Simple question re: homosexuality

Originally posted by kingofmd
An entire thread based on a straw man, classic ATS. You keep saying "fear", and "afraid" as if the mantra will come true if they are repeated enough. Fact of the matter is, the vast majority who are opposed are not "afraid or scared" of gay marriage they simply disagree that the institution of marraige can be redefined. If I told you the moon is made of green cheese, and you disagree, does that mean you are afraid of the moon? Maybe you all are just terrified of persons who stick to their belief and value systems?

Marriage has already been redefined, my friend. It has already happened.

Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee

Originally posted by XxNightAngelusxX
Yes, I'd like to be able to open my mouth without my inferiors looking down on me.

And before you all blow up on me, I AM NOT referring to gays as inferiors. I'm referring to judgmental crybabies who do exactly what the media tells them as my inferiors.

Yes, exactly. You want your opinions to be without social consequence. Good luck with that one.

Yeah, I get your point.

But being wrongfully judged in any sense bothers me.

Sadly, in our world, there's nothing I can do about it except advocate my own beliefs without backing down, weather the world around me accepts it or not. Ya can't change everyone else.

Originally posted by kingofmd
An entire thread based on a straw man, classic ATS. You keep saying "fear", and "afraid" as if the mantra will come true if they are repeated enough. Fact of the matter is, the vast majority who are opposed are not "afraid or scared" of gay marriage they simply disagree that the institution of marraige can be redefined. If I told you the moon is made of green cheese, and you disagree, does that mean you are afraid of the moon? Maybe you all are just terrified of persons who stick to their belief and value systems?

Marriage is redefined every time a new marriage happens.

Marriages can now be dissolved.
Marriages can now be interracial.
Marriages can or cannot happen between first cousins (depending on state).
Marriages can now happen between people of the same sex.
Marriages can now only be between two people.

Originally posted by XxNightAngelusxX

Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee

Originally posted by XxNightAngelusxX
Yes, I'd like to be able to open my mouth without my inferiors looking down on me.

And before you all blow up on me, I AM NOT referring to gays as inferiors. I'm referring to judgmental crybabies who do exactly what the media tells them as my inferiors.

Yes, exactly. You want your opinions to be without social consequence. Good luck with that one.

Yeah, I get your point.

But being wrongfully judged in any sense bothers me.

Sadly, in our world, there's nothing I can do about it except advocate my own beliefs without backing down, weather the world around me accepts it or not. Ya can't change everyone else.

It is your opinion that you are being wrongfully judged. It's not like you are being judged for something you AREN'T saying, right? That would be a true wrongful judgement.

reply to post by XxNightAngelusxX

Originally posted by XxNightAngelusxX
I don't agree with sexism like that, or racism. Yeah, it annoys me when people talk like that.

But I'm not gonna see gay people the same way I see different cultures or genders.

They aren't the same thing.

Why not?

All I'm saying is, if African Americans can hang around with white people, and those white people are socially permitted to use the "N" word as a term of endearment, I think homosexuals can handle hearing the word "gay" now and then, especially if they themselves aren't the ones being referred to.

In the first example, they are using the "N" word as a term of endearment.
In the second example, the word "gay" is used as an insult or criticism.

And you don't see the difference?

If we were friends and I saw something stupid and said, "Oh! That's SO "male"... Oh, sorry, I wasn't talking about you, I mean "male" in the sense of it being stupid". You wouldn't find that offensive?

Originally posted by kingofmd
If I told you the moon is made of green cheese, and you disagree, does that mean you are afraid of the moon? Maybe you all are just terrified of persons who stick to their belief and value systems?

Well, since the Moon is an actual physical thing and Marriage is a concept I would hope you could see how your comparison isn't valid. You see, things like rocks and trees and moons have real characteristics which we can use to define them. While things like Marriage are NOT real things but are in fact ideas which we define ourselves. We can and do make, change or remove the definitions of made up things all the time.

We're not afraid either, but I for one am getting sick of people who can't tell the difference between their made up Belief and Value Systems with the Real World which we all share together. Your failure to tell the difference between what is Real and What is Make Believe is and has been causing others to suffer needlessly.

Originally posted by kerazeesicko
reply to post by Romeo1

 

So now not being ignorant and not being afraid of things is considered "PC"

PC...means choosing your words and thoughts so as not to offend anyone. Being anti PC....means saying whats on your mind no matter the consequences. I am more of the latter...I am anti PC. I say what I want and do not care what others think. So your being PC is BS...I am not saying what is PC because I do not want to offend..if you read other posts from me on other threads...you would see what I am about. I have been post banned and warned because I say what I want.

