Why can't any of the debunkers pull up quotes from the Titor archives? if you're going to make an assertion, for the love of god, support it. This is about denying ignorance and it works both ways. If you can't cut it, you just got cut.

Originally posted by XPhiles
The John Titor story could relate to almost any time travel novel.

I think Alas Babylon wasn't a sci fi novel. And, according to people who read it, it wasn't just the overall 'time travel' idea that was lifted. It was events and anectdotes and the 'history' of the fictional world, right down to living in florida and his dad selling oranges after the apocalypse and what not. From what I understand, the similiarities are so huge, that anyone who beleives in titor is really really supposed to read this book and see for themselves.

colbrezharly
He said that it was a typo, and the events would start in 2005

And when it doesn't start in '05, was it a typo that should've read '06?

crash
Is this a deffenition of what he meant by a wacko event

Waco. Not wacko, waco. Waco was where a religious cult holed itself and its 'army' in a compound in texas. The feds wanted to arrest them on weapons charges or some such. After having the compound surrounded for a while they stormed it. A fire broke out. The feds said a smoke grenade set it off. It was, I think, part of Mcveigh and Nichols' motivation for the Oklahoma City bombing. The john titor story is deeply set in the radical right wing anti-federalist militia movement. They expected things like Ruby Ridge and Waco to become much more common. So what he was talking about wasn't bizzare events (that link doesn't work by the way), it was 'citizens/patriots' having their military compounds invaded by an evil federalist monster. i /think/ bush is seen as one of the 'good guys' in this movement tho, and I don't recall titor being particularly unhappy about bush.

what do you want us to do type the book out so you can read it yourself. Go to your local library, check it out, and read it. You will see.

Nygdan

And when it doesn't start in '05, was it a typo that should've read '06?

He stated that it was a typo, and I think everybody also missed when talked about what the "war" was going to look like. Until 2008 that is, he said that we would know for sure then.

Where did Titor state that it was a typo?

Originally posted by Nygdan
Where did Titor state that it was a typo?

Posted by John Titor on 02-12-2001 11:51 PM
It’s 2005. I apologize for a missed key (very observant – we all need good critics). Perhaps our definition of war is different. I would define it as a conflict where organized groups engage in maneuver and armed conflict. The first U.S. civil war lasted 4 years and the English civil war lasted 6. How long is too long?

Yes, i understand you are saying that he said that, but where did this quote come from? THe way its set up, its indicating it was from ATS, but he wasn't posting in ATS, he ws just posting on iRC channels.

so, where is John Titor now? did he go back to 2036, did he die, where is he at/?

I have enjoyed everybodies input so much I can't resist putting my two cents in .... So the question in my thoughts what would be the spark that would ignite a civil war ? OK here goes !! A sudden and dramatic increase in the intrest rate causing about 40% of the home owners who have adjustable mortage rates to pay a huge amount on home loanpayments while their credit cards go through the roof. As more and more Americans get left out of the American dream . I see millions of people just getting by now but to hear these Washington beltway economist one would think the future is secure nothing could be farther from the truth and both parties have whitewashed the problem of how our own government has supported institutionalized corporate corruption that favors the concentration of wealth into a few hands at the expense of the american working class , while working class america suffers the both parties are concerned with stuffing re-election coffers with corporate kickbacks. another way of saying PAC or political action commities . I see this whole mess collapsing as the dollar devalues. The taxpayers are already fed up?

Originally posted by Nygdan

colbrezharly
He said that it was a typo, and the events would start in 2005

And when it doesn't start in '05, was it a typo that should've read '06?

No, but then again he said that we would know for sure in 2008, that the world we lived had changed. I don't think that there will be "fighting in the streets" until then or maybe even after. The lines won't be really drawn until then. The "rebels", "terrorists" will be postioning themselfs until then.

Quick question about the The Time Travel Forum:

I noticed the admin goes by the name 'John'. Is this John Titor?

Um….I remain neutral on Titor. The debunking of the laser beam appears pretty strong BUT since I have never seen a laser beam approaching a massive, localized, gravity field I reserve judgment.

However, if we were having “waco style” events in the current Patriot Act environment are you necessarily sure we would have seen them on the news? Are you sure the raids would not have been suppressed for national security. This would not be incredibly difficult if they occurred in remote, rural areas.

That is, perhaps some events have occurred and we don’t find out about a lot of them until a bit later…like 2006-2007 time frame?

Maybe by 2005 some of these sieges backfire or happen in more urban areas. This would make media coverage almost impossible to suppress.

I read this Titor stuff and I look at the economic clues laying all around us and it looks very scary right now folks.

Okay, I first wish to inform everyone that I would call about a 60% chance of John Titor's future happening. This means that I am overall more for it than against it, and I will get to that later, but first I have to debunk some bad science.

Ktprktpr: The reason that 'Gravitational Lensing' works the way as shown in the link you gave us, is that it shows a quasar emitting light on the other side of a galaxy. There is no refraction of light in air-particles, and the light is not travelling from nearby the viewer, to far away.

In the example you provided, we had a light source being bent from the other side of a distinct gravitational entity, it was being bent towards us so we could see the quasar. This is something completely different.

This is a laser beam, which is normally invisible, being made visible by refracting through cigar smoke.

We are seeing the reflections of a laser beam's light. We aren't looking at a physical object known as a 'beam' being bent, we are merely indirectly observing the laser's beam by the refracting photons that bounce back to our eyes. When the laser light is supposedly bent around the singularity, the refracted light being sent back at us would also be bent, making the beam, in the eyes of the observer, appear to be straight.

Bah, I shall return.

Originally posted by MrNice
The debunking of the laser beam appears pretty strong BUT since I have never seen a laser beam approaching a massive, localized, gravity field I reserve judgment.

