Is This Better?

Originally posted by twitchy
But just to let you know that I am in the process of remedying that problem, I uploaded a page to geocities just for you.

Funny, my geocities account uploads fine...

WHAT IS THAT!?!? You claimed to have PROOF, in the form of a masonic monitor, that Freemasonry explicitly tells its members to lie in court to protect each other, DID YOU NOT?!?!? What you have provided here is completely irrelevant to the original discussion. You are going in circles and avoiding the original subject, and this shows that you truly have nothing.

Now as to Freemasonry and Zionism, yes I can prove it. But before I reply to that question, I want to know if you are going to seriously deny this?

Absolutely, Freemasonry has nothing to do with modern Zionism in any way. Now stop trying to change the subject! You are doing this because you know you LIED about your original claim! Admit it!!!

Now, like Axeman stated, STOP PUSSYFOOTING AND PROVIDE THE SCANS THAT PROVE YOUR ORIGINAL CLAIM!


[edit on 5-9-2005 by sebatwerk]

The scans will come when I am good and damned good and ready to post them, mason. Either way, that is another thread, comming soon. How about Kosher, can you stay on topic?

EDIT:
"Antisemitism and anti-masonry often — implicitely or explicitely — go hand in hand."
-freemasonry.bcy.ca...
I wonder why you and other masons on this board are so quick to deny what is blatantly professed on MASONIC websites and Literature? Either your lying outright, or the Masonic Literature is.

www.mason.org.tr...
There is a
clear relationship between Freemasonry, Judaism and International Zionism

www.edume.org...
Freemasonry. This is a secret Jewish organization working covertly for the realization of the Jews' greatest interests. Freemasonry is a deceptive word which deludes the hearers to believe that it is a noble vocation, for its meaning is 'the free builders'. Its motto is 'liberty, fraternity, equality'.
2. B'nai B'rith, i.e., 'Sons of the Covenant'. This association was established in 1834 in America.
3. World Lyons Clubs. The meaning of Lyons is 'lions'. They are Masonic clubs the center of which is in America and they have secret agents in all parts of the world.
4. The Rotary Clubs. They were established in 1905 in Chicago in America and later spread to all parts of the world.

Zionism is connected to Freemasonry, but Zionism is purely Jewish in its form, style, content and membership and serves the Jews' goals directly. It is the official executive apparatus of world Jewry. As for Freemasonry, it is inwardly Jewish. It raises general humanitarian slogans, and non-Jews may rally under its banner. It is a secular, atheistic and secret movement that serves the Jews indirectly. It is the hidden force which creates the opportunities for the Jews. Therefore Zionism uses it for the realization of its goals.
Hadith and Islamic Culture, Grade 10, (2001) p. 101

www.radioislam.org...
FREEMASONRY
Zion has many arms, and one of them is Freemasonry. Freemasonry practically came into being along with Zionism and is its fellow-traveller. The Freemasons fulfil approximately the same rôle for Zionism as the Jesuits do for Roman Catholicism. The early Freemasons were the builders of the Temple of Solomon. Large numbers of secret Freemasonic lodges have at all times served as a means of fooling people by promising to build a better world, a world of goodness, charity, equality and justice, but in actual fact as a means of enticing people into the nets of Zion, of placing them under Zion's command and, through those people, directing countries and events.

www.conspiracyworld.com...
On May 3, 1996 in Israel, Tel Aviv police raided an apartment, joined by reporters from a TV news program and the daily newspaper Davar Rishon. They found a bizarre scene. The walls were covered in Latin script, skulls and bones graced the shelves, swords were crossed and mounted behind an altar. Five doors led to secret passageways with red blinking intruder warning lights."
"The news reports the next day announced, 'The apartments were used for ceremonies by the Freemasons, an organization whose membership boasts cabinet ministers and high ranking army officers.'" (Inside Israel, August 1996 edition, pages 4-6)

educate-yourself.org...
Important Points of Connection Between Zionism and Freemasonry
[edit on 5-9-2005 by twitchy]

[edit on 5-9-2005 by twitchy]

Originally posted by twitchy
The scans will come when I am good and damned good and ready to post them, mason. Either way, that is another thread, comming soon.

I'm not holding my breath, thespian.

Funny how you attempt to use the word 'mason' to denigrate me, infortunately for you it doesn't work since masons are just, honorable and upright men, with a long legacy of greatness. I interpret your snide remark as a compliment. You, on the other hand, have revealed yourself as a spiteful, envious and bitter individual.

