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Is This Better?

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posted on Sep, 25 2007 @ 12:22 PM
Of course it takes so much effort and time to research something, but honestly, Got Anything Besides Wiki?

Edit: Another thing Axeman, I know you already said you wouldn't be bothered to actually read the thread, but if you had you see that your useless wiki article has already been posted, debunked, and reposted. If we're going to dance, at least learn the music.

[edit on 25-9-2007 by twitchy]

posted on Sep, 25 2007 @ 12:46 PM

Originally posted by twitchy
Why is that the Freemasons here are the ONLY ones defending this rip off?
Vested intrest?

Maybe because Freemasons are the most likely people to browse the "Secret Societies" forum? Just pointing out the most likely possibility. I mean, the thread title doesn't really jump out to capture the attention of others. It was a boring day when I first first waltzed into here.

posted on Sep, 25 2007 @ 01:49 PM

Originally posted by Beachcoma
Maybe because Freemasons are the most likely people to browse the "Secret Societies" forum? Just pointing out the most likely possibility.

Yeah maybe that's it, I hope you're right otherwise, it's very telling. Of course it's also quite possible that I put this thread in the Secret Societies forum knowing full well what the response was going to be, and from whom, and I just wanted folks to see it happen for themselves.

[edit on 25-9-2007 by twitchy]

posted on Sep, 25 2007 @ 01:51 PM
Actually, I think this is a very interesting thread. Of course, anytime anything associated with the Jewish people or Israel comes up, it seems to get contentious pretty quickly. Which is too bad, because emotions quickly cloud over the facts and what could be an exercise in learning something suddenly devolves into something else.

In doing a cursory glance at the search links that come up for this topic, they're primarily either extreme anti-semitic sites decrying the Joooos or hardcore JDL type sites who are a little >ahem< sensitive.

So one side seems to believe that the cost of food is being significantly increased by this "Kosher Tax", and the other view is that it's a negligible marketing expense and more than offset by the increased revenue generated by having the designation.

I can see both sides, and in fact in reading the early pages of this thread was getting a bit incensed myself. However, the more I read and consider it, I personally have been convinced it's no big deal. And believe me (or not), no one is more sensitive to grocery prices than I am.

I'm convinced things like the money spent on naming rights of sports stadia is probably a lot more price impactful than this kosher stuff. Hell, CEO & executive pay for mega corporations in general borders on the criminal.

I like Snopes very much as a source and here's what they have to say-
The Kosher Nostra

At this point, if someone can show me where this in fact increases the cost of food to the consumer beyond fractions of a cent per unit, I'm still prepared to be outraged.

posted on Sep, 25 2007 @ 02:41 PM
reply to post by twitchy

Interesting topic, nonetheless. Personally I can't say much else about it since it doesn't affect me whatsoever.

Hey if you want to do a little more research on something related, perhaps you could look into the "Halal" certification, the Muslim version of the Kosher cert. I don't know if there's a conspiracy behind that, but I remember once in Malaysia there was a controversy about it appearing on stuff that are halal anyway, in this case, fish. Of course it was quickly resolved (or buried, I don't know, I was very young then).

posted on Sep, 25 2007 @ 05:20 PM
I used to trust wiki and still do when I look up types of fish and words and such, but after the evidence of the c.i.a and others having their hand in it, I lost my trust there. I wouldn't count on wiki for a subject like this.

posted on Sep, 25 2007 @ 05:33 PM

Originally posted by exitestablishment
I used to trust wiki and still do when I look up types of fish and words and such, but after the evidence of the c.i.a and others having their hand in it, I lost my trust there. I wouldn't count on wiki for a subject like this.

Yeah, because the CIA and the Jews and Wiki are in kahoots. Everyone knows that.

posted on Sep, 26 2007 @ 12:06 PM
OK, so you don't like wiki (they're in it with the Jews, shhhhh...)...

Here you go:

...Companies do indeed pay for kosher certification.

As they also do, of course, for the right to display, say, the Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval (for which manufacturers must purchase advertisement space in Good Housekeeping magazine). Or as they indirectly do through increased manufacturing costs for the right to call their products “organic” or “natural.” To Bubba, however, the Jewish arrangement is singularly unkosher; it smacks, to his fuzzy lights, of a Jewish “shakedown.” If companies pay for a rabbi’s service, he unreasons, the cost must surely be passed on… secretly, of course… to “Gentile” consumers.

The risible accusation is nothing new; it resurfaces almost every time logic-challenged anti-Semites manage to catch their breath between rants on the Middle-East and “Jewish control of the media.” As to inconvenient facts, The New York Times reported in 1975 that the cost to General Foods for rabbinical supervision of its “Bird’s Eye” products worked out to .0000065 of a cent per item. A Heinz Company representative maintained that its own kosher labeling actually decreases the cost of items, by increasing the market for them – the only rational reason, of course, a company would choose to pay for such a service in the first place.

Source (emphasis mine)

The Facts


The cost to the consumer for this service is a miniscule fraction of the total production overhead; it is so negligible in practical terms as to be virtually non-existent. A May 18, 1975 New York Times article reported that the cost to General Foods' "Bird's Eye" Unit, for example, is 6.5 millionths (.0000065) of a cent per item. Furthermore, a representative of the Heinz Company has said that the per item cost is "so small we can't even calculate it," and that such labeling actually makes products less costly by increasing the market for them.

