. But some people go to straw man lengths to try to deflect from truth. It's really strange.

Originally posted by butcherguy

Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee

Originally posted by butcherguy

Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee

Originally posted by yuppa
This will make it simplier to understand
OT. Is almost all for the hebrew/jews.
NT is for anyone else not related to the jews who accept jesus.

Yeah, this was discussed.

It's all in the Christian Bible. It is all their holy book. Either it's all the Word, or it isn't. People cant claim the bits they like and ignore the bits they don't. Seems a little disingenuous, eh?

It isn't disingenuous if you read the New Testament and see that Jesus refuted portions of the Old Testament... That's why the Jews that were in power at the time wanted him dead.

But that was already discussed.

Just stop. It is silly.

Jesus said himself that all of the old rules still apply.

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 5:17-19

Do you know what he was referring to when he said, 'the law'?

You said earlier that the Bible is the holy book. Try Romans 10:4

I couldn't help but notice that you didn't show me how there are countries where Christians are following the Old Testament and raping, and using the Bible to condone it.

edit on 3-6-2013 by butcherguy because: (no reason given)

Romans 10:4 wasn't spoken by Jesus. Matthew 5:17-19 was the word, and as claimed by Christians, The Word always trumps critique of The Word.

Yes, "the law" covers the Books of Deuteronomy and Leviticus, and Jesus was quite clear that he wasn't here to abolish any of it.

There are cults of Christians scattered throughout not only our country but many countries. Take a look at Family International, for instance.

en.wikipedia.org...

There are no state sponsors of religious rape, to suggest otherwise needs some pretty compelling evidence, and a single cleric spouting rubbish (even if it isn't true) is about as convincing as someone saying Fred Phelps speaks for not only all Christians, but all Americans.

reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee

Romans 10:4 wasn't spoken by Jesus.

Oh, so the Bible is only a good source when it is quoting Jesus?

It was the Holy Book it little while ago... anything else you want to change?

Yes, "the law" covers the Books of Deuteronomy and Leviticus, and Jesus was quite clear that he wasn't here to abolish any of it.

How specific was he? Do you notice the word commandments used in what you cited.....the laws of Moses?

There are no state sponsors of religious rape, to suggest otherwise needs some pretty compelling evidence, and a single cleric spouting rubbish (even if it isn't true) is about as convincing as someone saying Fred Phelps speaks for not only all Christians, but all Americans.

You single out Fred Phelps..... He spouts about "God hates fags". Does (even) he condone raping of women, citing the Bible? Do you have some other Christian leader you can cite that does?

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee

 

Romans 10:4 wasn't spoken by Jesus.

Oh, so the Bible is only a good source when it is quoting Jesus?

It was the Holy Book it little while ago... anything else you want to change?

I'm not the one changing, my friend. I'm just pointing out the inconsistencies in the people claiming it is the Word, when The Word contradicts itself. But this isn't the point.

The Bible sanctions rape within its pages, and this is something that the Quran also does.

For the Bibler's to say that they are obsolete in the Bible, and anyone that follows the old laws do not represent them without also accepting that reasoning from Quraners is intellectually dishonest.

reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee

The Bible sanctions rape within its pages, and this is something that the Quran also does. For the Bibler's to say that they are obsolete in the Bible, and anyone that follows the old laws do not represent them without also accepting that reasoning from Quraners is intellectually dishonest.

Maybe if you had a Christian leader condoning rape, as the Imam in question has, you could call both of them apples.