Just be a man and admit that you lied and have no proof whatsoever of what you claimed. End this now; stop stalling because it makes you look less than honorable.

Anyway, if I can keep the masons at bay long enough to actually discuss the topic here, even NASA is looking into having the International Space Station Kosher Certified, giving some credence to the old addage that "The World Is Not Enough"...


Even the trucks that haul your food must now be certified Kosher as well...

Hell even insecticides and Organic products are 'having' to be certified Kosher, right down to your wholesome bio-herbicides.
And no, you don't have a choice anymore...

Hmmm 40% of products for 3% of the population's religous requirements? Actually that 40% is a very conservative estimate, if you have actually looked when you shop, you'll find 40% actually hard to believe. The ultimate insult is that we pay extra to have to have our food, indeed our entire food industy, including Steel Mills and Simethicone makers, and every truck and glove in between, and it isn't even up to the standards of what they call Ethnic kosher!??!

Source
The kosher market can be considered as two separate markets: "mainstream and kosher" and "ethnic kosher." "Mainstream and kosher products" are those foods that are kosher-certified but have little relevance or bearing on traditional kosher food ways. These kosher-certified products are as much at home on the shelves of consumers who have no interest in kosher foods as they are on the shelves of those consumers for whom the kosher symbol is important. "Ethnic kosher foods," on the other hand, are products that are "kosher by design"--such items as gefilte fish, matzoh, schav and borscht (both types of soup), and other traditional ethnic Jewish food products. "Ethnic kosher foods," like other ethnic foods, are consumed by anyone interested in those specific flavor profiles and foods.

Big money to be made in the Kosher Certification business, fake Kosher certificate apparently runs you about five grand on the black market.

Holy [snowballs] , Batman©! There's a conspiracy by the Jewish bankers, etc.



[Mod edit: profanity]

[edit on 12-5-2006 by kinglizard]

WOW he calls you a liar and you come back with Kosher this and Kosher that?! what does Kosher have to do with zionism 1st of all?

and second...who the hell cares about Kosher?!

we want to see some proof instead of what you just THINK is going on. proof you say you have but wont devulge. (oh i can prove it alright, i just dont want to).

Either go away, or do what you say your going to do.

Originally posted by umwolves123
who the hell cares about Kosher?!

Actually dude, it may come as some disapointment for you but this thread is about kosher, and I have tried my damndest to keep it that way. What you are referring to is from another thread entirely, why don't you find it and we'll discuss it there eh?

Twitchy : We understand what you're saying. Some people are getting real
upset about all of this. Their thoughts aren't kosher when it comes to the
subject of the thread. They're getting too political.

You're pointing out a major scam. Some people can't handle the truth, because it
isn't kosher. (It's like that word rules.)

Where did this market demand for kosher come from? From the 97% or the 3%?
I'd venture the 3%. So, if the 3% demands kosher, why does the 97% have to
chip in and foot the bill too? I don't see anyone buying my groceries for me.
Does the 3% have to chip in if the 97% want something different?

If kosher is wanted, and a butcher wants to provide it, maybe he should say, "Okay, if you want me to provide a "special kosher product", then I'll have to
charge you for every one of those kosher inspections. After all, isn't he going
beyond the call of duty, working harder to provide kosher?

Originally posted by SIEGE
Where did this market demand for kosher come from? From the 97% or the 3%?
I'd venture the 3%. So, if the 3% demands kosher, why does the 97% have to
chip in and foot the bill too? I don't see anyone buying my groceries for me.
Does the 3% have to chip in if the 97% want something different?

Good Question. What's really twisted is that of that 3% of the population, most of them don't keep kosher diets, and amazingly the kosher certification is differentiated between what they call mainstream kosher and ethnic kosher, and by their own admission mainstream kosher doesn't represent ANY difference in the quality of the product at all, in other words its just a stamp and a fee. Alot of fees... Billions. Makes you wonder where all that money goes, and makes you wonder why freemasons are the only ones who have been so hot and bothered by this thread.

Originally posted by twitchy

www.mason.org.tr...
There is a
clear relationship between Freemasonry, Judaism and International Zionism

I noticed these guys changed the wording of their page, this quote no longer exsists on the web site, even the google cached page reflects the changes if that tells you anything. I'd like to think I had something to do with that.

