Originally posted by ktprktpr
For his time travel, the trick is to minimze the divergence between where you left and where you're going. As I said, Titor doesn't really travel through time, but end up in different universes that resemble our own (like 99%).

Which reinforces my point. With sophisticated equipment, nobody's going to stand around and not notice the time clock problem. Heck, we've known about the Unix one for at least 25 years (I remember studying it and the Y2K problem back at the university) and it's not THAT hard to write an operating system that gets around this very trivial issue.

Originally posted by aukaiman55
Titor said the 2004 election would piss people off

He said 2004-2008 there would be a civil war of Waco events every month

He said by 2008 most people will realize there is a civil war, but before that people will not believe its happening

He said the mass nuking of WW3 would happen in 2015, but I can't recall what he said about Hawaii (I live in hawaii 0.0)

Anyway, IF people on THIS WEBSITE are still questioning the existance of a civil war by 2006, titor is fake.

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havaii+alaska is not USA --- come back 48 stars OK. chapo

Byrd - You are confusing the ease of a solution with the ease of implementation.

How would you propose getting this code, which requires modern day knowledge (now) in a time that has been ravaged by war and what not, onto old equipment? A lot of it (see the Titor project) is on hard coded platforms, like hydrolic system controllers, etc. The infrastructure for mass producing wafer boards, for replacing equipment, is mostly gone.

I will look into your contention in more detail when I get home after work.

cheers
ktpr

I appreciate you debunking, the debunking.

I am not well versed in the laws of Physics, nor Unix code, so it is quite the bonus to have someone defend John Titor, while himself remaining impartial. In fact I would call that rather grown up of you, lol.

I found his writings an interesting read, I myself only found one divergence which makes me more skeptical than not, it was his references to IT and Ginger, which we now all know of as Segway the Personal Transport.

In fact Ginger was the "IT" girl of 2000/2001, pardon the pun. So I can see how this from a more skeptical point of view, the timeliness matches the year(s). In 2002/2003 Segway was what it became released and commonly known as. With Titor's writings, if he is from a closely related universe to our own, does that 2% divergence reflect in the name differences and speculation that Ginger and IT are the evil terminator esque AI's of his time?

Just musing...

-ADHDsux4me

The thing I love about the John Titor is that it doesn't matter if he's a fraud. A great many people fail to realize this. But you can still derive great meaning from fiction. In anycase, allow me to move my tired mind to block Byrd's offensive...

Okay. Let's see what we got. It's charged that having to go back in time to get an old computer that had an undocumented translation function (for translating APL, Basic and something else that escapes my mind) is silly. Okay fine. So what? Well, this raises greater questions:

1. Why go back when everything's probably on 128 bit machines?

2. Why don't they just write an OS to get around this? It's the future and they have time travel for christs sake. They should notice this problem before it gets big.

Okay. Point 1. If everything was on newer machines, then by his story, he wouldn't be here in the first place. So obviously, according to Titor and his 2036, there's some important stuff running 32 bit code. Now he has a problem to solve, why didn't people in 2036 A) foresee this problem and B) whip up some code to solve it (patch systems, etc).

A) Why didn't they foresee this problem?

25 November 2000 13:59

On my world line, it is known that the 5100 series is capable of reading all the IBM code written before the widespread use of APL and Basic. Unfortunately, there are none left that anyone can find on my world line.

Okay, great. They need the 5100 to translate stuff they can't now. Why don't they just hunker down and whip up some code that'll translate it?

Well, one assumption, not a outrageous one at that, is that since most of the cities got taken out by Ruskie nukes ... well .. not many computer nerds will be left. Okay, so what? You still have country computer nerds, etc. Well, in the interim period between the war (2015?) and 2036 there's a lot of living that has to go on. The point I'm making here is that the number of assembly programmers is going to go waaaayyy down. But that doesn't exclude the possibilty. It just ruins the probability (if you get my distinction).

Okay. But, still, why didn't they use some foresight? I present you with another quote:

30 December 2000 13:37

I will explain further. In 2036, it was discovered (or at least known after testing) that the 5100 computer was capable of reading and changing all of the legacy code written by IBM before the release of that system and still be able to create new code in APL and basic. That is the reason we need it in 2036.

Well hotdog damn. In 2036, it was discovered ... They just found out. Call them sloppy. Call them dumb. Call them stupid. But hey, they're trying to just start a country. Most of America has been scounrging around for a number of years. For whatever reason, they just discovered that's that the computer they need. Also note

15 November 2000 14:41

The first "leg" of my trip was from 2036 to 1975. After two VGL checks, the divergance was estimated at about 2.5% (from my 2036). I was "sent" to get an IBM computer system called the 5100. It was one the first portable computers made and it has the ability to read the older IBM programming langages in addition to APL and Basic. We need they system to "debug" various lagacy computer programs in 2036. UNIX has a problem in 2038.

08 November 2000 22:27

(1.Without going into detail what you are here specifically for can you please explain what the primary purpose of time travel is in the future?)
In 2036, a great deal of effort is going into "repairing" our environment. I was sent to 1975 to get a computer system and take it back to 2036. Time travel is not a secret in 2036 and I expect it will become more common.

