The American Attitude.....

Damned- do you like me? I'm a Texan, I hope I'm not too ignorant...for a Texan.

And Grady- in response to your "comment," no thanks, I'd rather not run away from a problem or should I say, get the 'problem' to run away from me (as you wish that unloyal Americans would leave, eh?). Now to your "question," how did America become a superpower? By having the money, by having the will, and by having the determination. I said we are ignorant, I didn't say we were weak about it.:

Re: The comparison of Nazi Germany with the US.

Originally posted by devilwasp
you are not an unbaised party so your opinion cannot be taken with out it being biased.

What evidence can you present that would indicate even slightly that the US is comparable to Nazi Germany?

My biases are irrelevant.

Where are the facts, Devil?

[edit on 04/11/7 by GradyPhilpott]

Originally posted by Scat
your "question," how did America become a superpower? By having the money, by having the will, and by having the determination.

Whence came all these things?

In a land occupied for millenia with no visible effect, the inhabitants of the thirteen original colonies laid the foundation for what was to become the greatest nation in the world.

Our language, because of our dominance in business, has become the language of international currency. We protect the myriad peoples of the world. We feed them. we clothe them. We heal them.

Yes, there are the ignorant among us, even in Texas, but Americans built our nation from scratch and we have maintained that nation for over 228 years.

You take too many things for granted.

What have you accomplished that has contributed to the greatness of our nation?

[edit on 04/11/7 by GradyPhilpott]

It's sadly amusing to read over & over again the responses of however-you-want-to-label-pro-Bush-folk when anyone tries to explain why half of america is distressed about this "election", or why other countries might think poorly of their choice of leader and his policies.

It generally ends up with "well move then", "we'll kick your ass (or nuke, invade, etc. you)", "you're just jealous of america's freedom", "get over it you whiney liberal losers". You get the gist.

Why not just come to terms with the fact that half the country doesn't want to leave, get over it, join the christian jihad, but just wants to exercise the rights supposedly guaranteed by the country's founding documents. Under the umbrella of freedom from religion. Once you let religion direct law-making process, all reason, fairness and logic go out the window. By it's very nature religion is emotional and faith-based, and precludes allowing "non-believers" to have rights and equality. You can leave religion out of it and still vote for fair and sensible laws. If you can't sort out what that is without a book of "talking points" specifically written to exclude, punish, marginalize and so on, anyone not voting along the same lines, well...anyone would and should find that rather upsetting.

America has shown all over the headlines how willing it is to cause extreme mayhem in pursuit of what it's leaders deem neccessary. And that leader happens to be quite proud of being the tool of his god. Sounds like a freakin madman. Sounds like Hitler. No wonder Europe is worried. ANother one of those to deal with before more countries are put on the naughty list. And 55+ million of us americans held hostage to the manipulations of him & his empire making machine. One nice thing about christians from a leaders standpoint, is how easy it is to push their buttons. Abortion! Gay marriage! OMG! Forget reason & logic, god wants homos & baby killers in hell, so get behind the person who promises to do it. Easy peasy.

So, that's why liberals are whining and looking into leaving the country. We believed that we could take part in decing our future, but we cannot. And the path this country is on is obscene. How disheartening to realize all the crap about land of the free is just so much crap.

The american attitude as crafted by Bush & crew is - other is bad, different is bad, debate is treason, kill the non-believer, ridicule unpleasant facts and dissenting opinions until they go away. Breed, work and die you agreeable little serfs.

I don�t think that American attitude is so bad. America is wonderful country. Yes certain people in the world don�t like America much but i think that�s more to do with bush then anything else. America has the right attitude it just needs to fine tune it. Since coming to ats i have learned a lot about Americans and one thing i gathered is that not all of them share the same gun ho attitude that is rife in your country. The "im gonna kill you" attitude which seems engrained in your culture which may have come from the bad ol days of the wild wild west.

Btw the dammed description of a redneck was accurate, but then im English what do i know. Thanks Jedi master for putting me straight. Also am i getting rednecks confused with red legs [if there is such a thing]? I thought it was something to do with the civil war and what the confederates wore.

Also about that plastic fork thing. Personally i would have to agree with the Englishman. By boycotting the plastic forks you lessen their demand. We all need to do our bit in the fight against pollution. It makes sense. He was probably irritated by you and just had to voice his opinion, drawing parallels between the USA and its refusal to join in with Kyoto agreement.

Originally posted by Simulacra

People are being beheaded, women raped, soldiers being killed, and you want to save the enviornment by banning plastic forks?'

Then he said to me 'That's a very American Attitude'

Can someone please explain to me where this guy even gets off telling me that?

I'd have taken the fork, stabbed him in the eye, and said HAH!!! Thats American inginuity beeeeeeeaaaaaaatttcccc************

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Re: The comparison of Nazi Germany with the US.