Seriously though guys, take the Twitchy challenge and see if you can go to the Grocery and purchase your normal fare without buying anything labeled Kosher. My wife and I tried it and all we were able to find was potted meat, hot dogs and potato chips. The Milk we thought wasn't kosher until we gave the local Milk Plant a call to find out, it's Kosher as well as some things that weren't marked kosher in the Bakery section, the cases they came in were marked instead. 3% of the population charging a religous, federally regulated, taxation of your food. not just your food either, your soaps, your bleach, your steel industry, the glue on your stamps, inks, etc. ad naseum.

If there is a kosher tax, i.e. the price of food is raised in order for it to certified kosher, it is most likely on the order of a fraction of a penny on the dollar so it is not as if people are paying large sums of their food bill to so some rabbi can sign off on the food production. Even if the kosher tax were significant, there are plenty of food products on the shelf that are not kosher. Virtually every food product that contains meat of any kind, not just pork, in your typical super market is not kosher. Fresh fruits and vegetables, nuts, bread, and many dairy products are also often not kosher. So it is quite easy to walk into any supermarket in America and buy a week's worth of groceries and not purchase one kosher product.

If you really want to get mad about a burdensome tax, you should be upset over the money that is wasted on pharmaceutical regulations. As someone who used to work in pharmaceuticals, I have seen millions of dollars being wasted on bureacracies which do little to keep the drug supply safe. The cost of medication is high in part because of the bureacracy. Having worked in pharmaceutical quality control laboratories, I can personally atest to the fact that literally dozens of man hours can be spent on a simple task like putting a new mouse on a computer or changing a seal on a piece of equipment.

Hmmm... makes me want to start a new religion with the belief that we can NOT eat anything deemed Kosher. Maybe in a hundred years we can get the food supply back to square 1.


Ehh... I think I'll go cook a porkchop! After all my religion now mandates it!

wow.

just found this thread, twitchy.

great stuff. i'll have to read the whole thread when i have more time.

i wonder if masons got uppity because of the shared handbook of world domination, 'the protocols of the elders of zion/sion/spyon/psion'?

The Kosher tax should be clearly labelled as to not mislead consumers. I do not agree that 99% of the total populace would prefer to pay for the less than 1% who wish to invest in Kosher.

If Halal foods were all hidden all over I would say the exact same thing - but Halal foods, I find to be labelled correctly and alhtough there are many people who chose to buy Halal foods, I do not know of 99% of non-Muslims having to pick up the cost.

Anyone who denies the obvious attempt by the ADL to cover this up must suffer from Fluoride poisoning, IMO.

Cinosamitna

To me it is not the fact that we are paying an extra amount, because indeed the total money per person paid out is insignificant to our budget. what bothers me is that there is no sure documentation of where the money goes after it has been paid to this Rabbi. The volume of tax being collected per item is quite significant indeed, any may very well be able to fund a terrorist organization such as the Jewish Defense League, or perhaps another political entity that would like nothing more but to control the way everyone thinks about Jews such as the Anti-Defamation League.

I'll be damned to find out the money American citizens are paying to these Rabbis is funding a terrorist group such as the JDL.

One of the reasons there is no "Kosher Tax" is that there is no legal definition of Kosher.

As a matter of fact, different authorizing bodies use different symbols, don't they? K is one group of authenticators, while "U" in a circle is Union of Orthodox Rabbis, which is a different group.

It would be perfectly legal for Twitchy to come up with "Twitchy certified Kosher" where Kosher means whatever Twitchy says it is, and then he/she could charge customers wanting his/her "Circle T" logo on their soda pop and toaster pastries.

You could start your own Kult, do the same.

A "tax" is mandatory. No one in the USA can force you to seek Kosher certification against your will.


What about "Tom and Jerry's Ice Cream." It is a premium brand, and large grocers can be expected by their customers to carry the stuff. Yet T&J charge "extra," so that their ingredients are "pure," and a part of the profits go to their various leftwing "hobbies."

Same with Coors, "rocky mountain springwater." It's an anti-plains-state consortium; they are driving Kansas-brewed beer out of the market, and their money goes to right wing nuttery like the NRA. So, there's a "rocky mountain springwater tax" built into every can of mule pee you drink . . .

If U and K are taxes, so is leftwingery in my ice cream, and rightwingery in my beer.

so there.

.

[edit on 19-8-2006 by dr_strangecraft]

Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
What about "Tom and Jerry's Ice Cream." It is a premium brand, and large grocers can be expected by their customers to carry the stuff. Yet T&J charge "extra," so that their ingredients are "pure," and a part of the profits go to their various leftwing "hobbies."

