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Is This Better?

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posted on Nov, 18 2004 @ 06:28 AM
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Originally posted by LTD602
As the old saying goes . . . .

"Scratch an Anti-Mason . . . and you'll find an Anti-Semite"

I certainly hope that doesn't apply to you, webvida.

This thread has caused far more harm than good, and it should have been allowed to die.

In any case, carry on. I'm not sure what else can be said about this topic, though, that hasn't already been said.


Well I am not an Anti Mason or An anti Semite; funny how much this "anti" stuff comes up in this thread, anit this, anti that you racist pigs LOL

I only mentioned the mason stuff, becuase I connect this with conspiracy and secret behind the curtain dealings.

Originally posted by LTD602
This thread has caused far more harm than good, and it should have been allowed to die.

In any case, carry on. I'm not sure what else can be said about this topic, though, that hasn't already been said.


Not really, why has it done harm? Is no one to question the Jew Tax? I bet millions of people don't even know what the little "U" means so it is nice that meaning was bought to our attention. You are the one doing harm by running around crying "Anti" - and acutally not much has really been said at all - only a lot of VD by a small few in aid of hijacking this thread. I think this small few has scared most people away from this debate in fear of being labled "anti semite".... but that is only my opinion


Oh, and why did you delete many of your posts from this thread? Just curious...



df1

posted on Nov, 18 2004 @ 10:41 AM
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Originally posted by webvida
Oh, and why did you delete many of your posts from this thread? Just curious...

I have avoided the need to delete my posts. I seldom post at all because it does nothing but give credence to the lunatic fringe that attempt to create issues where no issues exist.

I would imagine that LTD deleted his posts for the same reason.
.



posted on Nov, 18 2004 @ 10:48 AM
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No conspiracy here folks.

Repost.


Originally posted by intrepid
In Canada we have a kosher foods tax exemption worth $500/year. This exemption can be claimed by everyone that uses the products on the list.


I can't see it as being very different in the States.



posted on Jan, 17 2005 @ 05:00 AM
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Well, my wife and I went through my pantry and refridgerator and I found only five items that were NOT bearing the Kosher or Parve certifications. Nearly everything we buy to eat or drink even has paid a Rabbi to bestow his blessings upon. My wife works at a major grocer in our area here and the bulk stuff that comes in to be repackaged is also kosher, even though the final product they repackage doesn't reflect it. This is far more widespread than many realize, especially considering the incredible notion that it is 'taxed' at a multilevel. To make a Kosher box of macaroni, your flour guy pays up, your cheese guy pays up, your macaroni company pays up, your packaging guy pays up, etc. And of course at the consumer level, the butter and milk you put in that box of macaroni pays up, hell the only thing that doesn't pay up is the water, unless of course you live in NYC and they are in the process of paying up to give NY City Kosher water.
As I have said before they make billions of dollars from the US food companies alone, but one thing you might not have considered is that the billions of dolalrs they make isn't even taxable (even though it is government regulated) and they don't even have to disclose how much they make as it is a religous organization. Disgusting to me is the fact that we unwittingly pay to have a rabbi bless our food, and most peiople don't even know it. The apologists for this practice say you can just buy non-kosher products, but good luck finding them in your supermarket.
Take the twitchy challenge, go through your food and look closely at the labels, see if you can find things that aren't kosher certified. I'm intersted to know especially internationally if you guys run into the same thing there as we do here, as it looks to me like zion has a pretty good hold of our food companies and we pay out the arse here in the US to the tune of billions in untaxable, unreported income. The real slap is that most jews don't even keep kosher, just our money...

As to the connections between freemasonry and zionism, I will post a link to a google search here... Look around, you may be suprised as to whom the kosher grail serves.



posted on Jan, 17 2005 @ 06:15 AM
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Originally posted by twitchy
This is far more widespread than many realize, especially considering the incredible notion that it is 'taxed' at a multilevel. To make a Kosher box of macaroni, your flour guy pays up, your cheese guy pays up, your macaroni company pays up, your packaging guy pays up, etc. And of course at the consumer level, the butter and milk you put in that box of macaroni pays up, hell the only thing that doesn't pay up is the water, unless of course you live in NYC and they are in the process of paying up to give NY City Kosher water.




You may be suprised to learn that Halal foodstuffs are exempt from the same taxes.

www.halalsafa.com...

I don't point this out to justify the relaxation of tax law over Kosher products, merely to state that this is across the board and cannot be pigeonholed as a conspiracy specific to one religion.



posted on Jan, 17 2005 @ 06:59 AM
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If you decide to take the twitchy challenge, here's what to look for...
Alot of food companies are still having to pay up even if it is not needed to be certified kosher, they even have to pay for a kosher exemption inspection. These are some of the more common symbols, but alot of smaller jewish outfits are starting to get in the racket, having their own related symbols and requiring their own certification, some companies have to pay kosher fees to several different organizations for the same product! Look for the word Parve as well.


