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posted on Oct, 26 2004 @ 01:50 AM
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I started a thread the other day in regards to fees that are charged to food companies by a certain religous organization, it was almost immediately struck down as being a "thinly veiled hate thread" by one of the moderators, so I am reposting it and presenting my information from less "inciteful" sources in the hopes that we can discuss it here on ATS. I am not anti-religon whatsoever, nor do I believe in hatred for any group or nationality, religous or otherwise, period. This is not a hate thread, it is a question. The last thread I started on this topic was much more specific and my apologies for my vagueness here but I really would like to debate this topic without somebody jumping out of their chair calling me a "*&^Hater". If this is something we can't discuss on ATS, then why?
Rather than posting a direct link to any one source, which apparently was a no-no, I will simply provide a search link and let you guys do your own homework...
www.google.com...
That said, here is a hypothetical situation for you...
Let's say that your religous doctrine would not allow you to eat cheetos, so you send representatives to various food companies and tell them that you can't eat any cheetos and you want to inspect their facilities to make sure they aren't putting any Cheetos ingredients in with their product FOR A FEE, if they agree to allow this inspection and pay you a fee, you allow them to use a trademarked symbol to tell the consumer that that product has received your organizations blessings for being cheetos free. Now if they don't pay the fee, you threaten to boycott their product very PUBLICLY. Now, in this meeting you also express your conerns that their suppliers might be using cheetos products and for you to carry that symbol, your suppliers also must pay this fee for inspections. Let's say hypothetically of course, that the idea catches on and next thing you know, even companies that make products like bleach and scrub pads or window cleaner which have nothing to do with Cheetos whatsoever come into play and your inspection process turns into a multi-billion dollar industry. Sound fishy? Well, let's say also just for fun, the federal government dissolves the seperation of church and state for your organization and manifests a federally mandated oversight commission to make sure your group is getting paid this fee. Now lets say the idea really catches on, and some other in your group get the same idea and go the same companies saying well your group certified it, but theirs didn't, they have to pay another fee...This raises some questions, if the fee is to make sure that you don't get any cheetos in the food, why would you charge comapnies that make scrub pads or bleach? Why would the federal government subsidize and enforce it when it is a religous institution? Why are you charging a fee to food companies instead of appealing to a market which would cater to that interest like all other special interests? And really the big question here is, who actually pays this fee in the long run? The consumers that don't know anything about cheetos do. Is it really about cheetos, or is it about money?
Lots of money....




posted on Oct, 26 2004 @ 01:52 AM
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Can you please explain the link to your post and Secret Societies?



posted on Oct, 26 2004 @ 02:01 AM
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The link to my post and secret societies? I think so, the reason this is a secret society is because it is as a group virtually invisible to the main stream media, the last NY Times reporter that covered had to move out of town due to death threats and if you call the manufacturers and ask them about it, they aren't "allowed to discuss the specifics". If you want to move it to another category that's cool with me, but I think it probably qualifies as a secret society given that there have been death threats made to the media for covering this story.



posted on Oct, 26 2004 @ 02:09 AM
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Let's say that your religous doctrine would not allow you to eat cheetos, so you send representatives to various food companies and tell them that you can't eat any cheetos and you want to inspect their facilities to make sure they aren't putting any Cheetos ingredients in with their product FOR A FEE, if they agree to allow this inspection and pay you a fee, you allow them to use a trademarked symbol to tell the consumer that that product has received your organizations blessings for being cheetos free.


Why is it worth talking about hypotheticals?

Taken from your link, care to explain your views on this issue?


The bizarre claim by right wing extremists that kosher certification markings on food product labels ("" "K," etc.) cost consumers extra money and represent, in effect, a "kosher tax" to make rabbis rich, is a striking example of the propaganda used by anti-Semites to trick the uninformed into accepting conspiracy charges and stereotypes about Jews.


www.adl.org...



posted on Oct, 26 2004 @ 02:09 AM
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What are you talking about ??

1.) Kosher products are marked as being kosher.

2.) Not all products are kosher.

3.) Only people who eat kosher buy kosher products.

4.) Kosher products can cost more.

5.) If you don't eat kosher, don't buy kosher products.

6.) Food products also fall under other categories, which might sound more familiar to you, all of which carry costs proportional to quality: Grade A, AA, Standard, Choice, Fancy, etc. These labels occur on a wide range of items, from fruit cups to meat, and have nothing to do with Jews.