Indeed, according to marketing manager Steven Zamichow, quoted in the Washington Post, "Entenmann's Inc. received kosher certification in 1981 and sales of [its] baked goods 'increased substantially.'" Visits to the Entenmann's plant, from a "mashgiach," or kashruth inspector, are provided by the Union of Orthodox Jewish Congregations of America. The UOJC is one of several groups that maintain such a kosher inspection service, certifying foods and related products to be in compliance with Jewish dietary laws through all phases of production. The profit from these products goes, of course, to the companies that manufacture them and the stores that sell them, not to "the Jews."*


...According to the Washington Post (Sept. 27, 1990), "Some kosher marketing officials estimate there may be as many as six million Americans who seek out Kosher foods in the supermarket. Of these only 1.5 million are Jewish. Moslems and Seventh Day Adventists also adhere to certain aspects of the Jewish dietary laws, but the bulk of Kosher shoppers appear to be consumers who believe the Kosher certification. . .means higher quality food."

Yet whether or not they choose to purchase kosher food products, most Americans will reject the bigotry inherent in the "Kosher Tax" propaganda, recognizing it as another effort by extremists to exploit legitimate public concerns (e.g., taxes, the economy, etc.) as vehicles for anti-Semitism.

* In the separate case of kosher meat and poultry purchased at kosher butcher shops (as distinguished from the broad general range of mass-market consumer goods certified kosher), the consumer does pay a higher price. This cost is due to the more intensive, continuous rabbinical supervision required for the exacting technicalities of kosher slaughter and inspection, processing, storage and quality of kosher meat -- an inescapable necessity for this particular product, applicable only to its limited market, not the general consumer.

Source (emphasis mine)

OK, here's two more sources (in addition to the Snope's article posted above) that support my initial reasoning that it does not make business sense to pass this cost on to the consumer; not only that, but even if you figure cost to the end consumer based on the numbers given in the sources (granted, they cite the same original sources, but they seem to me to be credible -- unless of course the NY Times and the Washinton Post are under Jewish control
) you would have to buy 6.5 MILLION individual kosher products to have given up a single penny to this utterly horrific scam.

Wow. They're really sticking it to us, aren't they?

Now then, I suppose you are going to ignore me or otherwise decline comment, but so far in this debate I have given you everything you have asked of me and you have given me very little, except a hard time about being a Mason.

Ball's in your court, homie.

[edit on 9/26/07 by The Axeman]

posted on Sep, 26 2007 @ 04:54 PM
Hey that's much better axeman, now if you really want to impress me, do yourself a favor and try reading the thread, you'll see that I've already addressed your points, indeed, I've even quoted and linked to the same material myself. Been there.
What part of multi-billion 'for profit' don't you grasp or have evidence against?

posted on Sep, 27 2007 @ 02:26 PM
reply to post by twitchy

I few points here, forgive me if any of this has been stated but I am struggling to read through this stuff:

Food inspections like these are for the benefit of the manufacturer. If the food is marked as kosher (or halal) then they can benefit from a wider market share just by putting a little symbol on the side. Have you noticed the halal symbol appearing on everything as well? urrgh Muslim food!

Another example is organic food. To call your food organic you must produce it within strict guidelines and your facilities and methods have to be inspected. Sound familiar? What happens when you buy organic food? you pay more for it as aside from the probable decrease in 'efficiency' it carries this certification cost.

By the way, the third item in your google search was "anti-semetic hoaxes: Kosher food tax" Why do you think its called that?

In the UK, all meat produced has to be inspected by a qualified Vet to ensure there are no bits of spinal cord left in it. Who pays for that? Whoever pays for the meat.

In the EU, all manner of products have to be inspected for safety etc before they can be legally sold. This is carried out by qualified engineers. Who pays for that?

All kinds of companies are certified to meet the internationa quality standard ISO9000: 2000. You pay a fee and then if you make 1 product or 100's of millions of product like Birds Eye then you divide the fee by the number of products and that is added to your overhead. Simple and no conspiracy.

[edit on 27-9-2007 by EJHoover]

[edit on 27-9-2007 by EJHoover]

posted on Sep, 27 2007 @ 05:27 PM

Originally posted by EJHoover
Food inspections like these are for the benefit of the manufacturer

Sure they are, 3% of the population creates such a market that all their products should be certified, amounting to billions upon billions. Does that even sound real to you?

posted on Sep, 28 2007 @ 02:24 AM

Originally posted by twitchy

Originally posted by EJHoover
Food inspections like these are for the benefit of the manufacturer

Sure they are, 3% of the population creates such a market that all their products should be certified, amounting to billions upon billions. Does that even sound real to you?

Yes, if you have anything to do with marketing a high volume, low profit item like 'food stuffs' - 3% additional market share is worth it. By the way, I keep seeing you quoting this "billions upon billions" stuff but the only numbers I have seen you present represent the entire market for Kosher foods, a large percentage of which would have been bought by Gentiles, either because they didn't know (or care) it was kosher or because they think it is yummy.

Dude, please show me verifiable figures from someone in the food industry or government that shows that this inflates the cost per item by any meaningful amount. I have seen sources quoting from the food industry that say that it is an infinitesimal amount but I have seen nothing that says "billions". Come on and win me over, I like your reasoning... I wonder if we could find out how much Birds Eye spends on getting the fire safety of its buildings inspected? I don't see why I have to pay to stop their staff from being burnt alive!

