That wouldn't be the point. One of the most effective forms of control is fear. We have been learning that here in the US for the past 4 years.

Take away a few people who seem like average joes, and other average joes start to think it could happen to them if they aren't careful.

You need not have cameras in houses. Just nervous neighbors. Say you don't get the paper like everyone else on the block and your gossipy next-door gets it in her head that there is something wrong with that. So, she contacts someone and says that you are behaving strangely. Suddenly, there's a black van in your driveway.

Governments, especially the one we are currently saddled with, are mainly preoccupied with self-preservation. Fear is a tool to that end.

Titor was a lier and a scam. Prolly a little kid, why wont this drop?

Originally posted by zsandmann
Titor was a lier and a scam. Prolly a little kid, why wont this drop?

k, he was a liar & a little kid.. do the same thing he did please or invent something yourself, if u can.. LOL

Originally posted by SkyFox2
While I did look into Titor subjectively, I no longer can do that as I have concluded, rather quickly, that Titor is a false profit, if you will.

One reason for this is I don't believe time travel is or ever will be possible, time is what you make of it, an illusion, not something that can be harnessed or altered in any way other than what we are and always have been doing. Even if it was possible, I don't think the "Back to the Future" car would be the way to go about it.

Another reason is Titor is quite vague with his statments, he doesn't seem to have any detail, but only what a generic view of what occured.

Yet another, Titor stated "we should not eat meat of an animal which eats other dead animals" or something to that effect. That's in the bible, it's a sin to eat scavengers.

The biggest reason of all, though, is that he is telling us what is to happen. He states that we are a different "world line" and because of this, if anything is changed, it will have no affect on his origional world line. This is why he can tell us what's going to happen. However, he doesn't go into detail, because he doesn't want to mess up the natural order, he has said, right? Then why say anything at all? Wouldn't it be best not to interfere in any sense if you wish to keep the "natural order" ..?

Plus, he has gone back in time and returned to his true time before. This isn't possible as if he goes back in time, he would not be returning to his origional timeline, but instead a totally different future. It may appear the same, but the people are not the same. This would make time travel one-way and unproductive. Sending a man back in time to solve a problem will only solve that problem for another worldline. Someone from another wordline may not actually come into yours and solve the problem for you..you see?

Anyways, I doubt Titor is true, however his predictions do seem possible. I could see these events occuring, I always expected something of that nature to accur *around* that time frame. Logic, I spose. If these events do occur, it doesn't mean Titor has told the truth. Titor will always be a debateable subject no matter what. Excuses can always be made up, whether or not his story comes to life.

He explained why he was so vague. Remember his reference to WWII? About Germany building the atom bomb all by themselves? And he did tell us that our timeline is different just because he is there. He couldn't make it any more same than his was. If he never came back, then our timeline would have been exactly what his was. He explained that if he didn't change our worldline, then he would go back to his future, with in .00001 seconds after he left. But if he did change it, which he most likely did, he would never see his true future again, yet a similar one. Most likely a worst one. (Him being here stopped Y2K, remember?)

For the record, I do believe in John Titor.

-Chris

Originally posted by Viendin
[QUOTE]I don't think its could be covered up. The governement is strong, but not omnipotent, and with stuff like that happening every month, I just don't think it'd be possible to keep it that quite. Besides, why cover it up? You are crushing these rebels, better to let them know that they infact don't stand a chance.[/QUOTE]

The Patriot Act allows for random searches without warrants,

Where does it allow this? It relaxes the rules for warrants, as far as I understand it, and allows the government to do 'sneak and peek' searches, bnut it doens't allow it to raid homes without going to a judge.

random indefinite detainment with no charge,

Again, where does patriot allow this? The only citizen being held indefinitely without formal charges isbeing held as an enemy combatant, and has nothing to do with patriot.

Basically, a guy could smash your door down[...]you wouldn't be seen again for years.

Sure, in some fantasy world. This is not what patriot allows.

That's legal. He might not even put the surveillance equipment in - but he can. He can put microphones everywhere, and there isn't piddly you can do about it.

Because of the Patriot Act, murder can be committed

There is no portion of the Patriot Act that allows this.

I'd already have gotten a group of friends together and started trying to incite true revolution,

Undoubetdly there are people doing just that. And hopefully they are being monitored and subjected to sneak and peek searches, and infiltrated by government agents. If they ever do rise up in 'revolution', they'll be smashed nicely.