A little less of the hypothetical situations, and a little more of the facts, please.

Next.

[edit on 26-10-2004 by LTD602]



posted on Oct, 26 2004 @ 02:13 AM
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WOW, WOW, WOW, Twitchy,

You sure are searching for a tree to bark up at. There certainly are plenty of other "Zionist" conspiracies to chase other than that. I was employed as a cook in a Kosher Deli all through the late 60's and dealt with many a Rabbi on Friday afternoon inspections for cleanliness and religious law.
You need to get a cause, but this ain't it.

TUT



posted on Oct, 26 2004 @ 03:07 AM
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Facts... nah, that would be spreading hatred according to one of the mods that deleted my prior post on this subject. So lets post some hypothetical facts... In the last post I was accused of being antisemitic, that is not the case, if it were a baptist group I would be equally upset that the federal government was backing this religous organization, and I would be equally upset that I was paying more for my food than neesecary because of any religous considerations. If it is about keeping 'cheetos' out of their food, why is there kosher toliet bowl cleaner or kosher window cleaner. you are buying one heck of alot more of these products than you think, look through your cupboard or pantry, you'll see what i mean if you know what to look for. In the last post I cited my sources, and like I said that was a no-no cause all thirty some odd of them were of course 'hate' sites, which is absurd but I never got a reply from the moderator that trashed it when I asked him why it was being called a 'hate thread'. Another thing I have noticed is that the only sites that defend this practice I have seen so far have been jewish. I don't know boys, I smell a rat here... take a look at the following clips, all of which are attainable through the link provided in my previous.. If this seems like a hate thread, my apologies in advance, it isn't, it is a question in regards to what i think amounts to a racketeering of major food companies, not just food either, SEJohnson, and many many others as well...

Mod Edit: Large copy and paste... without source. Don't do this.

[edit on 26-10-2004 by MacKiller]



posted on Oct, 26 2004 @ 03:10 AM
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Please provide a link to ALL your quotes and trim them down. people can link to them and read the entire text.

Thanks
FredT



posted on Oct, 26 2004 @ 03:14 AM
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Originally posted by tututkamen
WOW, WOW, WOW, Twitchy,

You sure are searching for a tree to bark up at. There certainly are plenty of other "Zionist" conspiracies to chase other than that. I was employed as a cook in a Kosher Deli all through the late 60's and dealt with many a Rabbi on Friday afternoon inspections for cleanliness and religious law.
You need to get a cause, but this ain't it.

TUT

I don't know man a multi billion dollar, government backed food tax by a religous organization is a pretty healthy scandal IMO. Imagine I went to General Foods Corp and told them I didn't eat cheetos and wanted themt o pay me a fee to inspect their plant, and all their suppliers plants to make sure I wasn't getting any cheetos in my food every year. They would either call security, or they would tell me to get lost. At the very least, given the state backing fo rthis certification process adn the enforcement of the fees involved, it is a violation of church and state, let alone extortion and racketerring. It's a multi-billion dollar institution, and a gallon of milk is four dollars now man.



posted on Oct, 26 2004 @ 03:16 AM
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Originally posted by FredT
Please provide a link to ALL your quotes and trim them down. people can link to them and read the entire text.

Thanks
FredT

Roger that Fred working on it...



posted on Oct, 26 2004 @ 06:04 AM
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There is quite a bit of truth in this allegation against Kosher foods.
I know of a bakery in Sydney that had its Kosher staus removed and it went to the verge of bankruptcy before it was re-instated.
The claim against it revolved around the use of a certain type of olives in the olive bread but the status was revoked from the shop regardless of their offer to remove the offending product from the shelves.
In any case, six months later it was revealed that the olives were Kosher anyway.

On a similar vein is the use of the Halal certification - Islam is much more widely practiced than Judaism and it is not uncommon in many asian countries (for example Singapore) for chains like McDonalds to insist on Halal meat for their hamburgers to access the 30% or so of the population who are Muslim.



posted on Oct, 26 2004 @ 06:52 AM
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After 2000+ years of religious conflict stemming from the same God of Abraham, one would think the people of the Earth would have figured it out by now. We need to go back to Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle and figure out what we are missing. It should be and probably is obvious.