Mama! fetch me my lap-top, I feel some Googling comin' on!

p.s. I am not a Mason

[edit on 28-9-2007 by EJHoover]

posted on Sep, 28 2007 @ 02:58 AM

Originally posted by JustMe74

If the quoted number above ($40-$45k per YEAR) for Kosher certification is even accurate (and I have no idea if it is or not), that is a ridiculously small amount of money for a company like, say, Proctor and Gamble, to pay to obtain business from Orthodox and Conservative Jews that they would not have otherwise obtained. Huge companies like P&G and food companies typically pay millions of dollars per month for advertising... $45k per year is a drop in the bucket.

If you're upset about the cost of your food, you should be complaining about the price of oil or the fact that most grocery stores are unionized, and hence have extra cost built into their markups, or anything that actually affects the prices you are paying.

Apart from the fat that I agree with the rest of the quote, the $40-45K quoted is to employ a full time supervisor. A person. How much do you get paid Twitchy?

Regardless of belief in the theological basis for this (As an Atheist, I don't either), you are really barking up the wrong tree when, for instance, you look at the nefarious things that your taxes are spent on by your own government. Get mad about that

As an aside but still on topic, I watched a documentary in the UK once about a team of these Rabinical inspectors in London. I remember one scene when a guy brought in a new electric kettle to be blessed...

I am not saying that this is not a ridiculous, outdated example of religion driving pointless issues that really have nothing to do with moral or ethical issues (are you really a bad person if you use an unblessed kettle or soap dish?) but your rant and refusal to debate this properly with supportable information makes you appear a teeny bit bigoted (where is the reference to the Canadian tax-break specifically for this?).

posted on Sep, 28 2007 @ 12:15 PM

Originally posted by EJHoover
I am not saying that this is not a ridiculous, outdated example of religion driving pointless issues that really have nothing to do with moral or ethical issues (are you really a bad person if you use an unblessed kettle or soap dish?) but your rant and refusal to debate this properly with supportable information makes you appear a teeny bit bigoted (where is the reference to the Canadian tax-break specifically for this?).

All I can say is good luck.

I'm going to make the time to go back through this thread, since Twitchy seems to think that will change my mind. I have read the first few pages and looked at the links before but I will refresh my memory and then revisit this thread.

Then, when Twitchy ignores me or tap-dances around me he won't have the option to defer to the older posts, rather than openly debate.

For now, I just think he's wrong and he doesn't want to concede. The facts speak for themselves.

posted on Sep, 28 2007 @ 02:07 PM
First of all, thanks to twitchy for another interesting topic, and one well worth researching (IMO). I don't think he's wrong at all. I just disagree at this point about the magnitude of the effect. Should the government be involved in a process of religious certification? Probably not, but the government is deeply involved in truth in labelling and I'm not sure I see a way around that.

The open questions for me are -

1-Has there been some strong arm, even extortionary, tactics utilized to "force" food suppliers (and others) into some sort of payola scam with reference to the kosher designation?

2- Does this process needlessly yet significantly inflate the costs to the consumer?

3-If #2 is true, what are those exhorbitant funds being used for? Are they funding some sort of religious/political agenda?

None of us want to pay more than we have to. There are a couple of ways to look at this. And if anyone thinks the fact that there's Jewish involvement doesn't color the perception, they're fooling themselves. On the one hand, I can see where there would be some concern about making an involuntary contribution to a group you have no interest in supporting, especially when you believe there's no viable alternative. The belief that this involuntary contribution is excessive and unavoidable only exacerbates the issue.

On the other hand (and this is where I currently reside), if it's a negligible (per unit) cost of doing business and viewed as a valuable marketing feature, and if it's something entered into freely by the manufacturers, I have no problem with it. In fact, I have much less problem with that than I do multi-million dollar compensation packages for executives including corporate paid country club memberships. Now THAT pisses me off, regardless of the exec's religious affiliation.

The fact that I might be paying an extra .03/year for hotdogs is pretty far down the list on my outrage schedule. $100,000,000 annual compensation for CEOs of health insurance firms, given my cost for insurance, and the way they perform for me, has me more irritated by magnitudes of...a lot.

posted on Sep, 28 2007 @ 05:31 PM
From Twitchy's source #1:

I am a Gentile, a mere Goy. A sub-human heathen in the Jew's minds and eyes. Cursed to be their slave and submit to their rule. (That's what they think.)

Twitchy's source #2 was debunked in the Snope's article already posted.

From Twitchy's source #3:

World Jewish Zionism, today, constitutes the last racist ideology still surviving and the Zionist's state of Israel, the last outpost of "Apartheid" in the World.
Israel constitutes by its mere existence a complete defiance to all international laws, rules and principles, and the open racism manifested in the Jewish State is a violation of all ethics and morals known to Man.

From Twitchy's source #4:

Excerpt from the
"Protocols of the Learned Mystical Elders of the Chabad Lubavitch, sons of the synagogue of Satan"
Known otherwise as
Learned Elders of Zion
16. At the present day we are, as an international force, invincible, because if attacked by some we are supported by other States. It is the bottomless rascality of the GOYIM peoples, who crawl on their bellies to force, but are merciless towards weakness, unsparing to faults and indulgent to crimes, unwilling to bear the contradictions of a free social system but patient unto martyrdom under the violence of a bold despotism - it is those qualities which are aiding us to independence. From the premier- dictators of the present day, the GOYIM peoples suffer patiently and bear such abuses as for the least of them they would have beheaded twenty kings.

From Twitchy's source #5 ( ):

Jews have transformed United States into a Zionist superpower

Jews herd stupid Americans like cattle against one people after another and they sell weapons to the enemy to kill Americans in order to profit from spilled blood.