I was raised on Hip Hop's Golden Era Mid 90's, and with that, came all the Homophobia. I accepted that and honored the homophobic street code and always upheld it. I also noticed that the Abrahamic Religions are also strictly against it.

I've come to let it go because it does not effect me in any way. Because Jesus and Buddha both teach not to Judge another and to treat others the way you wish to be treated. And also because when I was in Birmingham Alabama, I met a gay guy who was into all the same things I was at the time, good music, good beer, philosophy, metaphysics, Illuminati/NWO and the fight against them .......and we became friends. Later I found out he was gay and was a little confused because he did not seem so. Did not have all the feminine features or notions, etc.

That taught me to accept people as they are. To Love regardless of what/who.

It's in the Human Psyche/Collective Consciousness to hate Minority groups and anything that is out of the norm, I too was once like that

Originally posted by CJCrawley
This has probably been said but people who oppose it are not opposing the fact that two gay people want to spend their lives together; it's the choice of words they don't like.

Marriage, in most people's eyes, involves a male and female.

Being gay, in many people's eyes, is an aberration, however 'normal' it might be for a small minority of the public.

Therefore, to call the gay equivalent 'marriage' is seen by such people as a subversion of normal values.

The problem is merely a semantic one.

Call it something else - problem solved.

It used to be called 'civil partnership' - why not call it that?

Now that sounds dangerously close to a logical personal opinion and interpretation of events.

It can't be. We are flat out not permitted to have personal opinions on Gay matters if those opinions disagree with the 4 - 5% of the population who are Gay themselves. We can be hateful. We can be ignorant. We can even be trolls, R0dents or Shills. What we can't do is have a pure opinion which isn't based on anything negative for a source. Naww..

Just ask the radical elements of the Gay movement....they'll spend however long it takes to insure you're properly educated on the matter, if given half a chance..

Originally posted by dominicus

It's in the Human Psyche/Collective Consciousness to hate Minority groups and anything that is out of the norm, I too was once like that

Excellent post. With that one sentence, you completely answered the OP's question.

No one denies that a black person needs to go to the bathroom...

The offensive part is that they want to go into the bathroom with the wrong word on it.

They can have their own bathroom, it can be labeled as the COLORED bathroom.

Why do they have to use the WHITE bathroom if they have their own??

AM I DOING IT RIGHT?

Originally posted by CyberneticProphet

Originally posted by OpenEars123
I would say that a lot of people who are anti gay marriage or anti gay, are in fact themselves gay or have some secret gay tendencies. Whether they know it or not or if they accept it or deny it, is a whole different subject.

Good question, and good luck when the god squad arrive.

edit on 27/5/13 by OpenEars123 because: (no reason given)

edit on 27/5/13 by OpenEars123 because: My fingers aren't smart phone friendly

This argument has been done to death. You'd think liberals would come up with a new tactic by now. This one doesn't work.

I'm not a liberal, and I had no idea this had been "done to death" as you put it. i am going through what I have learned through life.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000

We are flat out not permitted to have personal opinions on Gay matters if those opinions disagree with the 4 - 5% of the population who are Gay themselves. We can be hateful. We can be ignorant. We can even be trolls, R0dents or Shills. What we can't do is have a pure opinion which isn't based on anything negative for a source. Naww..

Personal opinions are fine. Just don't use those personal opinions to discriminate against others.

reply to post by kaylaluv


Exactly.. We have the Gay Movement's generous permission to hold opinions...as long as they don't disagree in any fundamental way and in NO WAY see Gays as one hair less a cause than Civil Rights for the Black Man to walk down a street without dogs and fire hoses. Some insist the two things have every comparison to each other and make a loud point of it, at that.

I'll have my opinion, anyway..thanks. It is not favorable to Gays, although I'm not hateful and have never been hostile. That's the whole point. A differing opinion need not be hateful or ignorant. Just opposed and from a whole different set of values. I don't agree with the lifestyle or the practice. That's my right and it's my nation to say it in. Period.

Anyone who isn't good with that can have their own opinion. That's the basis of a free nation. It isn't that those with a differing opinion can attack me, ad naseum, until my opinion has been "re-educated". That's tyranny. We have more of it than we have freedom right now and across a wide variety of subjects.

Tyranny of the few upon the many and Freedom for thee but not for me. Oh yes. I get it very well. I've been in this 'fight' to various degrees for too many years not to understand it like fine crystal.

It is your opinion that you are being wrongfully judged. It's not like you are being judged for something you AREN'T saying, right? That would be a true wrongful judgement.

Its not their place to judge me for something when I'm not intentionally wronging anyone.

Why not?

