Simple question re: homosexuality

Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee

Originally posted by XxNightAngelusxX

It is your opinion that you are being wrongfully judged. It's not like you are being judged for something you AREN'T saying, right? That would be a true wrongful judgement.

Its not their place to judge me for something when I'm not intentionally wronging anyone.

You're still not actually getting it.

You say "That's gay!"
Someone is offended.
You say "I have the right to say that."
Someone says "I have the right to be offended."
You say "I don't think it is right for you to be offended that I said, "That's Gay" when I didn't do it to intentially wrong you.."
Someone says, "I don't think it is right for you to be offended that I want to marry my boyfriend, when I'm not doing it to intentionally wrong you.."

Am I helping at all?

I really DO get your point, and I agree.

But MY point is, when I am kicking my own ass OUT of the annoying habit of using "gay" as a negative adjective, certain sensitive individuals in my inner circle know this very well about me, and they STILL whine and nag to me about it when I slip up, that's the line. That's when they cross the border from "offended" to "whining."

My point is, if I'm not going out of my way to offend someone, they're big boys and girls. I think they can handle it.

Of all the things I've heard people say, and all the things I've seen people do, I think the word "gay" should be the least of ANYONE'S problems.

Its too petty of a controversy for me to take seriously.

reply to post by captaintyinknots


It's because people who follow the Bible fear that the world is going down a path much like Sodom and Gamora.

There is, from my perspective, a legal and a religious part of marriage. You and your partner should be able to go to a court house and get a legal document that brings the benefits of being married. But doing it in a church is not up to the government to decide, but the church itself.

My question is, when to guys get divorced, who gets shafted with the alimony payments? It's a divorce lawyer's nightmare.

Originally posted by XxNightAngelusxX
Its too petty of a controversy for me to take seriously.

It is too petty for you, because you aren't barbed by it. You just get annoyed when someone calls you out about it. Imagine being in the shoes of the person that just chewed you out for a moment. How many other good people that just slip up once in a while are out there slipping up every day. Maybe it isn't you every day, but how many of you need to be in this persons life before they hear it every single day?

Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee

Originally posted by XxNightAngelusxX
Its too petty of a controversy for me to take seriously.

It is too petty for you, because you aren't barbed by it. You just get annoyed when someone calls you out about it. Imagine being in the shoes of the person that just chewed you out for a moment. How many other good people that just slip up once in a while are out there slipping up every day. Maybe it isn't you every day, but how many of you need to be in this persons life before they hear it every single day?

No. Its too petty for me, because I've been called a LOT worse things than "gay."

And that, along with being jumped by a bunch of black kids in middle school every day, I simply had to get over. There was no controversy for me.

So, yeah. This crybaby "gay" stuff is petty.

If I can get over that stuff, they can get over the word "gay."

reply to post by XxNightAngelusxX


It seems hard for some to accept the fact that this whole topic is a side issue and passing story to the vast majority of us. I get the impression this is an area some here focus thoughts into, daily, and with real zeal and passion. I kinda worry about that some times. Moderation in all things, eh? Even activism.

reply to post by captaintyinknots


The fact of the matter is that gay marriage is NO longer a social issue. Most young conservatives don't care and support gay right ( which is a stupid way of saying it, but whatever) and there are less and less older conservatives who can hold onto their anti-homosexual stance in light of popular opinion.

With that being said, this whole debate has turned into a money grab. Opposition on both sides of the issue are lining their pockets with campaign contributions, charity donations and salaries from the respective organizations they represent.

There is too much money to be made by keeping this fight alive, so they are. That's not to say they are in cahoots with each other or anything like that, it simply means that much like any fight that goes on too long, both sides loose sight of the original purpose and intent.

They become exactly what they were railing against. In this case, a bunch of extremists arguing over ridiculous demands. All the while becoming rich.

~Tenth

Originally posted by Romeo1

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by Iamschist

 

Originally posted by Iamschist
The scary part is that homosexuality will become accepted as 'normal' by society.