What evidence can you present that would indicate even slightly that the US is comparable to Nazi Germany?

My biases are irrelevant.

Where are the facts, Devil?

[edit on 04/11/7 by GradyPhilpott]

my facts? no i have no facts, only views, i am not here to prove that i am only pointing out how you cannot just disallow sources.
one thing that is similar is that you both seem to be right wing parties and seem to have the same idea on military spening.
your nationalist pride is equal to thiers but i am not saying this is bad.
also your biases are not irellevant.

Originally posted by LostSailor

Originally posted by Simulacra

People are being beheaded, women raped, soldiers being killed, and you want to save the enviornment by banning plastic forks?'

Then he said to me 'That's a very American Attitude'

Can someone please explain to me where this guy even gets off telling me that?

I'd have taken the fork, stabbed him in the eye, and said HAH!!! Thats American inginuity beeeeeeeaaaaaaatttcccc************

That�s not American ingenuity that�s just barbaric. How about a British perspective on that one.

"I would ave shoved it up his arse nutted him to the ground grabbed him by the throat and told him America has nothing to do with it ya TWAT"

Originally posted by LostSailor

Originally posted by Simulacra

People are being beheaded, women raped, soldiers being killed, and you want to save the enviornment by banning plastic forks?'

Then he said to me 'That's a very American Attitude'

Can someone please explain to me where this guy even gets off telling me that?

I'd have taken the fork, stabbed him in the eye, and said HAH!!! Thats American inginuity beeeeeeeaaaaaaatttcccc************

That's why people hate americans. Even americans hate americans because of people who think like that. That sense of entitlement and ownership, even to the point of ruining the very planet that sustains us all. I'm sure the last american left alive after nuclear winter, global warming, self-inflicted plague or some other american induced apocalypse will be standing on a pile of dead shouting "Thats American inginuity beeeeeeeaaaaaaatttcccc************" with his dying breath. And still not getting it.

Bush's Amerika is a cancer on the planet. I hope someone finds the cure fast, even if that means getting rid of us all.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Our language, because of our dominance in business, has become the language of international currency.

Just a friendly reminder. Your language is called english for a reason... British empire was an economical superpower long before you, and played a major part building the base to use 'your' language globally.

Originally posted by Saerlaith
(Convoluted bigotry snipped)

Bush's Amerika is a cancer on the planet. I hope someone finds the cure fast, even if that means getting rid of us all.

I will bear your opinions in mind.

Calling for the destruction of my country isn't going to lead to any common ground between us, however. But at least I have another insight into how one of America's self-described enemies thinks.

Perhaps you can better understand how Americans see things when you consider that your statement calls for:

1) Destroying America, and

2) Destroying the world if that's what it takes, and

3) Allows for no alternative course of action.

Do you even read what you post? What kind of logic leads to a statement like this?

Your declared position allows for no provision for negotiation or reasoning with you, so I won't bother trying. Just remember that you are the one who has decided to be our enemy.

The irony in this is that your apocalyptic fantasy is probably going to be played out sooner than either of us may expect.

Originally posted by Majic
1) Destroying America, and

2) Destroying the world if that's what it takes, and

3) Allows for no alternative course of action.

Do you even read what you post? What kind of logic leads to a statement like this?

Your declared position allows for no provision for negotiation or reasoning with you, so I won't bother trying. Just remember that you are the one who has decided to be our enemy.

The irony in this is that your apocalyptic fantasy is probably going to be played out sooner than either of us may expect.

And that is why this is all so stupid. Since it's pretty obvious that this country is well on its way to being a theocracy, there is no place for reasoning or negotiating with Bush & co. I'm hoping that like inevitably happens with any species that overpopulates or degrades its habitat, nature or human nature will take its course and take care of the "american problem". As much as I would hate to see grief come to myself, my loved ones, and the millions of folks that share a balanced outlook on life, I truly believe that we are being forced into Bush & Co's "fantasy" of an apocalypse. Read this:

www.ipsnews.net...

I would much rather have amerika's leaders have an epiphany and realize that this country is one of many that share the planet we are rapidly destroying. That religions are between an individual and their god/dess. That when a tiny percentage have most of the resources it creates an imbalance that will eventually right itself, not always nicely.

But it just ain't gonna happen. Instead of being strapped to the nukes of a government 49% of us didn't vote for, I'd rather the flu or the UN or aliens do their thing. At least we'd all go equally, not just whoever was on Bush's naughty list that week. I'm not amerika's enemy. I'm a disenfranchised voter. Amerika is its own worst enemy, and it seems everyone but the 59 million who voted for Bush can see that.