Yes, even hotels are Kosher certified...



Looks like Australia is paying up too...



Even bottled water...
www.ukar.org...


The ONLY defense of theis practice that is offered (mostly by jews and masons) is that to mention it is being Antisemitic. It's a scam folks, they are raking in billions on things which in most cases that don't even require kosher certification. Kosher Bleach? Kosher steel? If you are just now reading this thread for the first time, look through this one. The really creepy thing about it that makes ties this in to the general concept of the word conspiracy is this... Where does all that money go? Billions from the US, billions from Canada, billions from just about every industrialized nation in the world.



posted on Jan, 17 2005 @ 08:05 AM
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Twitchy...

I've read through this entire thread and I must say that you have showed both extreme patience and strength of character to have kept stating as well as your facts as your conclusions and opinions despite several attacks on your person for being anti semitic and multiple attempts to turn this discussion into a "hate debate". All kudos to you!!



P.S You've got my vote.



posted on Jan, 17 2005 @ 08:09 AM
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Originally posted by twitchy
The ONLY defense of theis practice that is offered (mostly by jews and masons) is that to mention it is being Antisemitic. It's a scam folks, they are raking in billions on things which in most cases that don't even require kosher certification



Well firstly, the only defence that people like yourself seem to use is by labelling those who oppose you as Jews or Masons. I reckon there's an irony in there somewhere, don't you?

Secondly, the insinuation that money from Kosher food sales goes to fuel some secret Zionist conspiracy just isn't true.

www.snopes.com...

www.adl.org...

www.boycottwatch.org...

The amazing thing is that the US consumer who promotes this story is really only saying "I am stupid". If he hadn't created the market demand in the first place, this would't be an issue. Nobody forces people to buy Kosher foods and whatever you may believe, there are plenty of products out there that aren't Kosher. The concerned consumer may even participate in a petition against Kosher foods that can be found here:

www....[hate-site-nolink]/archive/t-141546Kosher_Food_Tax_Petition.html

Interestingly though, the tax break might even save the US consumer money -
"The overall result of having a kosher certification on products is lower consumer costs and higher manufacturer profits at the same time because manufacturers are able to lower their costs by spreading the manufacturing costs over a larger number of items on a per-piece basis with increased sales due to the added product demand."

Now, as I've already stated, I don't necessarily agree with tax breaks for any commercial company based on religious grounds. But if the consumer is buying the product and he isn't being ripped off, I don't see a conspiracy. All I see is marketing and business trying to meet consumer demand.



It's a scam folks, they are raking in billions on things which in most cases that don't even require kosher certification. Kosher Bleach?


Just so you know. Some washing up liquids, soaps and and many other non-edible products contain animal fat - in fact you'd probably be suprised at the number of things that we don't eat that do. There are also numerous ways that products may be cross contaminated with non Kosher elements. You wouldn't expect an Orthodox Jew to wash his dinner plate with pork fat would you?
Are you aware of every single ingredient that goes into everything? If you did have to buy products that had to be free of certain ingredients, wouldn't you be thankful for an easily recognisable symbol that informs you that the product is safe for you? Or are the people who inform us about nut allergies in on the conspiracy too? Consumers are notoriously ignorant of the contents of most products that they buy and these labels merely serve to point them in the right direction.
And let's not even mention the fact that some companies apply the Kosher label to their products, even if they are not needed, as this enables them to hit a larger customer base and make more money. They aren't forced to do this, they aren't part of a Jewish conspiracy - they just see it as good business sense.





[edit on 17-1-2005 by Leveller]



posted on Jan, 21 2005 @ 04:53 AM
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Originally posted by Leveller
Well firstly, the only defence that people like yourself seem to use is by labelling those who oppose you as Jews or Masons. I reckon there's an irony in there somewhere, don't you?

Almost as ironic as another mason getting on this thread (i.e. leveller) and telling me that I label those who oppose me as masons.

Originally posted by Leveller
Secondly, the insinuation that money from Kosher food sales goes to fuel some secret Zionist conspiracy just isn't true.
www.snopes.com...
www.adl.org...
www.boycottwatch.org...

Snopes eh? Are you familiar with the term apologist? That whole article on snopes is little more than an apologist's perspective. According to your own source,


Less observant Jews do not bother themselves overly much about the kosherness of everyday items; they avoid the out-and-out no-nos such as pork and shellfish but don't lose much sleep over the animal fat content of their washing-up liquid, nor do they fret that cold cuts might now be resting upon a plate that had months earlier been used to serve cheese....

Ah I see, that's why 3% of the population charges the other 97% fees on their bleach and other items.