If what John Titor says happens to be true, well, I think I know his Farmer General.

Again, the titor story is lifted from a fiction book. And the 'Farmer General' bit is right wing militia fantasy.

contingency plan when he was younger about what to do if the government ever got drunk on it's own power.

Gosh, wonder how many pre-college gun lovers in oklahoma ever did any of that...

he would continue to go out and look for people, only, with larger and larger groups,

Until their gaggle is straffed by overflying get, helicpters, armoured vehicles, or, heck, just a squad of police. And if the poo really hit the fan, who is to say that they wouldn't be wiped out by any one of the dozens of other militias romaing the country side right now? Heck, how can this ad hoc milita compete with these other well armed and fortified militas, and the american military on top of it?

and the GO would realise that he was no longer saving individual farmers from wrongful arrest - he was now, in a way, commanding an army.

And army like this roving the countryside would be an extreme situation, and call for extreme measures. Like tactical nuclear weapons and VX gas. Can this 'general farmer' sew together a couple of thousand of air tight self contained breathing suits? And fight off attacks from the United States Army? I don't doub that these people could survive and make do in small small groups, but not a large and in anyway organized military.

Anyway, anyone can come up with some scenario by which this stuff happens, but thats just fiction. People aren't going to start running around in shotgun brigades to fight off some ludicrous 'American Federal Empire' anytime soon. Just look at the name 'Federal Empire'. Titor's bit is straight out of militiaman fantasy. Its almost like 'The Turner Diaries' in that respect.




If you managed, somehow, to put two black holes right beside each other
I don't think that any of us here are astro or particle physicists. It shoudl suffice to say that the stuff 'titor' talks about is completely contrary to science, and sense, since he expects it all to develop in some post armageddon city-less 'confederacy' wherein Universities have been turned into Fortresses and there is no large tax program or federal science groups to direct the whole thing. Exactly how these people manage to maintain anything like a modern science research programme is pretty much unthinkable and then they're supposed to make, litereally, quantum leaps in science beyond what's even vaguely thought of as probably not beign possible now? With out universities and research labs and funding for it all? In some post apocalypse world where who knows what is going on outside the US?

-- I think it could be done with superconductors, that's why I'm still trying to work this out, but it would seem like his dual singularity idea has a tiny bit of a possibility. If we can be clever enough to find loopholes around this, then John Titor's time-travel/universe-travel device could be feasible
YOur physics teacher probably said it best, if you are going to ignore so much of whats know about phyiscs, you can make anything up. Why even talk about 'black hole singularities' (that he walk aroudn with in a metal box none the less) in the first place, everything else is being made up. Might as well say that his time machine runs on 'super chronofuel' or 'reverso tachyzeons' or something. If the time travel phyiscs is to be considered at all, then it has to be rejected, or at the very best logged as 'uninformative'.

Originally posted by Legend
He explained why he was so vague. Remember his reference to WWII? About Germany building the atom bomb all by themselves? And he did tell us that our timeline is different just because he is there.

He 'explained' that time travel operates by going to different 'timelines' rather than traveling back in time on his own line, and can only go to ones that are with in a certain percentage different. Which doesn't really make sense, because, since the whole 'infintie quantum universes' idea is about qsub atomic particles diverging on their own histories, then extremely insignificant changes woudl require a large 'percentage' of change. I mean, he can go ot oen where germany buitl a nuclear bomg in wwii, but was mysteriously defeated, but then couldn't go to oen where plants use a blue pigment in stead of green (this woudl of course require every plant in history to be differnent, why wouldn't that be a huge 'percentage' difference)? BAsically, it was a cop out. If things don't work out, well its just because this is a slightly different time line, or his beingt here changed things, or whatever. These ideas effectively made the situation no different if the story is true or not. Nothing that what he said is at all relevant, by implication, because there is no reason to think that anything is like what he says.

For the record, I do believe in John Titor.

Why? Especially since so much of the detail in the story was supposed to be lifted from that book?

Until I read that book that everyone seems to be talking about, I will continue to believe in John Titor. Maybe some of what he said was also in the book? It could have been a coincidence.

Just because the book was a work of fiction, it doesn't mean that NOTHING can relate to the book.

(I am sorry if you can't understand what I am typing, I woke up no more than three minutes ago)

-Chris