TUT

the pagan



posted on Oct, 26 2004 @ 05:02 PM
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I have already been penalized twice for excessive quoting on this thread, as I stated earlier I am reworking the post but it is a tedious process that i am likely not to have finished until this evening. I have derived these quotes from various sources that I now am retracing through my web history cache, a cache of over two hundred web sites so bear with me. The reason I didn't post my sources originally is because the first post was trashed for being a hate thread due to a couple of the sources I cited. I have found the same information on less 'inciteful' sites but tracing my own web history is quite a task.



posted on Oct, 26 2004 @ 05:22 PM
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Twitchy:

Facts cannot be hypothetical. Your whole argmuent is hypothetical.

Kosher foods are Kosher foods. They are marked. The consumer knowing or not knowing is ephemeral; there are intelligent consumers and downright dumb consumers.

Read my previous post.



posted on Oct, 26 2004 @ 05:27 PM
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Originally posted by LTD602
The consumer knowing or not knowing is ephemeral

LOL yeah paying a fee unknowingly in amounts that food comapnies refuse to disclose is ephemeral... Billions of dollars is hypothetical? In other words...



posted on Oct, 26 2004 @ 05:36 PM
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Originally posted by twitchy

Originally posted by LTD602
The consumer knowing or not knowing is ephemeral

LOL yeah paying a fee unknowingly in amounts that food comapnies refuse to disclose is ephemeral... Billions of dollars is hypothetical? In other words...


Kosher foods are marked as such. So are Grade A, AA, Standard, Choice, and Fancy.

Caveat emptor.

Besides, in all practicality, I'd worry about gas prices way before I'd worry about the price of pickles or bagels.

If you're so passionate about it, you should write your Member of Parliament.



posted on Oct, 26 2004 @ 05:39 PM
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Originally posted by LTD602
Kosher foods are marked as such. So are Grade A, AA, Standard, Choice, and Fancy.

These are marketing terms, not a tax stamp from a religous orgnaization.



posted on Oct, 26 2004 @ 05:44 PM
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The marking terms refer to quality. Kosher foods have alot to do with quality, or a "particular" quality which implies that certain work went into the rendering of the food as Kosher. So, the food is potentially more expensive. Incidentally, Fancy is more expensive than choice.

Were they not marked as Kosher, our Jewish friends would not know if the particular food product is permissible to eat.

If you don't know that Kosher foods are higher quality and could be more expensive, you'd better get someone else to do your shopping.

If part of the money I pay for a Kosher product (which is marked as such) goes to fund Judaica in some way, then so be it. In fact, I would certainly support such a thing. You paid for it. It makes no more difference than if the money went to the manufacturer of the product or to the government.

[edit on 26-10-2004 by LTD602]



posted on Oct, 26 2004 @ 06:02 PM
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Kosher means quality? Let me get this right, food companies are paying a fee to have a religous orgnaization inspect their products to insure quality?
Yeah. Isn't that what the FDA is for? If there such a market for Kosher qualified foods, why is it that the 97% percent of non-jewish folks are carrying the burden of this process? Why is this fee being attached to toliet bowl cleaners? Can you imagine the controversy if food comapnies had to pay a fee to insure that something was acceptable to the Baptist community, and the government provided oversight of a religous group?
Even some jewish publications have stated that the Kosher inspection process is of "profit making concern." We aren't talking about quality assurance here, we are talking about a religous institution and a racketerring scam. Look through your pantry, if you aren't jewish, you sure are making alot of contributions to the jewish cause through your purchase of these products. Seriously, look.. almost every major name brand product is paying these fees, fees that some estimates have in the billions of dollars. Are you implying that if we don't want to pay the higher costs of a jewish approved product we must settle for lesser quality? Vegetarians have comapnies that cater to that interest, but you don't have vegetarian preists charging food comapnies to inspect their facilities. It's far more widespread than you think it is. Call up one of these major food companies and ask them how much they pay in kosher related fees and see how forthcomming they are with that information.



posted on Oct, 26 2004 @ 06:37 PM
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Gosh Darn Twitchy,

I am begining to think you need a shrink. This is one hlel of a useless rant your own. Crap Joe Vialiss has proof that the Mossad blew up the WTC and are going to launch a Sarin attack this week on the U.S. and your whining about Kosher food. Crap, your amusing.


TUT





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