Georgia man guns down immigrant after GPS sends him to wrong driveway

Originally posted by PresumedInnocent
reply to post by xedocodex

 

Have not waded through the whole thread, so if this idea has been brought up I'm sorry for repeating it.

This kind of incident puts forth the the idea that we need more gun ownership in America. Just think if the wrong GPS guy and friends had been armed then upon seeing the old guy approach their car , they then could have defended themselves by blowing away the old guy. After a neighbor seeing the above action would take some shots at the Cubans, with the Cubans firing back, maybe another dead neighbor and a few Cubans. If such a thing happened, under the 'no retreat' defense, who would be at fault if anyone? The GPS maker?

Guess is would depend on what actually occurred at the house which NOBODY KNOWS because the story has not been completely reported and it is only giving us what the kids in the car say. These kids claim they are picking up a friend, but have never been to and don't know what their friends house looks like????? And don't have a cell phone to call their friend? And expect a random person to know where their friend lives? I am sure this guy has had people knock on his door soliciting and whatever so something about this particular story is either not being told or has not been fully investigated to get the whole story.

Some of the comments make me laugh!!!

One poster was so hell-bent on blasting the poor old guy, the mis-identified the weapon as a rifle!

Another doesn't realize that even the wild west, wasn't the wild west! Why is it that someone can take a single incident and turn it into a paradigm which defines an entire Nation and an entire era?

And then you have those, who claim to be pro-gun that fall for the same propaganda that the grabbers do! And condemn the innocent until proven guilty, on the word of the Media, which they claim lies at every turn!

Really?

Originally posted by IkNOwSTuff
Your wasting your time OP.

If Ive learnt anything from this site its that gun owners dont care and everyone else already knows.

If your American join whatever you have in the way of the Anti NRA, if your not American just be thankful there arent a 100+ million armed extremists walking around your country.

Telling armed Yanks guns are bad is like telling a hardcore Muslim that the Koran is BS, best case scenario is a pointless argument with someone who has made up their mind regardless of common sense.

S&F anyway

Guns not bad? i never see others saying such nonsense, you're letting your viewpoint distort what you see. we know guns can be bad like any weapon and prepare for this very reason and think relying on others to save your own life or the life of someone who needs saving then and there is wrong.

You really condone being a coward and relying on authority to protect you or ignoring another persons plight while expecting others to save them? is that what you want us all to become? helpless cowards who run when another needs help, completely reliant on authority for survival like caged animals, forgetting what we are?

No thanks, i rather live my life by proper reasoning not sensationalism and unthinking emotions. keep believing the illusion society foists upon you and forget what a cruel thing life is, if it helps you feel at ease that is.

Though you might think you know but i doubt people like you understand until someone stabs you and even then most refuse and let fear rule their actions.

Wow, this is awful. Why would you shoot someone because they are in their car in your drive way? I've backed up in many of driveways who were not mine....

reply to post by xedocodex


no,

this is just an unfortunate case of old people being crazy at times.

I am living in Spain. There is a case in my area from not to long ago where an old guy shot a neighbor who would ride his horse into the old guys field as a short cut. The horse would trample his vegetables and ruin the old guys hard work.(its an old school rural area). After a couple decades of warning and bickering with the horse guy and his family, one day, the old guy just calmly walked out side when the horse guy was crossing his field right over his garden again and shot him with a shot gun. When the guys son came screaming and hollering, the old guy shot him too. Both dead.....over vegetables.

He is 80 something. The whole town saw it coming. The case was dismissed because the old guy was suffering from dementia and so was sent home.....

the horse guy, well, his family is pissed but they too saw it coming. The old guy did say he would do it plenty of times and did brandish the shot gun many times, to which the horse guy, being a wealthy guy from Madrid, would laugh and throw money at the old guy for his "crappy vegetables".....

Moral of the story, old people do some crazy crap....even over trampled vegetables......