Homosexuality IS normal. Like left-handedness is normal. Homosexuality is not the majority, but it's quite normal, in any population, that a small percentage of the people are gay. It's traditional. It's the truth. Accepting the truth (that homosexuality is normal) is not harmful.

If it's frowned on by your religion, then don't be involved with it. You don't have to accept it. But it is the truth. People are gay. Gay people are citizens. They deserve the same rights under the laws of the land as ALL other citizens.

I bet prostitution isn't "normal" and threatens traditional values, according to your belief system. But prostitutes can marry. Do you "accept" prostitution? No. See? You don't have to accept homosexuality, either.

I bet atheism isn't "normal" and threatens traditional values, according to your belief system. But atheists can marry. Do you "accept" atheism? No. See? You don't have to accept homosexuality, either.

Homosexuality is only normal in your world or your mind if it was normal we wouldnt be having this discussion...yes "these" are people same as me but..I dont go preaching that I have special rights cause Im straight...so you dont get that either cause your gay...and as I said if your gay and you think that all your straight friends are cool with it...well your fooling yourself.
Im just saying what everyone is thinking anyway not bashing...and I was brought up to think of marriage to be man and woman..and Im not regelious..so dont expect me to acknowledge your union or if your in a state that is gay friendly...your marriage. Sorry its just doesn’t seem normal....

edit on 28-5-2013 by Romeo1 because: (no reason given)

Well, you are entitled to your opinion. But: 50 years ago many white people in the US thought being Black was abnormal... Homosexuals are a natural minority according to scientific studies, whether the law or religion forbids it or not. I once thought that it was something to be changed or altered with therapy etc. but since I've had a couple of friends who are gay or bi, I changed my mind... They are just wired differently.
All the same, some religions do not tolerate it - and I would imagine I would have a serious conflict of identity if I were a gay Catholic or one belonging to a more traditional type of Islam...
Marriage? Well, some of these friends wanted to live like committed couples.
Plus legally, if two people got married already, you cannot dissolve that even if you later change the law - unless you introduce Sharia or a Stalinist state etc.

Originally posted by XxNightAngelusxX

Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee

Originally posted by XxNightAngelusxX
Its too petty of a controversy for me to take seriously.

It is too petty for you, because you aren't barbed by it. You just get annoyed when someone calls you out about it. Imagine being in the shoes of the person that just chewed you out for a moment. How many other good people that just slip up once in a while are out there slipping up every day. Maybe it isn't you every day, but how many of you need to be in this persons life before they hear it every single day?

No. Its too petty for me, because I've been called a LOT worse things than "gay."

And that, along with being jumped by a bunch of black kids in middle school every day, I simply had to get over. There was no controversy for me.

So, yeah. This crybaby "gay" stuff is petty.

If I can get over that stuff, they can get over the word "gay."

You think it is about the word 'gay' itself, not about the idea that the very word that is used to identify these people is used a a pejorative term. You have a long way to go in your understanding of the problem.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by XxNightAngelusxX

 

It seems hard for some to accept the fact that this whole topic is a side issue and passing story to the vast majority of us. I get the impression this is an area some here focus thoughts into, daily, and with real zeal and passion. I kinda worry about that some times. Moderation in all things, eh? Even activism.

Yeah. I like to get carried away and passionate with things I see as important, but usually I can define when I'm crossing the line from "passionate" to "obsessed" .... and stop, right before I cross my sanity border.

I feel ya.

I'm not gay, and I don't care if people choose to be or just are. It only effects someone if they choose to have a problem with it.

Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee

Originally posted by XxNightAngelusxX

Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee

Originally posted by XxNightAngelusxX
Its too petty of a controversy for me to take seriously.

It is too petty for you, because you aren't barbed by it. You just get annoyed when someone calls you out about it. Imagine being in the shoes of the person that just chewed you out for a moment. How many other good people that just slip up once in a while are out there slipping up every day. Maybe it isn't you every day, but how many of you need to be in this persons life before they hear it every single day?