Because genetics and sexual preferences aren't the same thing.

In the first example, they are using the "N" word as a term of endearment. In the second example, the word "gay" is used as an insult or criticism.

And you don't see the difference?

I wasn't using this example based on that difference, I was using it on the basis of their similarity. Neither scenarios depict someone TRYING to offend someone else. So, what's the problem here?

If we were friends and I saw something stupid and said, "Oh! That's SO "male"... Oh, sorry, I wasn't talking about you, I mean "male" in the sense of it being stupid". You wouldn't find that offensive?

No. I'm not a male.

And even then, like I said, that seems a little more tactless. If you say something like that in front of a male friend, you don't care much about their feelings.

But I make a painful effort not to say a lot of the things I used to say. The fact that people around me KNOW this, and they STILL jump all over me about it, annoys me. That's the point where they really need to stop sucking their thumb and whining about it.

I'm not going out of my way to hurt anyone, and I'm doing everything in my power not to offend them.

So, I am not doing anything wrong.

reply to post by darkbake



I see, you don't like gays because they aren't productive. That is actually the reasoning I've heard from some other conservatives, It is kind of sad we are all so afraid to relax, and so eager to slave away. edit on 27-5-2013 by darkbake because: (no reason given)

I do not dislike "gays" I did not claim non productive. That was what Jesus said of the fig tree. I do not dislike anyone. I just want the gays who have an agenda to leave me out of it..I don't accept the lifestyle which requires me to not just agree with it but to also embrace it...I don't and never will...If that makes me a(you put in your preference of what or who I am) then so be it...

Religion is not the only reason for the fear of gay marriage. There are also cultural and ethical reasons. Gay marriage leads to new rights, such as adoption for gay couples. Some people are afraid of how this will effect the development of children. Marriage is still strongly associated with having children, and married gay couples raising children are quite accepted by most now. But this is a relatively new phenomenon, and we are only now beginning to see the first of these children reaching adulthood. I haven't seen any studies on this yet, but would be very much interested in the results if there have been any.

I am not of the opinion that gay parents do not give the same love to their children as heterosexual parents do, but I can understand these concerns. I wonder about certain psychological and sexual patterns that are typically passed on by a male and a female. There are certain dynamics going on in heterosexual couples that are missing, or are different, in gay couples. The same goes the other way around.

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
Very simple question here. It is simple logic that gay marriage cannot and will not effect any person outside of that particular relationship. It cannot effect my marriage. It cannot effect yours.

With that in mind, I have to ask:

Is it possible to give someone something, without taking something away from someone else?

Originally posted by XxNightAngelusxX

It is your opinion that you are being wrongfully judged. It's not like you are being judged for something you AREN'T saying, right? That would be a true wrongful judgement.

Its not their place to judge me for something when I'm not intentionally wronging anyone.

You're still not actually getting it.

You say "That's gay!"
Someone is offended.
You say "I have the right to say that."
Someone says "I have the right to be offended."
You say "I don't think it is right for you to be offended that I said, "That's Gay" when I didn't do it to intentially wrong you.."
Someone says, "I don't think it is right for you to be offended that I want to marry my boyfriend, when I'm not doing it to intentionally wrong you.."

Am I helping at all?

Originally posted by seabag

Originally posted by Casualboy100
I Don't get why rights are being questioned because of church. IS this the 1800s?

Rights aren't being questioned. Nobody is denying anyone the right to form a union.

People are crying because they want EXACTLY the same word (marriage) as straight people. When did a religious ceremony become a right?

I've been married to my high school sweetheart 37 years this October. Over the years we have seen straight people make a complete mockery of something we value/respect.

We married in the church to appease family. Religion had nothing to do with our desire to marry nor did it have anything to do with the fact its lasted so long. Ours is simply a human bond.

When you consider the divorce rate, claims that marriage/religion goes hand/hand clearly shows people haven't been very successful at either. Religion doesn't appear to be the foundation of marriage at all.

Gay people are begging for the very thing that that others routinely sh#% on. How could they possibly make it more of a mockery than straights have? What a crock.

The reactions we get to our long marriage is funny. My hubby gets pats on the back from men while I get "oh you poor thing" from women. WTH??

The hypocritical general public expects to have a say in how marriage is defined yet they obviously have no clue. I would proudly accept anyone into the ranks of marriage. Maybe if straights had shown more respect for marriage I'd feel differently but it is what it is. It's like tossing aside a piece of trash and only seeing its worth when someone else desires it.

In theory some seem to think the term "marriage" is too precious/sanctified to lend to the gay community yet in practice straights have shown it's one of the least important things in modern life.