Spain does not have a "gun culture"......they have civil war vets and survivors who go hunting....they are all very old. This sort of thing has happened before.

reply to post by Vasa Croe


The guy shot an unarmed man sitting in a car. There's not much of a defense situation the guy could have.

Unfortunately this is going to be used by some of you as propaganda for your campaign against guns, despite the fact that statistically speaking the vast majority of people who own guns never fire them at another person in their entire lives. You think the reason things like this happen are because of guns, and you are wrong, those of you who know who you are. Guns are not the problem. If you want to fix the problem, you need to get at the heart of the issue.

Using your logic, doctors should not cure the patient, but treat them instead. It may work for a very short time, but it will get much worse after that. And that is what will happen when guns are taken away. The criminals will still get them, or just find other weapons, and with everyone being unprotected even in their homes, the crime rate will increase. And instead of reading about intruders being murdered, you are going to be reading more often about a member of the family getting robbed being murdered, for they must confront the burglar if they wish to stop them, instead of being able to defend themselves from a distance.

This story is tragic, but as I said, the cause of this was an obviously insane person. Even the majority of the people you call gun nuts would not do something like this, but they would definitely shoot someone who was in their house at night if they found them and did not recognize them, and there is nothing wrong with that. Killing is wrong, morally speaking, but that is an issue of self-defense. All this is irrelevant anyway, as far as controlling weapons is concerned, because the point of the 2nd amendment is to ensure the citizenry have sufficient "force" to both defend themselves and preserve our republic's democracy.

Since Obama is concentrating on immigration right now too, how avoidable could this incident have been if just one of those kids in the car spoke English? As far as I can tell, none of them did.

Originally posted by WaterBottle
reply to post by Vasa Croe

 

The guy shot an unarmed man sitting in a car. There's not much of a defense situation the guy could have.

Ummm.....he wasn't sitting in his car...he was at the door of the guys house and even the other kids in the car said they could not see but saw him come back out being chased by the guy with the gun. Who knows what transpired....all I do know is that everyone is jumping to conclusions before any facts of how it happened have been presented.

And actually there is plenty of defense he could have...it was his property and had he felt threatened it would have been justified to protect it.

Like I said....don't know all the facts of what occurred at the door or what the kids were really doing there...the GPS bit doesn't make any sense to me if they were really going to pick up a friend. Do you have people you consider friends that you would invite out yet don't know where they live or have never been to their house?

One thing is for sure. There isn't much reporting about the kids ever having left their car.

Here's the only report I've seen of anyone being out of the car.

Puglise says his client grabbed his gun when he heard loud, unusual noises outside his home on Hillcrest Road. Then, the attorney says, Sailors saw two people running near his back door. "He went out and he confronted the individuals, who at this time were running for their car, got into the vehicle.

www.myfoxatlanta.com...

What doesn't make sense to me is why these kids, mostly teens, claiming they were going ice skating after 10:00 pm? The closest ice rink, in the town where Rodrigo Diaz was from closes up at 8:00 pm (unless they wanted to drive another 20 miles out of their way).

Originally posted by Deetermined
One thing is for sure. There isn't much reporting about the kids ever having left their car.

Here's the only report I've seen of anyone being out of the car.

Puglise says his client grabbed his gun when he heard loud, unusual noises outside his home on Hillcrest Road. Then, the attorney says, Sailors saw two people running near his back door. "He went out and he confronted the individuals, who at this time were running for their car, got into the vehicle.

www.myfoxatlanta.com...

What doesn't make sense to me is why these kids, mostly teens, claiming they were going ice skating after 10:00 pm? The closest ice rink, in the town where Rodrigo Diaz was from closes up at 8:00 pm (unless they wanted to drive another 20 miles out of their way).

And this is exactly why I feel like there is more to the story. Now I would feel sorry for the kids if they were trying to pull some kind of prank and it went wrong, but if they were indeed on his property and snooping around his back door that late at night....well.....I would not be greeting them with cookies and milk lets say.

