Boston Conspiracy Theorists - Please Answer

reply to post by Echtelion


So people believe the FBI photoshopped this image to nab some innocent passerby(who just happened to have Chechen background ironically) but they don't believe that Obama geek buds doctored his birth certificate.

It's funny what kind of things people accept and don't accept based on their worldview.

reply to post by Rocker2013

I also agree that governments have been guilty of misleading the public in the past, and going to war to kill thousands based on lies. But there is NO irrefutable evidence that the US government (or any part of it) has ever attacked its own citizens, despite millions of hours by hundreds of thousands of people desperately trying to prove it.

Yes, there is irrefutable evidence of the US Gov't. attacking (performing damaging tests/studies) on it's own citizens. Some that included long term damage and even some including fatalities. There are plenty of threads here on ATS (including links) that show proof of these allegations.

reply to post by WanDash


What you described is more like the official story rather than any conspiracy theories developed aside from that. The OP is discussing alternate theories to the official story. Yes even the official story has a conspiracy element to it being that more than one person conspired to do this deed and they did it in secret. That is the definition Antony Sutton uses when he discusses the conspiratorial Skull and Bones Secret Society.

I subscribe mostly to the official story here, but Glenn Beck seems to think that there is a Saudi component somewhat hidden and this involves the possible deportation of a Saudi national by authorities and while we are talking about motive, why deport Saudis secretly and then not do it the minute it gets exposed?

What I don't subscribe to is a theory that some private professional security team used homemade pressure cooker bombs to blow up random people at a marathon.

Thoughts?

reply to post by AndorMachini


Very interesting. Of course we will be told he had two bags of the same design.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
...What you described is more like the official story rather than any conspiracy theories developed aside from that. The OP is discussing alternate theories to the official story. Yes even the official story has a conspiracy element to it being that more than one person conspired to do this deed and they did it in secret. That is the definition Antony Sutton uses when he discusses the conspiratorial Skull and Bones Secret Society.

I subscribe mostly to the official story here, but Glenn Beck seems to think that there is a Saudi component somewhat hidden and this involves the possible deportation of a Saudi national by authorities and while we are talking about motive, why deport Saudis secretly and then not do it the minute it gets exposed?

I have no secondary/base conspiracy theory to put forth... Which was, in part, why I responded to the OP. The Thread title is "Boston Conspiracy Theorists - Please Answer".
I read through the OP and found numerous unanswered questions (of my own) were not among the list put forth.
I found some fairly well-reasoned conjecture...mixed-in with some conclusions I'm not willing to jump to - yet.
As it stands, if there is ANYONE on this site with actual "evidence", there would only be one (or...a few). Everything-else has been fed to us...either by the MSM, the alternate news media, hearsay, etc...
If you can "fall" for faulty information put forth by one group...you can fall for faulty information put forth by another.
When you say that you subscribe mostly to the official story...I have to ask "What is it?"
For me...there will be no official story until/unless all pertinent facts are available. Until then, we simply MUST take what we're handed.
I don't know what to make of Beck's story (regarding the Saudi national).
We may get answers...we may not... And, we may get answers that were little better than...not (getting answers).
RandyVS has put himself out on a limb with the "crisis actors" info. Has taken nothing but flack for it. And...until I looked at one of the videos he posted on another thread - I wanted to throw him out the window, as well. But, when I saw "who" was in that video... Well, let's just say, there may be more to this than "a spook under every rock".

reply to post by AndorMachini


Where is the original pic and how do you know it was taken Saturday, April 20th? I would think photos inside his residence would not be available to the general public due to the ongoing investigation.

reply to post by Rocker2013

1. If the brothers were innocent, why didn't they do what others identified in images by guys on 4chan and hand themselves in the moment their images were seen on TV? An innocent person would have seen that and immediately attended the local police station ready to clear their name. So, please explain that to me. If you believe the brothers were duped into it in some way, this still applies, why didn't they surrender and why did they seemingly then go on the run armed with guns and bombs?

They're intelligence assets.

2. The images of the two Craft International guys (if that's indeed who they are) have been taken out of context and a fictional time line added. People are claiming that one of them is seen after the blasts without his bag. In fact, the image of the two in the street was taken immediately after the explosions, and both are seen WITH their bags. Why do you accept the false narrative when the evidence is there for all to see that BOTH these men had BOTH their bags immediately after the explosion, are you not embarrassed that you didn't check this before believing that story?

Eye witnesses reported drills which authorities denied. The finding of Craft/Seal personnel at the very spot where one of the bombs went off made a lot of people understandably uncomfortable. Questions were asked.