Edit-

"The irony in this is that your apocalyptic fantasy is probably going to be played out sooner than either of us may expect. "

On rereading your interpretation of my post, I think the irony is that you missed the part about any apocalypse being caused by amerika itself. This country is doing just fine in setting things in motion that will bring about its demise. Either self-destruction, or other countries getting freaked out enough by Bush's invasions to do something. Silly person! Do you not see how the world is reacting to us? Do you not see how we are poisoning our food, air & water? Something has to give, and it doesn't require little old me to call destruction onto amerika.

[edit on 7-11-2004 by Saerlaith]

Originally posted by Saerlaith
I'm not amerika's enemy. I'm a disenfranchised voter. Amerika is its own worst enemy, and it seems everyone but the 59 million who voted for Bush can see that.

Calling for the destruction of America makes you an enemy of America. Why do I even need to say this?

You are calling for the deaths of my family, friends and associates. What can I say to that, other than that I will oppose you and those who would take action on your desires?

It is unfortunate that you disagree with the way our system of government works, and that your apparent remedy when others don't agree with you is to call for our demise and the overthrow of our government.

I have seen enough. I came to this thread knowing there would be America-bashing in it -- the title made that clear enough. I wanted to see if I could understand where such sentiments come from.

Now I have a better idea, but I do not have the heart to discuss calls by a self-described fellow American for the destruction of my country. No thanks, I'm not that cut off from reality, and will not join in such madness.

I recommend not applying for a security clearance or a position of public trust anytime soon considering the views you have publicly expressed here. I also recommend against contemplating action in line with your call for the destruction of America.

May you choose a more constructive path than the one you have outlined here.

[edit on 11/7/2004 by Majic]

Did you read my post? I'm not the one calling for anyone's demise. People who back people like Bush are. The whole point is that nothing I do or wish affects any of it one way or another. HELLO?? The thread is about american attitude, and it is attitudes like yours that are the problem. Anyone with a differing opinion is some kind of traitor, and your response bears that observation out. Seriously, do you really think this country is on course for long-term survival? Do you think the rest of the world will keep doing nothing while more and more countries are invaded by this one? Do you really think screwing around with biotoxins while denying millions of people healthcare is NOT going to result in some wacked plague pandemic? Do you think Bush & co. allowing natural resources to be ravaged by the powers that be is a good thing for the health and welfare of citizens of this country and planet.

WAKE UP!!! Stop putting your own wacked people's actions on me. I'm typing some words on a computer, expressing an opinion I barely still have the right to. People sharing your belief systems, and maybe you too for that matter, are out there, right now, committing atrocities against humans and nature and turning the concept of a free country into trash.

If you care about your kin and country, why do you support the very regime that is planning them the most harm?

And why in the world would I want to apply for anything to do with a government that would see my right to expression as a danger to it. Dude, where's my country, cause this one ain't it!

Originally posted by Scat
Damned- do you like me? I'm a Texan, I hope I'm not too ignorant...for a Texan.

I don't know you. You might not be a redneck. Don't get me wrong. I have met rednecks I can tolerate, but not very many. I don't hate anyone I don't know, unless they voted for Bush. My first experience with real rednecks was when I was about 16. I was swimming in a pool at some apartments we'd just moved into, and I had black neighbors. This black kid was swimming in the pool, and two rednecks started saying some ugly # and talking about hanging him. I couldn't believe my ears. I'd never seen people so outwardly rude and hateful. "Nigger" is a word you'll hear often in the south. It's rather sickening, IMO. If you're one of those kinds of rednecks, then no, I don't like you.

May you choose a more constructive path than the one you have outlined here

ok and what happens when that constructive path we follow is only attainable through cooperation and agreement with the forces we wish to reject. when the only means of proggresion is working through a system that has every facet of power completely under control? ya know im sure its not all bad, but when the accumulative fruits of our labor amount to a staggeringly regresive counter productive world policy, it just leaves some of us in a state of confusion

Originally posted by sturod84
ok and what happens when that constructive path we follow is only attainable through cooperation and agreement with the forces we wish to reject.

As long as your approach to those you disagree with is rejection, there can be no cooperation.

There are many on this board who have pointed the finger at their opponents, derided and slandered them, and accused them of being divisive.

Then they complain that their opponents aren't cooperating with them. Hypocrisy such as this has limited appeal for those who embrace reason.

The first step on a constructive path is to abandon the path of destruction.

Doing that requires abandoning prejudice, hatred and deceit, which is not an easy choice for some people. But we all have our parts to play.

I now feel that I understand the nature of my enemies better, and am grateful for that.