FROM THE PROTOCOLS OF THE LEARNED ELDERS OF ZION -- "Throughout all Europe, and by means of relations with Europe, in other continents also, we must create ferments, discords and hostility. . . . if we allow the possibility of a general rising against us, we shall respond with the guns of America. . . ." -- SEE SOURCE

Twitchy's source #6 is probably the most reasonable so far, but still... it uses the $0.0000065/item figure, and claims that "if every American purchased an average of 35 kosher products per week, would be somewhere between $117,554,118 and $58 billion over the last 35 years"...

Uhhhhh... Twitchy? Did you not notice that leaves a range of $57,882,445,882? Think he had trouble pinning down a number?!

Besides that, the profits from the sales of kosher products go to the manufacturers and sellers; I'm sure the rabbis are paid either a salary or a per-visit fee, and you can damn sure bet even if they were paid $50K a year, it would be nothing compared to the increased revenues. WE ARE NOT PAYING FOR THIS.

From the same source:

People who consume products certified by the UOJC as “kosher” are paying for the privilege of consuming products that contain toxic preservatives and additives not excluded from Jewish dietary laws. For some reason, it has not occurred to the Jewish clergy to update dietary laws to meet the demands of modern food manufacturing processes.

Now aside from the implication that the consumers pay for this and it's not offset by larger sales volume, and the implication that all kosher foods have these toxins, this is something that may be somewhat valid. There are new things in foods that were not around when Deuteronomy was written, so it would make sense to revise the details of what is considered kosher or not.

Still nothing credible about higher prices due to kosher status, or a "kosher tax," other than a couple of wild stabs in the dark...

Are we starting to see a pattern here? This is just from the first three pages of this thread; what you seem to be basing your entire position on. I will continue to review and comment on your information, as that is what you have asked of me.

I see you still refuse to comment on my posts... I wonder if this will help?

Here's a tip: your argument is only as good as your sources are credible.

posted on Sep, 29 2007 @ 02:04 AM
I think the thread stands for itself, nothing to debate unless you guys can DISPROVE that the Kosher Profits are in the Billions of dollars, I've sourced that number from Jewish and Kosher sites, so read the thread then try to tell me what's not in it. As to the Canadian Tax Credit, it's 500 dollars, yes it's really for Kosher Expenses. Sorry if you don't believe it. I felt the same way until I bothered to look past the Antisemitism hooey and into the real issue of Kosher Racketeering.
If you guys have nothing to the contrary then case closed, even with your wiki-snopes speculative ambiguities. Neither even scratches the surface of the research in this thread. Again, if you have proof that they don't profit in the billions, then you have what we call around here, a hill of beans. Billions...
What sources would be good enough for you axeman?
The Chicago Jewish Sentinel? The Jewish Press? Washington Post? Jewish Newsletter? The B'nai B'rith Messenger?

The Chicago Jewish Sentinel
July 7, 1988
"Kosher products retail sales today amount to $30 billion a year"
In 1959, the Wall Street Journal estimated this "tax" at about $20 million and it is thought to be in the hundreds of millions today. The Jewish Post of July 30, 1976 reported that Rabbi Harvey Sentor admitted that Kov K was a "profit-making concern."
"Rabbi Bernard Levy, head of the Orthodox, "Committee For The Furtherance of Torah Observance," demonstrates how he stamps the Kosher symbol which has made him untold millions of dollars.(Tax free)"
"The New York Times, a Jewish owned daily, in a rare article on this subject back on May 18, 1975, reported that kosher symbols are deliberately printed "unobtrusively on labels" so that they will go unnoticed by Christians."

The Jewish Press
Feb. 26, 1988,
...quotes Menachem Lubinsky, a major marketer of kosher products as saying, "the industry should tell inquisitive Christians this line, Kosher has become something like the 'Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval'. It makes a product appear to be healthier and of better quality."
"A Dobie Pad ad appeared in "Women's Day Magazine" - with the "U" symbol has been deliberately painted out. This Dobie Pad ad appeared in Jewish publications nation-wide. - Note: There is an arrow to draw attention to the "U".

Washington Post
Nov. 2, 1987
quote Rabbi Schulem Rubin, an Orthodox rabbi from the Bronx as declaring:
"Kosher doesn't taste any better; kosher isn't healthier; kosher doesn't have less salmonella."
As the smallest change in ingredients or in the manner of processing requires an independent rabbinical review and an independent certification of kosher, any variation by a producer is considered to constitute a different product ? to consider just three examples, Astro Strawberry Yogurt is considered to be a different product from Astro Raspberry Yogurt, and different even from Astro Strawberries and Cream Yogurt; or Bertolli Extra Light Olive Oil is considered to be a different product from Bertolli Extra Virgin Olive Oil; or Kraft Unsweetened and Unsalted Peanut Butter is different from Kraft Light and Smooth Peanut Butter, which is different from Kraft Smooth Peanut Butter, which is different from Kraft Crunchy Peanut Butter.
"The Union of Orthodox Rabbis which issues the (U) symbol controls 80% of the Kosher certification business. They employ some 300 Rabbis who travel nation-wide "inspecting" food processing plants. First, the company must pay an annual fee for the use of the copyright symbol--the (U) or (K) or a version thereof. Second, the company must pay a separate heavy fee each time a team of Rabbis shows up to "inspect" their plant (Certain meat packers are required to hire Rabbis full time at extravagant salaries). Third, the company must pay these fees over and over again for each different product they make. Thus, General Foods pays dozens of separate fees. Also, each sub-contracting company which provides any type of ingredient which goes into the finished product must also pay separate fees to the "visiting Rabbis". Sometimes a single product may eventually be taxed as many as a dozen times right down the line before it reaches you the consumer! Last, but not least, these fees must be paid annually and they are increased each year."
The UOJCA extracts exactly the same levy as Kov K. Here is how the scheme works. An Orthodox Rabbi warns a company that unless their product is certified as Kosher they will face a boycott by every Jew in America. Once the company agrees, it must keep the amount paid a strict secret!"