No. Its too petty for me, because I've been called a LOT worse things than "gay."

And that, along with being jumped by a bunch of black kids in middle school every day, I simply had to get over. There was no controversy for me.

So, yeah. This crybaby "gay" stuff is petty.

If I can get over that stuff, they can get over the word "gay."

You think it is about the word 'gay' itself, not about the idea that the very word that is used to identify these people is used a a pejorative term. You have a long way to go in your understanding of the problem.

I'm beyond caring about petty crybaby problems.

I think you, along with a lot of other people here, give this small stuff way too much thought.

I don't hurt anyone, so, they can get over it. This whole whiny "I don't like that word! Its offensive!" crap will run its course for everyone involved, excluding people who have engulfed themselves in the petty controversy and live to thrive on it.

The problem is, people get offended over tiny, petty things, when there are a lot bigger issues in the world that they pay no mind to.

That makes the problem petty, and below importance.

If one doesn't look at another's intentions, they might as well be walking around calling everyone the "N" word. A lot of gay-controversy thrivers love to look past intentions, and focus on the words themselves.

That's petty too.

So, again, I ask: What is so scary about gay marriage?

reply to post by captaintyinknots


Let us take a simple approach to the question and it's answer. When Magellan landed in the Philippines, there was trouble. The locals murdered him. This was no isolated incident. Captain Cook was killed by natives in Hawaii. There is a pattern of trouble when different cultures collide. The examples are endless. The Catholics and the protestants in Ireland cannot tolerate each other. But they are all Irish and all Christians. The French and the Germans went to war twice in the 20th century (and have always been hostile towards each other). They are all Catholics (mainly). These observations can teach us about human nature. The question boils down to why are people uncomfortable (or fearful to the point of violence) when faced with others who are different from them? The pattern repeats itself with gays versus straights.

The answer is not with local issues. The answer has to do with human nature. Cortez insisted that the native indians go to church each week and sing anthems. Why? He was uncomfortable because they were not like him. So he used the sword to convert them. You may think the issue was the gold in Mexico. He would have done the same if there was no gold.

We all share the same genes but we do not share the same values. There are places where the natives are head hunters. Some natives eat dogs. Some natives sacrifice their children. The French eat snails. Our values come from our local culture.

Who am I? Even though we are all different, we share a common culture in our neighborhood. I am partly the product of my culture. It took me years to learn what was acceptable in my culture. I grasp these lessons dearly growing up so that I could rest peacefully knowing that I am accepted in my place. I do not like it when I find that other people are not like me. I want every one else to be just like me. When I encounter differences, it challenges my sense of who I am. I get lost. Like in a snow storm that hides all the familiar landmarks. The panic is real. (I do not however remember learning the lessons. I know the numbers are infinite but I do not remember when I learned that lesson.)

So the answer is a universal timeless property of human nature. Gay marriage is scary to straights because it challenges their sense of self.

By the way, most people do not know who they are. That doubles the fear. But that is another thread.

reply to post by captaintyinknots


I honestly feel that a lot of folks who hate on homosexuality (bigots cough cough) hide behind the bible... And what's most frustrating is that these religious types cherry-pick which parts from the bible they will follow and which parts they claim are not important... In my eyes, its all or nothing, you either believe the book for everything is says and stands for or you don't believe a word in it... You can't have it both ways...

Originally posted by XxNightAngelusxX

I'm beyond caring about petty crybaby problems.

I think you, along with a lot of other people here, give this small stuff way too much thought.

I don't hurt anyone, so, they can get over it. This whole whiny "I don't like that word! Its offensive!" crap will run its course for everyone involved, excluding people who have engulfed themselves in the petty controversy and live to thrive on it.

The problem is, people get offended over tiny, petty things, when there are a lot bigger issues in the world that they pay no mind to.

That makes the problem petty, and below importance.

If one doesn't look at another's intentions, they might as well be walking around calling everyone the "N" word. A lot of gay-controversy thrivers love to look past intentions, and focus on the words themselves.

