Divers Find No Trace of Meteorite in Urals Lake

reply to post by SilentKoala


No. It depends what the medeorite was before entering the atmosphere. Could have been from a dozen or so different sources. Medeorite is basically an all encompassing term for anything not man made which enters the atmosphere and falls to earth.

Why do people keep believing this stuff that comes out of Russia? For years any "scientific" news that comes from there is garbage. There is thread after thread on ATS with people believing they have found fossilized screws (crinoids), ancient alien gears (minerals), the mysterious spiral (failed missile), tons of other stuff and now this.

Russia has been wanting for years to be seen as the leader in scientific breakthroughs and findings. They are barely just out of the cold war with their science. Believing them on this stuff is like believing that a B movie is real.


Raist

Originally posted by Irish Matador
The hole in the ice looked too round for my liking.

If it had been hit then the meteorite would come at an angle and the debris would be pushed to 1 side?

Just my 2 cents worth!!

I will just quote my post from the original thread.Meteorite crashes inRussia

Originally posted by Mianeye
reply to post by Creep Thumper

 

No it should not, the exsplosion shapes the hole not the angle or shape of object.

edit on 16-2-2013 by Mianeye because: (no reason given)

reply to post by ThinkingCap


You mean the door to hell? A video of a place thousands of miles from the Russian Meteor phenomena?

You were duped my friend, it's a natural gas well.

(Door to Hell, Darvaza.. Not a meteor impact)

Ahhh yes, Celestial body threads... These seem to be my thing here on ATS as of late.


Okay, I'm going to weigh in on a couple things here. We see this whole in the ice, It's about the size of a car wouldn't you say? Impressive right? Not really, depending on how large the meteor was by the time it got to the lake(for reference watch all the videos of this meteor burning up and exploding in the atmosphere.)

So a car sized hole in the ice does still look impressive, but we have to think of the fact the object that made this hole was traveling quite fast even after it's spectacular entry, burn off, and Airburst. At the very least it was traveling at terminal velocity, which is still an impressive speed. An object moving that quick, when it strikes the ice would leave a hole larger than the object itself.

This hole, looks impressive and at first glance many might think the object was as big as the hole left behind, when in reality this hole could have been made by an object the size of a softball, up to a basketball.

Which leads me to my next point, If this object was moving faster than terminal velocity, there is a very high probability it fragmented on impact with both the ice, and the water below.

I'm going to use my favourite video when discussing high speed objects entering our atmosphere. You see, gasses and fluids have many similar traits. An object traveling at extreme velocities will react much the same way when entering our atmosphere, as they would in water. This is why the object burned up and exploded in the air. Now the remaining piece still likely traveling at a very fast speed entering water would act pretty much exactly as the bullets in this video.



Now, taking this into consideration, the fragment that struck this frozen lake probably broke up yet again, with in the first few feet of water, expending all of it's energy with in the first few feet of water. Those pieces settling to the bottom at free fall speeds in water. Even if there is lots of sediment on the lake bed, they likely wouldn't have buried themselves too deep. The problem would lie in finding the fragments(which could be quite small), over an area potentially much larger than the hole we see on top of the ice. I'm not surprised, pieces of the object have not been found AS OF YET.

Given more time, small pieces could be found, but if this lake bottom is murky and muddy conditions would severely hinder finding marble sized(or smaller) pieces of this meteorite.

reply to post by yamammasamonkey


I'll throw in my bit to your point as well. Asteroid- Large rocky body in space, Meteoroid-small rocky body in space, Meteor- a rocky body that enters Earth's atmosphere, Meteorite- A rocky body that strikes the Earth's surface, after entering Earth's atmosphere.

reply to post by Hijinx

An object moving that quick, when it strikes the ice would leave a hole larger than the object itself.

Not necessarily. It would have to be fast enough and large enough to penetrate the ice first. Here's a fragment found in Canada a couple of years ago.
www.universetoday.com...

So. The fragment would have to be large enough to penetrate and create a large hole. Yet small enough to not be found on the lake bed. A puzzlement.

Which leads me to my next point, If this object was moving faster than terminal velocity, there is a very high probability it fragmented on impact with both the ice, and the water below.

A possibility. But that would seem to indicate a very sizable object. Even if it fragmented on contact with the ice (which completely failed under the impact), it seems there should be some large fragments. A puzzlement.