Jewish Newsletter
William Zukerman
"The Jewish Newsletter is published by William Zukerman. In 1970 he came out with a super-sensational article charging that Orthodox rabbis had turned the kosher labeling business into a multi-million dollar racket. He said that absolutely nothing which does not contain meat or a meat by-product needs a kosher label. He quotes Mrs. Weiss-Rosmarin, "the greatest rabbinical authority," as testifying that no soft drink, Coca-Cola, nor any other drink needs kosher approval. Again, ONLY MEAT and items containing MEAT by-products need Kosher approval."
"The case of H?en-Dazs Vanilla Ice Cream proved unique in that it appeared to receive certification from two different kosher-accreditation agencies, the Council of Orthodox Rabbis (COR, Toronto) and the Union of Orthodox Jewish Congregations (OU, New York). Although the label for this product is shown under both categories below, it is counted only once, in the COR category." judaism/koshertax.html
"The Chicago Sun-Times of March 24th 1975 reported the problems that General Foods faced over it's Jell-O product. It was given the "K" kosher approval by a rabbi from the Furtherance of Torah Observance, but then the Union of Orthodox Jewish Congregations told Jewish people that Jell-O was NOT kosher and instructed them not to buy it. General Foods then invited the "Union" to inspect their factories and they then issued the "U" label...for yet another fee!"
"You will see these kosher approvals on a range of products which would not for a moment come into question over being kosher. Products like Coca Cola for instance. But to make the killing as comprehensive as possible, these organisations insisted that "their" people must know also if a product needs a kosher stamp or not. In other words they opened up their range of income to potentially every product. They began to issue K-Pareve and U-Pareve stamps, which means the product is "neutral" and does not need a kosher stamp!!!! And they charge for this! Labels began to appear of kitchen foil, sandwich bags, window and other cleansers."

The B'nai B'rith Messenger
April 2, 1965
"a nationally known rabbi, who had promised to expose the kosher racket was allegedly told to shut-up or else!"
"In 1960, 225 food products paid the Kosher tax, 476 in 1966, 1000 in 1974, and today 17,500 companies are paying this multi-level tax"
"To maintain their certification status, the corporation must hire, at their own expense, independent production supervisors to inspect production processes to insure kosher standards are maintained. Some companies, such as cheese manufacturers, must have full-time rabbis on staff to perform specific functions during the production process. "
"In contrast to the ADL view of kosher certification, former prominent New York business broker Michael Santomauro commented, ?One of the major unspoken reasons for anti-Semitism in the business world is the kosher tax....The ADL report went on to label anyone who believes kosher certification to be anything other than a process intended to protect the purity of food as ?anti-Semitic....
"However, in 1975 the New York Times reported that the cost to General Foods' ?Bird's Eye? Corn, for example, is 6.5 millionths (.0000065) of a cent per unit. In 2002 the Anti-Defamation League (ADL), in an effort to justify the kosher certification industry reported how ?a representative of the Heinz Company said that the per item cost is 'so small we can't even calculate it,' and that such labeling actually makes products less costly by increasing the market for them.?
"The amount may seem small, but so do most taxes. The devil is in the mathematical details. Depending upon whether a ?unit? is a package or the number of things, such individual kernels of peas or corn in a package, the revenue generated from kosher certification, if every American purchased an average of 35 kosher products per week, would be somewhere between $117,554,118 and $58 billion over the last 35 years. If the UOJC would just tell us the numbers, such conjecture would not be necessary." ?
"State kashrut supervision has recently come under attack in the courts. Last year the New Jersey Supreme Court overturned that state's kashrut regulations as an unconstitutional establishment of religion. In Maryland, a hot-dog vendor has brought a similar challenge against a Baltimore ordinance, and the case is pending in federal court."

posted on Sep, 29 2007 @ 02:14 AM
Here you go Axeman, some more sources you can deny all you like... See anything you have any real evidence to disprove what's here?
Federal judge denies Virginia inmate's request for kosher meals
By The Associated Press
ROANOKE, Va. ? A federal judge has denied a Virginia prisoner's request for kosher meals, declaring unconstitutional part of a federal law that dictates how government should treat the religious rights of inmates.
Senior U.S. District Judge James Turk ruled Jan. 24 that requiring prison officials to provide Ira Madison, 32, with kosher meals would place the right to religious freedom above other civil rights....Elliot Mincberg with People for the American Way said his organization would support an appeal.
"What we're talking about here is not granting preference to religion, but trying to remove the burdens on religions that are placed by government agencies," Mincberg said....