3. For those who believe the common "actors" story... how do you explain medical professionals, volunteers, BPD and race officials not noticing that there were no real injuries? Do you believe that all those present were actors? Thousands of them? If not, how many actors were there? Did they replace all the police who work there every year? How do you explain all the hospital staff who would have dealt with the injuries? Do you also claim that all those nurses, doctors and surgeons were all "replaced" by actors after the event? And if so, where are the doctors and nurses who would have been on duty and why haven't they asked why they all had a couple of days off at the same time, while strangers are appearing on the TV giving news briefings in their uniform?

Of course this scene is likely genuine. However, given the mounting circumstances (of the incident itself and the historical context of FBI involvement in terrorist attacks), to not consider the possibility of it being faked could be considered negligent. People did report the unlikely colour of the blood - some of them first responders of considerable experience themselves - and that at least one of the "amputee" victims was conscious and apparently not displaying what is known medically as "arterial rain" (massive loss of blood) after at least one major artery had been severed. Of course the tourniquet likely explains this but I don't personally see anything wrong with questioning anything and everything our media spins us these days.

4. If it were a false flag and the two were "convinced" into doing it, why is the younger brother still alive? Would it not make a lot more sense - given that they have already killed three and maimed more than 150 - that one more life wouldn't be much to end? So, if these "mysterious people" can convince those brothers to take two explosive devices into the crowd, kill three, wound more than a hundred, why would they let them live? Do you not think they could have killed them in the days after, when both brothers were behaving as they normally would have? Why would such a loose end be left dangling?

He is/was still alive but reported as "unlikely to ever speak again" which seems peculiarly convenient.

5. Why did those brothers then have a shoot out with police in the street, and how did those "innocent" brothers get hold of explosives if they were innocent? I will concede that we have no factual evidence ourselves of any of that happening, but this is the narrative we have, and there would have been numerous local BPD involved in that - did they all just "imagine" the bullets and bombs?

I don't recall any bomb explosions during the shoot-out but the gunfire seemed primarily to be coming from the police. In such a high tension situation it doesn't surprise me that people either thought or assumed the target was either armed or armed and firing. This happens all the time only to discover later the police were mistaken. It's quite understandable, though.

I'm personally 50/50 on this still. I think the real question is whether anyone thinks a "false flag" like this is a) possible b) been done in the past c) is profitable enough for someone to try and pull off. These are important questions that can actually be answered (because we've got access to the data) and can thereafter give us reason (or none) to pursue inconsistencies in similar official narratives in the future.

Conspiracies do happen, sadly. History is a litany of of people meeting in secret, conspiring to change the world to their benefit.

Originally posted by AndorMachini
Thoughts?
...

That is interesting.
Where did the picture come from?
As stated - maybe he owned two of the same kind. I guess that's not too far beyond the realm of normalcy...(?)
The pic' of him walking away from the blast...shows his left (apparently) arm...
In at least one photo, he appears to be carrying the backpack slung over his right shoulder.
As I look at the "exiting the scene of the crime" photo...I don't think it is possible to determine that he no longer has the backpack slung over the right shoulder. In fact...a case could be made, that...the right shoulder is "lower" than the left... I know - many reasons other than the backpack can justify the tilt. (In fact - one answer could be - He carried the backpack on there so long, he's still over-compensating with the other shoulder... but, it's still just conjecture.)
Guess if they miraculously come up with (produce) a receipt for the purchase (or theft?) of two identical backpacks, we'll know the answer.
Interesting find.

Originally posted by Echtelion

Originally posted by Rocker2013


4. If it were a false flag and the two were "convinced" into doing it, why is the younger brother still alive? Would it not make a lot more sense - given that they have already killed three and maimed more than 150 - that one more life wouldn't be much to end? So, if these "mysterious people" can convince those brothers to take two explosive devices into the crowd, kill three, wound more than a hundred, why would they let them live? Do you not think they could have killed them in the days after, when both brothers were behaving as they normally would have? Why would such a loose end be left dangling?

5. Why did those brothers then have a shoot out with police in the street, and how did those "innocent" brothers get hold of explosives if they were innocent? I will concede that we have no factual evidence ourselves of any of that happening, but this is the narrative we have, and there would have been numerous local BPD involved in that - did they all just "imagine" the bullets and bombs?

(continuing...)

4- There is no proof, as of now, they had anything to do with the bombing, or that they were there when it happened. Why you still push the idea that they did it, even being set up into doing it? Because initially this idea was pushed onto you, perhaps?

A scapegoat doesn't necessarily have to be involved at all... he could just have been picked falsely, either out of incompetence or planned intent.

5- The circumstance of this shoot out is a matter of controversy, and the police version seems to be far too bogus to be true (guy runs over his brother with his car just because he's in a rush to escape cops? huh....). THing is that the facts behind both local PD and FBI reports are not demonstrated. They're just issuing those declarations, holding back the facts.