(My fingers tire of me ...)

Okay. Recap. Titor is going back as part of a general mission to "repair" the environment (presumably the electronic infrastructure that's been bombed out, unused, destroyed, etc etc). Note that the implication that he's fixing the Unix 2038 problem. But wait a second ...

11 January 2001 11:49

I don't believe I ever said I came back looking for a UNIX bug fix. I came back for a computer system. Don't you find UNIX usefull now?

Whoop. Dere it is. Now we get to dance in the field of semantics and assumptions. If you look in the above quotes, he never actually said, "I went back to get get a computer so that we could fix the 2038 UNIX problem." He actually said that he went back to A) get a computer and B) as part of a more general "repair" mission.

His mission doesn't seem so silly now, does it? You have a man with a limited time frame, the need for a computer that runs pre APL/BASIC IBM code for mainframe type iron (Big Iron). I have shown, with these quotes, that Byrd's assumption is invalid because it is based untruth. Titor did not go back to get a computer to solve the 2038 UNIX problem. He went back for other reasons.


Can I get a Way Above ?

ADHDsux4me- I will service your question around my lunch break if i can.

Well, that was quite a lunch break. Went on and on ...

Let's see here. Your question wasn't entirely clear. But from what i gather you're saying that Ginger and IT refer to the same product, but from different timelines. You say the difference of names might point to part of a 2% divergence, etc.

Well, logically, as things divergence they become different. But Ginger and IT were both used before Segway came out. So, in Titor speak, if you will, they're from the same time line. No divergence here.

Yes, the matter of Ginger and IT.

In the light to purpote that he is a hoax, the eventual name for Ginger was Segway. This was brought into current knowledge after John Titor "went back home". If her were truly from the future and spoke about Ginger freely, you'd think he would have called it Segway.

In 2000/2001 all the hub-bub about Segway was shrouded in Mystery, what it was, what it will do, etc. From my interepertation, he didn't know either and painted it to be similar to Cyberdyne systems from the Terminator series.

If he was truly from our future, he would have known Ginger was just a neato "Scooter". LOL

Having the safety net of a 2.5% divergence if he were here to defend himself, I guess Ginger falls into that 2.5% divergence. Segway, is a Scooter, and So was Ginger/IT.

-ADHDsux4me

Originally posted by ADHDsux4me
Yes, the matter of Ginger and IT.

In the light to purpote that he is a hoax, the eventual name for Ginger was Segway. This was brought into current knowledge after John Titor "went back home". If her were truly from the future and spoke about Ginger freely, you'd think he would have called it Segway.

Well you can assume that, but just because you think someone would say something doesn't make my assumption any less valid. I assume he wouldn't erally give a crap and would call it what it was called in that time frame. He did not want to leak certain kinds of future information.

In 2000/2001 all the hub-bub about Segway was shrouded in Mystery, what it was, what it will do, etc. From my interepertation, he didn't know either and painted it to be similar to Cyberdyne systems from the Terminator series.

whoa, where do you get that!?

As an aside, for Byrd and Kano, I consider Titor's story to remain self consistent, as your objections have been resolved generally.

John Titor predicted nothing - give it a rest!

It is now November 12, 2004 and there have been no "Waco-type" events every month like Titor said there would be.

Also he said the U.S. would waver on our support for Israel in 2004. Well, that certainly did not happen, in fact just the opposite! And now with Araft dead (hmmm, Titor never mentioned that one!) you can expect Israel to take this opportunity to terrorize even moreso while things are in turmoil.

And of course people won't like who is president. You can't please everyone!

Not to mention I did some research on Titor's posts which no one else had done. I examined the times and dates in which he posted and there was a large increase of posts on Friday night and the weekend, and a much lesser amount during the week. This hints to the fact that he was pre-occupied Monday-Friday, i.e. he had a job. And if he had a steady job then that makes his case as a time traveller really weak.

Furthermore, Titor never said anything about 9/11...not one single word! I'm sorry, but to mention the stupid Segway and not mention 9/11 at all is highly suspect.

qonox

why the hell is talk about titor still around? I was pretty sure it was a dead topic when it was discovered that EVERYTHING he said came from a book that was written in the 40's or 50's. And when i say everything, i mean EVERYTHING! Waco Type events, the county in florida, the capital in Omaha, the 5 seperate regions of America. Jon Titor was just a loser who was having fun with people. LET THE TOPIC OF HIM DIE! I dont remember the name of the book but im sure if you do a search on google for disproving Jon Titor you will figure out what the title of the book is. 2.5% isn't much of a difference. You are going to argue that 9/11, which is the sole reason for the start of this "civil war" we have going on, wasn't even mentioned by him and he is real? You are going to say that he is real even though Yaser Arafat died and now we are strengthening our ties with Israel, when he said we would do the exact opposite. These aren't miniscule 2.5%'s these are MASSIVE 50%. Without 9/11 we dont have a huge voter turn out, there is no farenheit 9/11, we dont invade Iraq, atleast that i know of, we dont invade Afghanistan, and we aren't in a WORLD involving fight! He is a fake, stop wishing he is true!