For a time Pepsi lost its kashrut (kosher) certificate because it was deemed to be promoting a culture that would corrupt the nation's youth through rock music concerts and advertisements featuring scantily-clad women.
Protesters recently staged an hour-long occupation of the magazine's offices, demanding that it print an apology for what they claimed was an anti-Semitic cover and articles....The accusations of anti-Semitism have come not only from the group that occupied Mr Wilby's offices, but also from the general secretary of the Labour Party, David Triesman....
The front cover of the magazine's edition of 14 January showed a gold Star of David impaling a Union Jack and was titled "A kosher conspiracy?" The collage on the cover is understood to have been supervised, and was certainly authorised, by the New Statesman's editor, Peter Wilby. An article by the journalist Dennis Sewell, and an accompanying one by John Pilger, looked at pro-Israel support in Britain and alleged Jewish influence.
"This time the scam will affect many destitute American consumers who depend on a McDonald's hamburger and fries for nutrition. These consumers will surely pay more for their food now that the Union of Orthodox Jewish Congregations and the rabbis associated with the Star-K symbol have been instrumental in forcing McDonald's to pay up $10 million dollars as part of a Cook County circuit court (Illinois) settlement ruled on May 20. The settlement, obtain on behalf of the rabbis and other groups, was litigated by a group of Jewish attorneys and decided by Jewish Judge Richard Seibel. What was Mc Donald's crime? They failed to divulge that their fries had a "beef" flavoring!"
Kosher food ? it's not just for Jews anymore.
In fact, most consumers would probably be shocked to know that a good number of the products already in their pantries and refrigerators are actually certified kosher.
From Pepperidge Farms and Oreo cookies to Heinz baked beans, Lipton Soup mixes and Wonder Bread, the variety of products certified for use by the kosher consumer is expanding at a pretty torrid pace to address the needs of a growing market.
According to Menachem Lubinsky, co-producer of Kosherfest and president and CEO of Integrated Marketing & Communications in New York, the U.S. produces about $500 billion worth of packaged foods of which $170 billion is certified kosher. On the ingredient side, there's also about $500 billion of which $300 billion is certified kosher.
Israel Shahak, ...professor of organic chemistry at Hebrew University, who had a scientist's respect for objective truth. He was also a concentration camp survivor, an Israeli army veteran and a campaigner for Arab human rights....
Shahak believes that Jews need to re-educate themselves about their history and religion. Jews are "a closed society" that uses "anti Semitism" to quash criticism, which is considered "hatred" or "self hatred."
Bishop Desmond Tutu of South Africa, who was awarded the 1984 Nobel Peace Prize, has candidly identified the reason: "The Israeli government is placed on a pedestal [in the US], and to criticize it is to be immediately dubbed anti-Semitic," he said. "People are scared in this country, to say wrong is wrong because the Jewish lobby is powerful -- very powerful."
On June 4, 2004 The Independent reported, "As home to Seinfeld , delis and the best bagels in the world, New York is indelibly linked to Jewish culture. But the Jews have made a shocking discovery: The city's water is not kosher."

Even Colleges have to pay up... note the word subsidize in here, wow I bet that really helps reduce the other 97% of the student's tuitions. Just one example out who knows how many universities...
In praising the hospital, Lieberman did not mention its dirty little secret: Its fertility clinic discriminates against mixed couples. Alone among Israeli hospitals, Shaare Zedek refuses to perform in-vitro fertilization on a Christian woman if her partner is a Jew, or on a Jewish women with a gentile husband. If, for example, Al Gore's daughter Karenna and her husband, Drew Schiff, were to seek treatment, they'd be turned away. It is a policy the head of the Israeli Association of Gynecology has denounced as "awful" and "unethical."
Since 1973, Israel has cost the United States about $1.6 trillion. If divided by today's population, that is more than $5,700 per person.

All ingredients must be charged fees...Right down to the very last lactic acid...
even a small time bakery in france isn't safe lol...
Are they trying to push it to new companies? Well, duh. Yeah they push it.
91% of buyers found new products or companies*
Usually, a company must initially pay an annual fee for the use of a Jewish certification symbol, such as the "U" or "K." The company will then pay an additional fee each time the rabbi or rabbis appear to conduct an "inspection". Thus, these fees must be paid repeatedly for the products produced.
Companies which produce goods which use ingredients or components from other facilities which have already been blessed or "certified", must again pay another Jew tax on their finished product. Needless to say, it is easy to see how many of the products purchased are taxed several times on their way to the consumer, who ultimately must assume the burden of the product's rip-off inflated price. It has been indicated that many of the companies who rely heavily on the symbols are paying as much as thirty percent of their profits...
Rabbi Sommers laughed through his bushy salt-and-pepper beard.
"I would like to put everyone at ease. From a Torah perspective, there is nothing wrong with making lots and lots of money,"...
That's why it's kosher to charge $8 for popcorn at movie theaters, or $150 for Google stock after buyers have a chance to read the "risk factors."...
The Torah and the Talmud demand complete honesty and disclosure in all business dealings, but they do not necessarily demand compassion...
So the Torah really is for tycoons. It doesn't expect players in competitive business arenas to be nice....
"More than $130 billion of packaged foods and $300 billion of ingredients produced in the U.S. are certified kosher."
How often have you read something like this?
Sigh, I wish it wasn't necessary, but I have encountered too many people who seem to believe that kosher certification results in higher prices, when, in fact, due to increased sales, quite the opposite is true.
Did you fall for it? Do you really think that the fees that manufacturers pay to Jewish rabbis, in exchange for permission to stamp the hechsher (any of the Kosher certification symbols) on food products makes the overall cost of making that product less?

They even offer seminars for jewish folks to teach them how to 'get in on the money'...
Hey AMWAY offers seminars too lol...

posted on Sep, 29 2007 @ 02:24 AM
3/4 of all prepackaged foods have some kind of kosher certification axeman, debunk that little ditty from
figures from
Maryland rabbi Jonah Gewirtz projected extracting $700,000 in one year from steel manufacturers alone:
"Nobody gets rich," he says, and adds that he's reminded of a Talmudic saying: "They who do something for the glory of God find their work being done by angels."