Same with Coors, "rocky mountain springwater." It's an anti-plains-state consortium; they are driving Kansas-brewed beer out of the market, and their money goes to right wing nuttery like the NRA. So, there's a "rocky mountain springwater tax" built into every can of mule pee you drink . . .

Yeah, but Ben and Jerry's and Coors aren't charging food companies, plastics and steel industries, detergent makers, transportation industries, and so on and so on, for federally regulated yet completely religous based fees at the behest of three percent of the population, most of which don't even keep traditional kosher either. Rocky Mountain 'Spring Water' assures some difference in quality, as do 'pure' ingredients, and I'm pretty sure their profits from these qualifications don't amount to a multi-billion dollar extortion either, nor are Ben and Jerry going around charging fees to the steel industry, or the NY Water System, ad nauseum. Let's not try to mitigate a multi-billion dollar scam by saying an ice cream company says they use pure ingredients, that's not even in the same ball park, and last I heard, Ice Cream or beer aren't a religous interest.
What part of 3% making billions and billions in the US alone on 97% for their religous considerations sound kosher to you?

If Twitchy started his own brand name and applied a purity tax, I'd still rather pay for his, than your's Dr_Strangecraft.

Does Twitchy's brand name have any protection by the ADL like the Kosher Tax does? And if the ADL has nothing to do with Kosher and if Kosher has no legal respresentation than why does ADL stick it's nose in where it doesn't belong in the first place? Somehow, I think "kosher" is legally defined but just not to the general public.

Regardless of the legality, if a so-called purity' tax or any taxes go toward a pre-supposed improvement, it should be labelled clearly - whether Kosher or not. But Kosher "draino" give me a break! Unless you like to drink draino, I don't think a Kosher tax is really necessary - please label it clearly and then the consumer can decide. Also, the Kosher tax is just a name - you can name it whatever you wish but the moral implication here is that the labels are misleading regardless and many corporations have subsuquently dumped the labels because it was not helping their bottom line anyhow.

The 'masked' religious aspect of Kosher is simply being used for material gain via the implied notion that Kosher is undefined. One does not have to be an adept to see through this scam

Originally posted by twitchy

Yeah, but Ben and Jerry's and Coors aren't charging food companies, plastics and steel industries, detergent makers, transportation industries, and so on and so on, for federally regulated yet completely religous based fees

emphasis added by strangecraft

In my mind, that's the crux of your arguement, right there; the idea that it's somehow federally regulated. I've tried to read through this thread, but the personal attacks are a bit much to wade through. Twitchy, if you've already posted evidence of federal regulation, could you please post it again? It would probably change my mind, for one.

at the behest of three percent of the population, most of which don't even keep traditional kosher either.

If they don't really keep kosher, then it implies that they are not much of social action force---they're not going to boycott my brand of bubble gum, if they don't really care that much about Kosher-ness.

I also haven't noticed any posts about the impact of Kosher advertizing on GENTILE populations, either. I buy "hebrew national" hotdogs for instance. Not because I care about Kosher, but I know that there is a bit less bone meal, flour, and pig sphincter per cubic inch of hotdog. I suspect that most of their purhcasers feel the same.

Rocky Mountain 'Spring Water' assures some difference in quality, as do 'pure' ingredients, and I'm pretty sure their profits from these qualifications don't amount to a multi-billion dollar extortion either

But your argument isn't primarily about the AMOUNT of money involved, right? I hear you saying that it's wrong for moral reasons, and not simply because it makes someone a profit, right?

and last I heard, Ice Cream or beer aren't a religous interest.
What part of 3% making billions and billions in the US alone on 97% for their religous considerations sound kosher to you?

Is this about money, then? or about the immorality of imposing "tax" on gentiles?

Is this wrong because it's done in the name of religion? If so, then maybe we ought to be talking about foods that advertize their vegetarian credentials. A significant portion of vegetarians keep their practice for religious reasons.

Look, I just don't see any evidence of coercion here. What Coke spends on lawsuits to defend its logo is a huge multiple of what it costs to Kosher their corn syrup. Same with every other "big business." The side effect of Capital is that your money gets used in questionable ways once you give it to somoene else. But then, it quit being your money at that point.

I'm Jewish and I really did not find anything wrong with this post. There really is no reason to be paying more for something that shouldn't be labled as Kosher unless they are trying to skim more money off each sale.

If it's true you have to call fraud if it's fraud whether it's a Jewish product or not.

By the way I'm also a Mason so am I going to get in trouble for sticking up for him

Am I missing something- why is everyone on his back for this?