Originally posted by Justmytype
This is not so much a rant than what I have read and seen since the election. I believe all politics aside, Americans in a whole will always unite in a time of need. We all have an outstanding amount of giving that most of the world does not see as well as our right to defend. We are a mixture of races, religions, sexual genders that all have one unique trait. We will always stand up, work together and fight for this country we love.
9/11 proved something, the rest of the world was not prepared for. We all united to help and support one another when times were bad. Most were hoping that this would divide us Religiously, ethnically but it did not. The world saw a country of 1 "that is of one people" which made them hate us even more. Now the world see's us as a nation standing alone, attempting to solve the worlds issues without any support. Is this true or do they not understand thier people have spoken and have taken action while finding refuge within the United States, they have come here to be free and become citizens, with this in mind, remeber we are not alone, the world has spoken by the many of thousands who find safety and serenity within our country. We will never be alone as long as we keep faith in the "American attitude.......

I'll try to stay on your topic. I do I agree that we are a unique nation. We did unite after 9/11. Maybe my memory isn't too good from that time, as I had many things on my mind after 9/11, but I don't recall any marches against us going into Afganistan to go after Bin Laden. I also don't recall the rest of the world marching against it either, of course there were some countries like Egypt who questioned our overall tactics, but I didn't hear about that until after we went into Iraq (after Iraq they used stronger language). In fact there was a lot of sympathy pooring in from the rest of the world. We (as Americans) did unite, we gave blood and money, sought and gave comfort to one another, made touching docos and art work, etc.

I also agree that there is a side of us that the many non-americans don't know/understand or choose to forget/ignore. We can be tolerant and generous. Many times we have the power and the means to be generous.
One example of a misconception about America is that we are a cultural wasteland (that's what I've heard from some). Much of the music the rest of the world makes/listens was first created in America, including rock and electronic music (especially many that are in my age bracket). But I never anyone praise us for that.

I know there are great things about America, I'm not blind to that but nor am I blind to the failings of my country as well.

I'm not sure what you meant by the rest of the world not being prepared for us uniting??? Is there a specific part? Are you also including Canada? But to say that the rest of the world hated us because they saw us as one, well I'm not sure where you got that from either? I can think of many reasons (some valid others distorted and wrong) why many hate us. I have travelled more of the world than Bush has, but no one has ever singled me out to put me down as an American. Some have said they disagreed and were disgusted by some of our tactics. Many of 'them' don't hate, but some Americans have labelled the 'mere' disagreement as anti-American sentiments. I question our tactics from time to time myself (not just from Bush's administration).

But I see nothing wrong with questioning or speaking out about trying to change our policies. There have always been those that are for the change and those that are against the change, when it seemed like we were a country divided, but we have pulled through. I believe its this questioning that has made America grow over the last 200+.


As for this comment..."Now the world see's us as a nation standing alone, attempting to solve the worlds issues without any support." The world's issues? You mean like global warming? That certainly is a 'world issue' or for those who don't believe it is, at least its something the world is concerned about. Didn't Bush chide (for better lack of a word) Kerry for saying we are without any support, but then he was referring to the war in Iraq, not the 'world's issues.' But I'm open, maybe I misinterperted your statement?

Originally posted by Simulacra
Just a short story for you guys.

I was eating in a diner with my friend from Spain. He invited one his friends from England to eat with us. We get our meals, find a table and begin to eat. I picked up my plastic fork and was about to shove a forkfull of peas into my mouth when the guy said 'Why are you using a plastic fork? You should use a metal one.' Of course i'm thinking to myself, who is this guy so I responded back with 'Why?'. Then he goes on to tell me how plastic forks hurt the environment and that if I want to help the enviornment, I should use a metal fork because they are re-usable and cause less waste. I look at him, look at my fork, look at him again and said 'It's a fork, there are hundreds of plasticforks in the silverware area. I chose a plastic fork, because that's what I'm used to. One fork is not going to hurt the enviornment. It can be recycled anyways.' The he tells me that if there is no demand for plastic forks, then they won't be made. Wtf. The last thing I said to the guy was 'Look, the fork is already made, it's there in a huge box for people to pick from. There is no demand. It's an option. A plastic fork isnt going to save the enviornment. People are being beheaded, women raped, soldiers being killed, and you want to save the enviornment by banning plastic forks?'

Then he said to me 'That's a very American Attitude'

Can someone please explain to me where this guy even gets off telling me that?

Thats the greatest story i have ever read, anyway i would have used the plastic fork if it was closer to reach. Plus i like plastic forks better, there is no metallic taste and cold in your mouth. I agree how is one fork that is already made going to risk the environment. lol

magij you have tottaly lost me with your post, i dont know what the heck you are talking about!

i think mabye you missed my main point in that a corupt governments absolute authority over a population has no disagrement, only rejection. shape up or ship out. shape up to the cooruption, become one with the evil entity, merge into a more formidable fighting force of tyrany and opresion over the people governing every aspect of thought and descision or go to ground zero and lodge one right between the eyes.

tough choice wouldnt ya say?



[edit on 8-11-2004 by sturod84]