Just a word about that:

1. Why go back when everything's probably on 128 bit machines?

Our 64 bit Unix Machines still use the old Epoch for backwards compatibility. The only way to fix epoch would be to write a new one and make all programs use it.
I still don´t get why he has to get this specific machine as he could just buy some books on unix programming and recreate epoch from scratch.
But we do not know enough about his time to say.

Originally posted by Ryanp5555
why the hell is talk about titor still around? I was pretty sure it was a dead topic when it was discovered that EVERYTHING he said came from a book that was written in the 40's or 50's. And when i say everything, i mean EVERYTHING! Waco Type events, the county in florida, the capital in Omaha, the 5 seperate regions of America. Jon Titor was just a loser who was having fun with people. LET THE TOPIC OF HIM DIE! I dont remember the name of the book but im sure if you do a search on google for disproving Jon Titor you will figure out what the title of the book is. 2.5% isn't much of a difference. You are going to argue that 9/11, which is the sole reason for the start of this "civil war" we have going on, wasn't even mentioned by him and he is real? You are going to say that he is real even though Yaser Arafat died and now we are strengthening our ties with Israel, when he said we would do the exact opposite. These aren't miniscule 2.5%'s these are MASSIVE 50%. Without 9/11 we dont have a huge voter turn out, there is no farenheit 9/11, we dont invade Iraq, atleast that i know of, we dont invade Afghanistan, and we aren't in a WORLD involving fight! He is a fake, stop wishing he is true!

I am truly curious; what was the title and author of the book?

For someone to answer questions in real-time and have a story that rings fairly true, one certainly has to ask some serious questions.

For starters, he would have to have mapped out a VERY DETAILED idea of his "hoax" if it was a hoax.

Remember the old addage; there's no point in lying as it becomes very hard to remember your lies. On the other hand, if Titor had a photographic memory and this was a "hoax" then he could have pulled this one off (regarding the remembering of his lies so they all tied in to create a fairly believable truth).

I have read the Titor scripts and I still haven't decided. I actually spoke to a very intelligent gentleman the other night who gave me a theory regarding time travel that totally freaked me out. I have since given him this sites' URL pointing to the Titor archives.

I know he's going to be very freaked out when he reads the part regarding the two singularities and the "remaining in position" aspect of time-travel.

The previous posteris correct, i think it was babylon lost or something like that, but the people really researching this thing found that out. Also, the lunacy of a micro black hole bending a pen light but nothing else. Also, the lawyers connected with the john titor association and the books signed by his 'mom' that were sold and various other garbage that happened give one pause. Irregardless, 2004 is when definite 'happens or else its fake' things were supposed to start. Every month there was supposed to be something just like the branch davidian waco complex raid happening. Nothing like i has happened. Also, the entire titor story reads, literally, like a radical right wing anti-federalist militiaman's wet dream, right down to the 'enemy', the Federal American Empire and the city people who were so degenerate as to give up their freedoms for nothing. The story's over. Its 2004, the stuff that was required to happen hasn't, titor was a fraud.

I"m going to get all over this sometime this weekend

But I still see people lack the ability to read; I explicitly cited Titor saying that he did not go back in time to fix 32 bit Unix.

qonox - can you look into the JT project and pull out the quotes that you're talking about?

[edit on 12-11-2004 by ktprktpr]

I believe the book to which everyone is referring is Alas, Babylon by Pat Frank. It's a classic sci-fi novel set in a post-apocalyptic late 1950's Florida community. I didn't do a search in the past Titor discussions so I'm not positive but I'm pretty sure this is supposed to be the book everyone says he robbed some, if not most, of his ideas from. I have no idea if that's true or not as I've not read the book but being a sci-fi fan, I think I will wind up reading it one day anyway. I hope that info helps but, of course, if I confused the title, someone please let me know. In fact, if I remember correctly, I believe people were saying he stole his ideas from that book and one other possible source as well though I don't recall which one. Does anyone else remember the other source I seem to recall? I can't do a search on it since I don't remember the name.

Did'nt he say something about investing in hydrogen fuel cells?
I read that GM and Shell have installed the first pump at a store not long ago.
Maybe he did know some kind of classified information???
Just a thought.

Originally posted by trek315
I believe the book to which everyone is referring is Alas, Babylon by Pat Frank. It's a classic sci-fi novel set in a post-apocalyptic late 1950's Florida community. I didn't do a search in the past Titor discussions so I'm not positive but I'm pretty sure this is supposed to be the book everyone says he robbed some, if not most, of his ideas from. I have no idea if that's true or not as I've not read the book but being a sci-fi fan, I think I will wind up reading it one day anyway. I hope that info helps but, of course, if I confused the title, someone please let me know. In fact, if I remember correctly, I believe people were saying he stole his ideas from that book and one other possible source as well though I don't recall which one. Does anyone else remember the other source I seem to recall? I can't do a search on it since I don't remember the name.

I think the other book is Timeline by Michael Crichton. Scientists develop a time machine based on the development of quantum technology.The main character is hurled back in time to Medieval France.

The John Titor story could relate to almost any time travel novel.