He was an old war veteran, he could have all sorts of mental issues from being paid to kill people in the past. Oh but being in the military is all fun and games isnt it, call of duty 2.0.
And why is the article so insistent on pointing out hes an immigrant?

Originally posted by IkNOwSTuff
Your wasting your time OP.

If Ive learnt anything from this site its that gun owners dont care and everyone else already knows.

If your American join whatever you have in the way of the Anti NRA, if your not American just be thankful there arent a 100+ million armed extremists walking around your country.

Telling armed Yanks guns are bad is like telling a hardcore Muslim that the Koran is BS, best case scenario is a pointless argument with someone who has made up their mind regardless of common sense.

S&F anyway

I love when people who have allowed a complete suppression of their rights and more and more every day talking about common sense...

The anti-gun culture does not use ANY common sense...

A typical "common sense" argument is let's see...."You don't NEED a gun with 30 bullets to defend yourself"... "Those guns won't do you any good against an oppressive govt.", "Those guns are used in less than one percent of gun shootings in America and we have to stop gun violence".

Many types of crimes like robberies are conduted by GROUPS of people and many times it takes MULTIPLE shots to disable and stop a single assailant.

Yeah, small arms available to Afghanis haven't been effective against the might of the US military (insert sarcasm) and the former might of the Soviet Union (Insert MORE sarcasm).

The emotional arguments of the types of victims does NOT detract from two things. One, that it is still so small a percentage that a further curtailment of our rights (illegally I might add) is not constituted. Two, given the lack of access to small arms, a MUCH more destructive method (explosives) will be employed that it is IMPOSSIBLE to control. (You can go into ANY corner drug store and by high explosives without the need to mix ANYTHING).

So don't tell me that WE don't use common sense, although logic would be a better term to use, because common sense is no longer ALL that COMMON.

Jaden

Originally posted by DAVID64

common trait among gun owners and that is extreme and illogical paranoia

Got any proof to back that? Or is that just the opinion of another anti gun fanatic, grasping at any reason to dis arm the lawful gun owner?

Sure, see gun owners comments on this very board, other internet forums, or by talking to them in real life.

They own their guns because everyone is out to get them...people are trying to break into their house to kill them, there are hidden assasins at the grocery store so they have to carry there, the terrorists are coming, they need more guns, more ammo, and big guns to protect themselves when society collapses, and of course, they are the last line of defense against they evil government

Nah, none of that sounds extremely illogical and paranoid.

An elderly person drove down the wrong side of the freeway into oncoming traffic in my area yesterday.. Caused some wrecks and maybe killed some people, I haven't heard updates on their conditions yet.

They were just another victim of Americas Car Culture. When will people see that enough is enough and ban automobiles? Do you know how many people die from automobile accidents?

Maybe we should require a yearly test and issue a drivers license only to those who pass. The test needs to be harder though. It's way too easy to get a drivers license. Considering they take it away over the slightest infraction, MAYBE THEY SHOULD MAKE IT HARDER TO GET IN THE FIRST PLACE.

I am seriously sick of people dying because of simple Transportation devices!! Going from point A to point B should not be so hazardous to your health!!! I should not have to lie awake at night wondering if my wife is going to make it home safely! I should not have to sit here and wonder if some maniac is gonna crash into her, or if some confused old person will hit her head on because he didn't see the signs saying "Wrong Way", or some 16 year old who got their license in less than a day will change lanes without looking and force her into the guard rail!

Gun deaths/injuries are just a drop in the bucket compared to automobile deaths/injuries! We should all be going after the real culprit that's sitting out in the driveway.

Or...... Maybe we just need more strenuous testing to make sure that elderly, confused people or anyone else otherwise unable to behave responsibly cannot get behind the wheel or own a gun legally.

It's not that guns are bad, or cars are bad...its not even that old people or teenagers are bad. The problem here, is that its just too easy to get your hands on these things. We need a harder driving test that covers much more material. Same with a gun.