Originally posted by twitchy
Ah but most people don't know they are paying a jewish fee for these brands, many companies literally remove the kosher mark from their advertisements, while advertising the same product emphasizing the kosher label in jewish targeted advertisments.
Rabbi Luzer Weiss, newly appointed director of the Kosher Law Enforcement Unit of the New York State Department of Agriculture and Markets
Approximately 3/4 of all prepackaged foods have some kind of kosher certification, and most major brands have reliable Orthodox certification.
The Fundamental Rules
Although the details of kashrut are extensive, the laws all derive from a few fairly simple, straightforward rules:
Certain animals may not be eaten at all. This restriction includes the flesh, organs, eggs and milk of the forbidden animals.
Of the animals that may be eaten, the birds and mammals must be killed in accordance with Jewish law.
All blood must be drained from the meat or broiled out of it before it is eaten.
Certain parts of permitted animals may not be eaten.
Meat (the flesh of birds and mammals) cannot be eaten with dairy. Fish, eggs, fruits, vegetables and grains can be eaten with either meat or dairy. (According to some views, fish may not be eaten with meat).
Utensils that have come into contact with meat may not be used with dairy, and vice versa. Utensils that have come into contact with non-kosher food may not be used with kosher food. This applies only where the contact occurred while the food was hot.
Grape products made by non-Jews may not be eaten.
To protect consumers from fraud, all the government needs to do is make sure that no business claims a certification it has not earned. New York went further than that, which is why it ran into trouble with the courts.
Last year, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 2nd Circuit concluded that New York's kosher laws -- which required that food labeled as kosher be "prepared in accordance with the orthodox Hebrew religious requirements" -- violated the Establishment Clause. "The challenged laws excessively entangle government and religion," the court ruled, because they "require the State to take an official position on religious doctrine" and "take sides in a religious matter, effectively discriminating in favor of the Orthodox Hebrew view of dietary requirements."...
In the case that led to the 2nd Circuit's ruling, a Long Island butcher supervised by a Conservative rabbi was cited and fined repeatedly by the state's Division of Kosher Law Enforcement, which was run by an Orthodox rabbi.

We're told that it's antisemitic to claim that Jews run the Federal Reserve, yet when you look into it,
Rothschild Bank of London (Jewish)
Warburg Bank of Hamburg (Jewish)
Rothschild Bank of Berlin (Jewish)
Lehman Brothers of New York (Jewish)
Lazard Brothers of Paris (Jewish)
Kuhn Loeb Bank of New York (Jewish)
Israel Moses Seif Banks of Italy (Jewish)
Goldman, Sachs of New York (Jewish)
Warburg Bank of Amsterdam (Jewish)
Chase Manhattan Bank of New York (Rockefellers Interesting History...)

We're told that it's antisemtic to say that jews own the media, yet when you look into it,

The American Media, recently consolidated to the point of public outcry, is almost entirely owned by Jewish interests...

Originally posted by twitchy
Paramount, Disney, ICM and CAA New York, Times, Wall Street Journal Washington Post, Boston Globe, Washington Post Barron's, Dow Jones Village Voice Time, U.S. News & World Report Atlantic Monthly, NY Daily News, AOL-Time Warner, CNN News Group (before you say no that's Ted Turner, look up 'Walter Isaacson'), Time Warner's publishing division, Sports Illustrated, People, Fortune, Walt Disney Company, Touchstone, Buena Vista, Hollywood Pictures, Caravan Pictures, Miramax Films, Capital Cities/ABC, Inc., ESPN, Lifetime Television, A & E Television Networks, ABC Radio Network, Viacom, Inc., Paramount Pictures, CBS's Country Music Television Nashville Network Simon & Schuster, Scribner, The
Free Press, Pocket Books. Showtime, MTV, Nickelodeon, Fox Television Network, 20th Century Fox Films, and Fox 2000, New York Post and TV Guide are all owned or controlled by one religous organization.

This is not to mention all the subsidary companies in print and local media, newsgroups, etc. that are either subsidized or controlled by the above listed companies. The recent consolidation of these major media companies has only tightened their grip, and really this is only to name a a few...

We're told that questioning the Kosher Tax is anti-semitic, now perhaps some of you freemasons would like to explain why you feel so compelled to defend it. Freemasonry and Zionism won't survive the open exchange of information, May truth be known.

posted on Sep, 29 2007 @ 11:33 AM
Still not enough research for you axeman? Alrighty, here's more from this thread so you don't have to strain your eyes reading through the masonic attacks earlier in the thread...

NASA is planning to consult a number of Rabbis on the subject. Besides calculating the directional relationship of Jerusalem to the International Space Station, other issues include keeping kosher food and keeping Shabbat, the Jewish day of rest.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.

American Space Agency NASA is about to begin a series of consultations with rabbis as part of preparations for the stay of Jewish astronauts in its international space station.
NASA is seeking to consult rabbis regarding the necessary arrangements and ways to uphold Torah commandments in space. Among other things, there is a need to determine at every stage in the space flight the position of Jerusalem in relation to the space station, so that astronauts know which was to turn when praying.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.

Even the trucks that haul your food must now be certified Kosher as well...

The rules also apply to the equipment used to transport food ingredients.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.

Hell even insecticides and Organic products are 'having' to be certified Kosher, right down to your wholesome bio-herbicides.
And no, you don't have a choice anymore...