Another chunk of the Canadian meteor. A nice dent in the ground but that's about it.

Originally posted by Phage
Or maybe the hole was cut with a chainsaw.

exactly...

The whole was probably 3 feet crooked and they just made it big and safe enough for a human or humans to go diving and have a place to safely re-surface without getting lost or stuck under ice.

Well it appears my attempt has been "Phaged."

Ha ha, I'll leave it to the master.

reply to post by Hijinx

I said I was puzzled. I don't have an answer.

reply to post by Mianeye


Thank you for the videos but it still does not explain nor reason why the hole is perfectly round.

In the first video the finer the substance the less noticable the the shape of the impact site.

In your second video with ice I think it is quite obivous of the damage the impact does as the ice is shattered in different size chunks in different directions.

So the point of your videos in response to my comment is what???

Thanks

reply to post by Irish Matador


Ready?

Here you go.

reply to post by Phage


Me neither, I just tried to make a guess with supporting arguments.

I have a question as far finding an object under the ice goes. Say there is an object in the sediment, why can't they use hand held GPR, or Sonar to find it. Seems to work for divers in the ocean finding statues and coins in the silt and sand.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Hijinx

 

An object moving that quick, when it strikes the ice would leave a hole larger than the object itself.

Not necessarily. It would have to be fast enough and large enough to penetrate the ice first. Here's a fragment found in Canada a couple of years ago.
www.universetoday.com...

So. The fragment would have to be large enough to penetrate and create a large hole. Yet small enough to not be found on the lake bed. A puzzlement.

Which leads me to my next point, If this object was moving faster than terminal velocity, there is a very high probability it fragmented on impact with both the ice, and the water below.

A possibility. But that would seem to indicate a very sizable object. Even if it fragmented on contact with the ice (which completely failed under the impact), it seems there should be some large fragments. A puzzlement.

Another chunk of the Canadian meteor. A nice dent in the ground but that's about it.

edit on 2/16/2013 by Phage because: (no reason given)

Well, I have to debate now. It's in my nature. Let's say the object was large and fast enough to penetrate the ice, this could lead to fragmentation no? An object moving through a medium such as ice, would likely be exposed to more stress moving through the denser ice. Increasing the likelihood it could fragment.

I did overlook the fact the object would have to be moving quite fast, or be much larger to make it through the ice, let alone leave a mark such as it did.

Is it not possible they are just incapable of finding the fragments at this time? Or do you have another suggestion? I read others and yourself even say someone cut the hole, likely to garner attention to themselves or the area.

reply to post by Hijinx

No way of knowing what they did.
But unless the lake bed is very soft muck I don't see why a fragment(s) would settle deeply into it. Refer to bullets penetrating water. It's pretty good at slowing things down.

I really can't even speculate about it with the amount of information available. We don't even know how deep the water is. I just seems odd to me.

reply to post by Hijinx


Ready?

What has that got to do with my comment.

Yes I know ice is frozen water and your point is?

Dropping a stone straight down will create an even circumference. Now throw the stone at an angle and show me your lovely circle rings. I am ready for that video



EDIT: I think they must of cut the hole because I refuse to believe that the meteroite made that perfect hole. Thanks for all the videos though

reply to post by Irish Matador

Why couldn't a fragment have been falling vertically?
A chunk of a Canadian meteor. A nice dent in the ground but that's about it.

It was the silver surfer..
he likes to make holes..but didnt realize it was a lake.. had to quit

reply to post by Phage


Good point. So perhaps what we see here is a hole cut at the suspected impact point. This is Russia in winter after all. If a small object did manage to breach the ice, it could have froze over, leading those looking for it to cut the ice away to make room for divers. I would imagine any object breaking the ice would leave an unstable hole, leaving them no choice but to cut a hole in the suspected search area. Which could have been completely wrong to begin with.

That or there was no impact, and someone is looking for attention.

Originally posted by Irish Matador
reply to post by Hijinx

 

Ready?

What has that got to do with my comment.

Yes I know ice is frozen water and your point is?

Dropping a stone straight down will create an even circumference. Now throw the stone at an angle and show me your lovely circle rings. I am ready for that video

EDIT: I think they must of cut the hole because I refuse to believe that the meteroite made that perfect hole. Thanks for all the videos though

edit on 16-2-2013 by Irish Matador because: (no reason given)

I found you one with some nice soothing music(lol)