I really think that having so much of the story be lifted right out of the sci-fi book pushes it far beyond beleif tho.

However, if we were having “waco style” events in the current Patriot Act environment are you necessarily sure we would have seen them on the news?

You mean where every month another fortified compound full of heavily armed militiamen are stormed by the federal government? I do think it would make the news. Patriot act anyway has nothing to do with supressing that kind of information.

Are you sure the raids would not have been suppressed for national security.

I don't think its could be covered up. The governement is strong, but not omnipotent, and with stuff like that happening every month, I just don't think it'd be possible to keep it that quite. Besides, why cover it up? You are crushing these rebels, better to let them know that they infact don't stand a chance.

[QUOTE]I don't think its could be covered up. The governement is strong, but not omnipotent, and with stuff like that happening every month, I just don't think it'd be possible to keep it that quite. Besides, why cover it up? You are crushing these rebels, better to let them know that they infact don't stand a chance.[/QUOTE]

The Patriot Act allows for random searches without warrants, random indefinite detainment with no charge, and random surveillance.

Basically, a guy could smash your door down, search your house, tell you you were coming with him, and then tell your mother that she was under surveillance, and that he had planted cameras throughout the house, and that if she ever tried to tell anyone, the government would find out about it, and they'd come for her too. Then he'd leave with you, put you in a small jail cell, and you wouldn't be seen again for years.

That's legal. He might not even put the surveillance equipment in - but he can. He can put microphones everywhere, and there isn't piddly you can do about it.

Families can go missing, neighbours can be threatened. Because of the Patriot Act, murder can be committed -and, as the phrase goes- gotten away with.

This is your world, this is your government, who supposedly works for you. If I were an American, I'd already have gotten a group of friends together and started trying to incite true revolution, because it is by now obvious that America must be woken up, and must destroy the shackles that are holding it down.

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The Second Part Of My Post!
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The Man In Oklahoma!

If what John Titor says happens to be true, well, I think I know his Farmer General. I won't give contact information, for his protection and well-being, but, I know a guy about 20 or so in Omaha, Nebraska, who has a high IQ, is a community-leader, owns a number of acres that are no longer farmed, but once were, knows the ins and outs of his guns, is looked up to by everyone he knows as a leader, and actually created a contingency plan when he was younger about what to do if the government ever got drunk on it's own power.

Before I told him about the whole thing - I asked him, how many people were there that were around as smart as him, within 2-3 years of his age, who were active in the community, and could be described as farmers, that lived in the Omaha area - he said it's definitely less than 5. So, it sounds like, if there's gonna be a Farmer General, he's it. I took a moment or two and thought out simple scenarios for the achieve his being the leader of an American Rebel Army - and I'll put them up here in a moment.

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The Great Plan!
----------------------

My friend, whom I shall now refer to as the General From Omaha, of GO, would be driving along in the country (as he actually does regularly, because he loves the outdoors and the country as opposed to the city he lives in) and he would then see a black unmarked van parked out front of a house with people who he knew - and the situation would not feel right.

He'd pull over, get out, see the husband being pulled into a van, then the van would pull away, and he'd run in to find the rest of the family huddled together, he'd learn that the father of the family had just been taken for no apparent reason, and then he'd help them, and he'd tell people and he'd decide to go trouble trouble.

He'd get a weapon, and then he'd go driving around looking for more black vans, and sure enough find one, and he'd impede the arrest. From this, he would continue to go out and look for people, only, with larger and larger groups, and this would spread. Those he saved would think of him as the leader of their group, those they saved would simply be referred to him.

Similar movements would take place across the country - but those in coastal areas would move inland, finding an already large group that knows the area, with this GO as the leader. These new groups would now have a more powerful backing and would continue to spread outward, absorbing smaller groups when they came into contact. There would be losses, but overall, the group would simply continue to grow. Eventually, it would be a sizeable force, numbering in the thousands or tens of thousands, and the GO would realise that he was no longer saving individual farmers from wrongful arrest - he was now, in a way, commanding an army.

This army would continue it's work and try to make it's voice heard, living chiefly away from the cities, and eventually, the American Government would be forced to realise that this was an enemy that needed to be dealt with, and the civil war would be begun. I think that this is something that could happen by 2008, though perhaps on a smaller scale. It could be full-swing in 6 years, before 2010.


Of course, it isn't like this is how it 'has to happen', this is just something that I thought of, that interestingly corresponded to my friend's long-ago thought up contingency plan. If Titor's future happens, this is one of many scenarios, and is likely quite flawed, but is a possibility.

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The Science!
----------------

Just last week, I was thinking about this.

If you managed, somehow, to put two black holes right beside each other, then there is a possibility that their mass would curve spacetime in such a way that there would be no point of infinite density. That they would manage to hold open a spacetime hole seems to be the consequence - my physics teacher said "Well, maybe, but if you're going to just break the laws of physics and hold those two objects apart somehow, then, you might as well just break the laws of physics and pass the light barrier."

-- I think it could be done with superconductors, that's why I'm still trying to work this out, but it would seem like his dual singularity idea has a tiny bit of a possibility. If we can be clever enough to find loopholes around this, then John Titor's time-travel/universe-travel device could be feasible. We'll have to see - if my friend is the farmer general, he'll likely be one of the first to hear about a rebellion.

[edit on 1-12-2004 by Viendin]

I don't quite understand why the government would do things like put surveillance into people's houses randomly. Simply because they have the ability to keep track of a few bad apples doesn't mean that they will use this on random rural folk and the average homemaker. The government can't be stupid enough to ask for a rebellion like that.
I'm not saying I support the Patriot Act, just, I don't get why they would perform evil deeds purly for the sake of being evil.

[edit on 1-12-2004 by Newo]