Many food companies that once made both nonkosher and kosher versions of the same foods now make only kosher versions of their products. It is more efficient to manufacture all foods under the most stringent manufacturing guidelines rather than following different production procedures for kosher and nonkosher.
"Most companies now are totally kosher, totally following the kosher rules," said Rick Jasa....
The logos on those mainstream products might easily go unnoticed by the nonkosher consumer...

Trade magazine Kosher Today reported that about $190 billion, or 40 percent, of products sold in U.S. grocery stores in 2005 were kosher certified.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.

The kosher market can be considered as two separate markets: "mainstream and kosher" and "ethnic kosher." "Mainstream and kosher products" are those foods that are kosher-certified but have little relevance or bearing on traditional kosher food ways. These kosher-certified products are as much at home on the shelves of consumers who have no interest in kosher foods as they are on the shelves of those consumers for whom the kosher symbol is important. "Ethnic kosher foods," on the other hand, are products that are "kosher by design"--such items as gefilte fish, matzoh, schav and borscht (both types of soup), and other traditional ethnic Jewish food products. "Ethnic kosher foods," like other ethnic foods, are consumed by anyone interested in those specific flavor profiles and foods.

fake Kosher certificate apparently runs you about five grand on the black market.

Originally posted by twitchy
China is being slowly sucked into the Kosher Scam as well...

The agencies, namely the Orthodox Union (OU), OK Certification, and the Star-K maintain a full-time presence in China, including fully-staffed offices in some cases. They frequently fly in mashgichim (supervisors) from Israel in what one agency called “a necessity given the growing number of companies we certify in a vast geographic area.”
Approximately 90% of the products certified in China are ingredient items. Israel is also a large importer of the ingredients and packaged foods, manufactured under private label. The agencies say that their staff includes local citizens who fully understand the language and culture of the country, “an invaluable tool in the kosher certification process.”

The Chinese infatuation with kosher stems from their increased business with the U.S. food industry, which most often requires a kosher certified ingredient. The ingredient producers in China and elsewhere around the world are increasingly being shut out of the US market unless their products have proper kosher certification.

The Wal-Mart Supercenter in Monticello is the other popular location in the capital of the Catskills for kosher consumers. “All Wal-Mart strives to be is a store of the community, reflecting products that customers in their communities are requesting, and this is illustrated in our kosher food selections in our Supercenters and Neighborhood Markets across the country. You will see different selections offered in different stores based on what the customers in that community are requesting,” said Karen Burk, spokeswoman for Wal-Mart. For instance, the Wal-Mart Supercenter in Monticello offers more than 700 different kosher items (including cholov Yisrael milk and glatt kosher meats) for customers during the summer months when the demand in that community is high.
Wal-Mart alone is estimated at doing more than $3 million in kosher food sales during the summer months.

Sullivan County's only hospital is going far beyond a kosher menu to bridge the cultural gap between its medical staff and Orthodox Jewish patients.

To get ready for the arrival of 200,000 summer residents, many of them Orthodox Jews, Catskill Regional Medical Center has trained its employees and modified its facilities to accommodate Orthodox customs.

For the first time, more than 200 nurses, doctors and department heads have undergone cultural sensitivity training to learn about Orthodox Jewish law.

Many rabbinical supervisors have become more attentive to labeling issues, but the problem seems to occur more often in companies where there is no mashgiach temidi (on-site rabbinical supervisor as opposed to rabbis who periodically visit a plant), which prompted one rabbi to suggest that a mashgiach temidi should be required where kosher and non-kosher products are produced in the same plant. Mislabeling, it appears, accounts for a good percentage of kashrus alerts issued by kashrus agencies, which are also featured on such web sites as and in various kashrus newsletters.

Kosher fruits from Kingsburg Orchards bear a new PLU label featuring the "OU" symbol of the Orthodox Union, the world's largest kosher certifying agency. The Orthodox Union is recognized for enforcing one of the strictest kosher standards on the market today. Meeting that standard required a lengthy process and significant investment from Kingsburg Orchards.

"This certification enables us to connect with the traditions of the Jewish community, which considers the observance of keeping Kosher to be a key way of making a Jewish home 'Jewish,'" said Dan Spain, Vice President of Marketing for Kingsburg Orchards.

"At the same time, millions of other consumers -- regardless of faith -- perceive Kosher food as being healthier and cleaner, giving our Certified Kosher fruits selling power beyond the Jewish community," Spain said.

According to recent research, Kosher certification appears on over 60% of American food products and currently accounts for more than $150 billion in annual sales -- a figure that is rising dramatically.

Jelly Belly jelly beans will be certified kosher by the Orthodox Union...
Buzz around town is about Dunkin Donuts and whether or not the Brooklyn locations are kosher. According to an ad in The Jewish Press print edition only two locations are no longer certified kosher -- the one on Avenue J and East 15th Street and the store on Avenue U and 86th Street (both in Brooklyn). Please be sure to check each individual store for a kashrus certificate before patronizing.

Originally posted by twitchy

Besides using a kosher label on Winn-Dixie brand milk, its private label orange juices, teas and Chek sodas will now display the kosher symbol. Thrifty Maid beverages, Premium fruit drinks and Prestige ice cream flavors are also kosher certified.

Winn-Dixie began its kosher initiative last year when it reached an agreement with a kosher certification agency, and this April opened a new certified kosher deli and bakery in Tamarac. In addition, most stores that have recently undergone remodeling are now stocking an expanded selection of kosher products.

Winn-Dixie Stores Inc. (NASDAQ: WINN) emerged from Chapter 11 bankruptcy in November.

Kosher Vending Machines
Kosher Dairy Prices Soar Around the World

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