Is it ever legal in any state to shoot someone for pulling into a driveway? I mean, come on, this old guy was clearly not thinking clearly. He probably should not own a gun. Or a drivers license for that matter.

Wow, this is crazy and people still defending a gun owner like him?

When i went 200km north to a resort with a friend, i had to pick up a friend's friend in an UNKNOWN neighborhood, all i had was GPS, seeing the area is not a perfect grid like the city.... i ended on the house behind my friends house. i walked up and knocked on the door.. and thank god it was Canada... or i would have been a dead man.

I should stay away from non city areas in states!

reply to post by xedocodex


Your argument is quite, Picasso-esque!

Perhaps it's time for a new brush? Something a bit more suitable to acute details, than the bucket of hogwash that you are currently tossing at your canvas?

reply to post by GoOfYFoOt


www.ajc.com...

This is an interesting comment from the Distrcict Attorney that will be be prosecuting the case. At least there is some solace in knowing some people prefer to get all of the story before jumping to emotional conclusions.

Gwinnett District Attorney Danny Porter said he knows
little about the facts of this case but said, if deadly forced
is used to protect yourself or your home “there has to be
some reasonable belief that you’re about to suffer death
or great bodily injury to prevent the commission of a
forcible felony.”

“A lot of it’s going to depend on what happened out
there,” Porter said. “I know 911 was called. But I don’t
know who called it, or when.”

Originally posted by Libertygal
reply to post by GoOfYFoOt

 

www.ajc.com...

This is an interesting comment from the Distrcict Attorney that will be be prosecuting the case. At least there is some solace in knowing some people prefer to get all of the story before jumping to emotional conclusions.

Gwinnett District Attorney Danny Porter said he knows
little about the facts of this case but said, if deadly forced
is used to protect yourself or your home “there has to be
some reasonable belief that you’re about to suffer death
or great bodily injury to prevent the commission of a
forcible felony.”

“A lot of it’s going to depend on what happened out
there,” Porter said. “I know 911 was called. But I don’t
know who called it, or when.”

edit on 30-1-2013 by Libertygal because: (no reason given)

Yes, thanks for bringing that. I have read that story, as well as several others, related to this incident.

It does not strike me as odd, that each story has minor discrepancies, from the story before it. It is quite common for reporters, these days, to just regurgitate, what they find on other news sites, and add their own little flair and touches, to avoid the appearance of a "copy and paste"....

What happened to good old-fashioned journalism? Where an actual investigation of their own would occur, to try and find that detail that the others missed? The current excuse for news, is a joke at best, and something much more sinister and evil, potentially...

As, I have stated, and the DA has framed it nicely, the investigation, upon being completed will most likely reveal a better picture of what actually happened that night. And, if the gentleman experienced justifiable fear, and if the defense can properly show that the gentleman was in fear, and that his fear was reasonable, then this will go away.

reply to post by GoOfYFoOt


I couldn't agree with you more about the media.

When my son was about 8, 3 hispanc males in a car tried to abduct him as he was walking home from school. He was in our apartment complex, only one parking area from our unit.

A young black male was sitting in the passenger seat of another car that was idling outside the building when the car pulled up behind, and the hispanic male got out of the back door and grabbed my son.

My son started screaming and kicking, gaining the attention of the black male in the other car. He got out of his car, approached the hispanic male, demanding he release my son. He did so, and he told my son to run. My son escaped home, where he told me of the event.

We reported it to the police, of course. Some days later, I got a phone call from the investigator asking me if I had seen the article in the paper, which I had not. Upon obtaining the article, I was so shocked because the story in the paper was so from the truth as to be nearly unrecognizable.

I wish people would just understand that yes the stories in the papers have some truth, citing them for quotes is fine, but to use multiple sources for citing facts. This is why there are so many discrepancies in stories.

People latch onto a story that may have OPINION that slants to their liking, but the facts bear out a totally different story. Sadly, people tend to gravitate to stories that match their agendas rather than searching for truth, even if it damages their agenda.