That's petty too.

No, you aren't beyond it, and it isn't petty to you. If you were truly beyond it, like you claim to be, you wouldn't be trying to cease the behavior in the first place. You wouldn't care. You do though. Whether it is the idea that you don't want to be seen as a bigot, or don't want to lose friends, your changing behavior disproves your entire point.

Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee

Originally posted by XxNightAngelusxX

I'm beyond caring about petty crybaby problems.

I think you, along with a lot of other people here, give this small stuff way too much thought.

I don't hurt anyone, so, they can get over it. This whole whiny "I don't like that word! Its offensive!" crap will run its course for everyone involved, excluding people who have engulfed themselves in the petty controversy and live to thrive on it.

The problem is, people get offended over tiny, petty things, when there are a lot bigger issues in the world that they pay no mind to.

That makes the problem petty, and below importance.

If one doesn't look at another's intentions, they might as well be walking around calling everyone the "N" word. A lot of gay-controversy thrivers love to look past intentions, and focus on the words themselves.

That's petty too.

No, you aren't beyond it, and it isn't petty to you. If you were truly beyond it, like you claim to be, you wouldn't be trying to cease the behavior in the first place. You wouldn't care. You do though. Whether it is the idea that you don't want to be seen as a bigot, or don't want to lose friends, your changing behavior disproves your entire point.

The only reason I make an effort to maintain some kind of tact is because it bothers me that no one around me will show anyone the same respect. Demoralization really irritates me.

Its out of respect for other people, not because I personally care about the issue.

It has nothing to do with my beliefs.

I believe in some kind of tact and respect for other people, gay or not.

my fantasy is my ex wife and an ex GF! Can't get the ex wife to go along with it...yet!

I am going to reply in general to most most here.

First off, the BIBLE is a fairy tale, there were many like it even thousands of years before Mark wrote the first Gospel , Hercules was just like Jesus and there were many like him (or fairy tales of a persona similar to Jesus) for thousands of years, I mean even the First Nations had a similar folk lore way before Christianity. So to take a folk lore seriously and then to make it look as historical fact, or even make it real is insanity, I know it sounds harsh but if someone were to read Humpty Dumpty, build a church devoted to it and make a religion out of it, today we would call those people insane.

Secondly, homosexuality has existed since time began, in nature and in humans. Even the man that wrote the Bible and and created Christianity practised homosexuality because it was a lot more excepted back in those days, especially among soldiers. (who were the most devoted to religion). But look at this, were all still here safe and sound even though homosexuality is supposed to destroy us right?

Agriculture is responsible for all this rubbish arguments, agriculture requires the population to reproduce a work force in order to maintain the land, in order to continue feeding the work force. Homosexuality in Agriculture goes against that, that's why people are brainwashed to believe that it can damage society somehow, since our civilization is based on the unsustainable living AKA agriculture.

So I think people are scared of homosexual marriage because they are told it is by the people who are trying to protect their own systems that domesticate all of us. Even though the people that preach their BS onto other's are the one's to break their own laws and policies.

Originally posted by Iamschist
imho Nothing. Comments I have heard indicate it has something to do with what some feel is an attack on the institution of marriage as set forth in the Bible. Personally I can't see how, but these are the same people that get upset about women doing radical things like wearing pants, working outside the home, etc...

What's the divorce rate in the States these days?

There are bigger threats to the "institution of marriage" than something as trivial as sexual orientation.

reply to post by captaintyinknots


If you want to use that kind of excuse to put the ok on it, then go for it. but by doing so you now have to subject everything to that same kind of reasoning. say a man wants to have sex with a dog? whos he hurting? the dog is a dog. keep in mind, were not talking animal rights here.. only humans. Too crude of an example? what about a man that wants to have 5 wives and they all agree its ok. who are they hurting? whats so scary about any of this? im not saying being gay is wrong. Im merely showing you how stupid your thinking is..