What do they have to hide if they aren't lying, then? Why the secrecy?

No proof? Really. Let me ask you this, do you think the FBI has released all the PROOF they have on the case. Ill answer it for you, they haven't.

The FBI has video showing the suspect placing his backpack where the bomb went off. They also have video of suspect #2 after the first bomb went off. Do you know how he reacted? The video allegedly claims that while everyone else looked toward the area where the first bomb went off, suspect #2 turned away and calmly walked in the direction away from the blast. While he was doing this he was looking at his cell phone.

Now tell me, if a bomb goes off a block away, who would react this way? Ill will tell you, someone who knew exactly what was going on. So the FBI have video of him dropping his back pack and walking away calmly and then the second bomb goes off right where he placed his backpack.

Also, suspect number two has also confessed, it was in the paper this morning. Now I am sure you are going to say, well the paper is lying or the FBI is lying, which is a regular way that people defend their conspiracies here.

Now you ask why the FBI are holding back the facts. Contrary to popular belief here, the FBI doesn't care what some conspiracy people think or want. Do you think they actually care what anyone here thinks. There percentage of people who actually believe that this is a conspiracy is probably around 1%. Don't you think the FBI has more important things to do then to release all the evidence they have to the public. It is an ongoing investigation, the public is not privy to this information. The FBI will only release evidence on a need to know basis and if it will help their investigation in any way.

You people have to understand, the FBI has many resources at their disposal. They would never have released the photos of the two suspects unless they were almost positive they were behind it. If anyone remembers the Atlanta Olympic Bombings, you would understand why this is the case.

Originally posted by limousinemouse
reply to post by Rocker2013

 

They're intelligence assets.

Please provide proof.

Eye witnesses reported drills which authorities denied. The finding of Craft/Seal personnel at the very spot where one of the bombs went off made a lot of people understandably uncomfortable. Questions were asked.

There have been mass casualty drills since at least 2008 at the Boston Marathon.

Marathon A Dry Run For Disaster

This article also talks in detail on why these drills are run and specifically, why Boston runs it.

LINK

Over the past two years, area hospitals had sent teams of doctors and nurses to citywide training exercises and run internal drills for mass casualty incidents like bombs, plane crashes, and fires. Vivid, citywide disaster simulations – conducted in 2011 and 2012 – put hundreds of officials through hypothetical 24-hour crisis situations. Boston is one of four U.S. cities whose all-hazards plan has been accredited by EMAP, the national emergency planning evaluation program.

This article could also explain why Craft Employees were seen there, for training purposes.

Of course this scene is likely genuine. However, given the mounting circumstances (of the incident itself and the historical context of FBI involvement in terrorist attacks), to not consider the possibility of it being faked could be considered negligent. People did report the unlikely colour of the blood - some of them first responders of considerable experience themselves - and that at least one of the "amputee" victims was conscious and apparently not displaying what is known medically as "arterial rain" (massive loss of blood) after at least one major artery had been severed. Of course the tourniquet likely explains this but I don't personally see anything wrong with questioning anything and everything our media spins us these days.

Not really sure what proof you have on the FBI's involvement in terror attacks. If you are talking about the NY Times article that talks about they selling dummy arms to suspects, some people claim this is setting them up, in order to prosecute them or infiltrate their terrorist cell, then you assumption isn't valid.

As for "arterial rain", for all we know the wound could have cauterized itself. As for the color of blood, I call BS on that one. First off, if the injuries were not real, the first responders would have commented on the fake injuries, not the unlikely color of the blood. I would love to see the link of them claiming this.

He is/was still alive but reported as "unlikely to ever speak again" which seems peculiarly convenient.

I don't recall any bomb explosions during the shoot-out but the gunfire seemed primarily to be coming from the police. In such a high tension situation it doesn't surprise me that people either thought or assumed the target was either armed or armed and firing. This happens all the time only to discover later the police were mistaken. It's quite understandable, though.

In todays world, not being able to speak hardly handicaps a person from communicating with someone. As far as I know he still has his hands, correct?

Originally posted by WanDash

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus


RandyVS has put himself out on a limb with the "crisis actors" info. Has taken nothing but flack for it. And...until I looked at one of the videos he posted on another thread - I wanted to throw him out the window, as well. But, when I saw "who" was in that video... Well, let's just say, there may be more to this than "a spook under every rock".

There very well could have been crisis actors there, although I have not seen the video you are speaking of. I have linked numerous articles that talk about the drills they hold on the day of the marathon. One article is from 2008.

Who knows, the brothers being from Boston, might have thought these drills would help they get away with it.

Originally posted by AndorMachini
Thoughts?

That is really interesting... That's definitely the same style bag? Does anyone think it is not?

Originally posted by tide88
...The FBI has video showing the suspect placing his backpack where the bomb went off. They also have video of suspect #2 after the first bomb went off. Do you know how he reacted? The video allegedly claims that while everyone else looked toward the area where the first bomb went off, suspect #2 turned away and calmly walked in the direction away from the blast. While he was doing this he was looking at his cell phone.
...Now tell me, if a bomb goes off a block away, who would react this way? Ill will tell you, someone who knew exactly what was going on. So the FBI have video of him dropping his back pack and walking away calmly and then the second bomb goes off right where he placed his backpack. ...

The information you are relating about "what evidence the FBI has"...came from...where?
Do you get inside scoops...or is this from someone-else with an inside scoop...or has the FBI actually/officially broadcast (released) this information?
I see two possible glitches in the quoted portions of your statement. I would like to know if the "glitch" comes from information (evidence?) you are privy to...or if it can be attributed to "rounding"...or...there is also the possibility that it is no glitch, and something-else happened in-between, that hasn't been accounted for, yet.

First - you say the FBI has video showing the suspect placing his backpack where the bomb went off.
The suspect you are speaking of, here... Is that the younger brother (at the second blast site)?

You then described the younger brother's reaction/response to the first bomb's explosion...

Next - you say the FBI have video of him dropping his backpack, walking away...and the second bomb goes off right where he placed the backpack...

Do you happen to know if this is "video" footage?
Or is it still shots?
Is it the same photo/s we've been privy to for the last number of days?

If it is said "same photo/s"...the information I read, said that this photo was taken around 20 minutes (+/-) before the first explosion (so - virtually no different from the second explosion). And, after comparing the "finish" time for one of the contestants in the photo with the time of the first explosion...20 minutes seems fairly accurate.

Did he pick the backpack up after the photo...then set it down again? It is clearly on the ground (apparently leaning against the base of the tree)...

So - does the FBI "have video of him dropping his backpack and walking away"? Or, again...were you just "rounding to the nearest whole number"?

No offense intended. Would really like to know, though...since so much talk of "evidence" and "official story" is one of the more consistent accusations.

Thanks for your response.

Originally posted by Echtelion

that backpack on the ledge has and always was the bomb. All the other pictures leaked with this image were the distraction. wake up people geez

Originally posted by AndorMachini
Thoughts?

It is actually a jacket, not a backpack. Those sleeves have zippers and if you look closely on the left hand side, you can see the black collar. The picture was taken after the bombing happened, here is the LINK

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by Echtelion

 

So people believe the FBI photoshopped this image to nab some innocent passerby(who just happened to have Chechen background ironically) but they don't believe that Obama geek buds doctored his birth certificate.

It's funny what kind of things people accept and don't accept based on their worldview.

What tells you they are different, or the same people?

reply to post by Rocker2013


I went through your arguments, and not none is substantiated, but it's full of "authority argument"-type detours of logic and highly-biased claims. You are furthermore fully defending the police perspective while trashing anyone who's just questioning their claims, no matter what, and I see no further reason to argue with such slave mentality, or paid DHS shills.

I answered your former questions, and wasted enough time and energy doing so. That's it, that's all.

Originally posted by limousinemouse

...to not consider the possibility of it being faked could be considered negligent. People did report the unlikely colour of the blood - some of them first responders of considerable experience themselves - and that at least one of the "amputee" victims was conscious and apparently not displaying what is known medically as "arterial rain" (massive loss of blood) after at least one major artery had been severed. Of course the tourniquet likely explains this but I don't personally see anything wrong with questioning anything and everything our media spins us these days.

Tell that to my friends. I know two women that were at the marathon that day. One of whom has shrapnel strewn throughout her lower body. She had a breakthrough the other day, and was able to stand for the first time since Monday. The other will never stand again. She, unfortunately, lost both of her legs below the knees. Sorry if that ruins your speculation of fakery. These women, and many more that were injured both physically and emotionally don't give one iota what people here "think", they KNOW it was real....and will know it for the rest of their lives.

Sorry OP, for the off-topic post, I couldn't take another justification for this idea of it being fake.

Originally posted by tide88

Originally posted by AndorMachini
Thoughts?

It is actually a jacket, not a backpack. Those sleeves have zippers and if you look closely on the left hand side, you can see the black collar. The picture was taken after the bombing happened, here is the LINK

And...?

None of the FBI pictures showing Tamerlan leaving the crime scene can show that he still had his backpack on him or not, because it's showing him from a 10 hours angle of view, so the left strap cannot be seen on his left side -just as in the above picture you posted- because he was carrying the bag from the right side only.

Innocent until proven guilty!

EDIT: sorry, I answered to the wrong commenter!