Does certification add to the price of a product? Certainly... it's all legitimate business expense...

That my friend, is the whole point of this thread. It's a business, 'of profit making concern' and has little or nothing to do with the jewish tradition of keeping kosher. A government regulated, yet tax free business that imposes religous beliefs of a wealthy minority on the rest of the population. Scopes has hardly debunked this information, they have confirmed it, and claimed it isn't a big deal. I notice they fail to mention the words billions and international. Thanks for linking to the scopes article actually, it prooves my point made earlier that the only defense fo this practice varies from "It doesn't exsist, your a jew hater, to "yeah it exsists, but it isn't a big deal, your a jew hater" finally to, "Yeah so what, you're a jew hater".

adl.org? LOL. Not even going to waste my time with that one...Next.

www.boycottwatch.org
Well, let's see what your final source has to say...


the overall result of having a kosher certification on products is lower consumer costs and higher manufacturer profits at the same time because manufacturers are able to lower their costs by spreading the manufacturing costs over a larger number of items on a per-piece basis with increased sales due to the added product demand.

Added product demand from 3% of the population eh? A 'per-piece' fee reduces consumer and manufacturer's costs? Uh, yeah. Sure thing bubba. Can you say billions? Can you say 3%. This source is perpetuating the same bologna as the Kosher companies. It doesn't a mathematician to figure out that this assertion is complete garbage.


Originally posted by Leveller
The amazing thing is that the US consumer who promotes this story is really only saying "I am stupid". If he hadn't created the market demand in the first place, this would't be an issue. Nobody forces people to buy Kosher foods and whatever you may believe, there are plenty of products out there that aren't Kosher.

Let me see, you're saying that 3% of the population of this country has created such an overwhelming demand for jewish blessed products, that 3/4 of all prepackaged food has to carry this label to be marketable? LOL. No, the amazing thing is, most folks don't have a clue about it, advertising comapnies intentionally remove the Kosher certification from their ads, and yes there are plenty of non-kosher products out there, but I'll be damned if I can find many of them at any of my local supermarkets. You obviously haven't read the thread or checked out my sources, many of which are from jewish organizations themselves. 3/4 of all prepackaged products, billions of dollars in government regulated, non-taxable fees in the name of a religous entity. No, no one is forcing us to buy these products, yet another apologist view of an illegal racketeering scam that cost the american consumer billions of dollars. Imagine if cigarette companies had painted out the surgeon general's warning in their advertisments, fired and threatened members of the media for exposing them, etc. Get real.

Originally posted by Leveller
Now, as I've already stated, I don't necessarily agree with tax breaks for any commercial company based on religious grounds. But if the consumer is buying the product and he isn't being ripped off, I don't see a conspiracy. All I see is marketing and business trying to meet consumer demand.

Ah, that explains why they paint out the kosher labels in their advertisments in mainstream markets, yet highlight them in the same ads marketed to jewish publications. Sigh. If the consumer is buying the product, yet has no idea what the certifications mean, and if the government is imposing the religous beliefs of a minority on them, and the fees are in the billions of untracable, untaxable money which is clearly clandestine in nature with members of the media being threatened or loosing their jobs for publicising it, then hell yes there's a conspiracy.

Originally posted by Leveller
Just so you know. Some washing up liquids, soaps and and many other non-edible products contain animal fat - in fact you'd probably be suprised at the number of things that we don't eat that do. There are also numerous ways that products may be cross contaminated with non Kosher elements. You wouldn't expect an Orthodox Jew to wash his dinner plate with pork fat would you?
Are you aware of every single ingredient that goes into everything? If you did have to buy products that had to be free of certain ingredients, wouldn't you be thankful for an easily recognisable symbol that informs you that the product is safe for you? Or are the people who inform us about nut allergies in on the conspiracy too? Consumers are notoriously ignorant of the contents of most products that they buy and these labels merely serve to point them in the right direction.
And let's not even mention the fact that some companies apply the Kosher label to their products, even if they are not needed, as this enables them to hit a larger customer base and make more money. They aren't forced to do this, they aren't part of a Jewish conspiracy - they just see it as good business sense.

Just so you know, your talking about 3% of the population of this country. The 3% fo this country that owns the federal reserve system, the major media outlets, and apparently has enough political clout due to their influences to impose their religous beliefs on the food companies which feed the other 97% of this country. I would think that if most consumers knew that they were paying higher food costs because 3% of the people, most of which don't even keep kosher by the way, were charging these fees, there would be a ruckus. There needs to be a ruckus, I don't believe in Talmudic traditions, I don't believe in Hebrew traditions, in fact most americans don't, I do howevere believe in the US Constitution, which clearly states that this is an illegal violation of the seperation of church and state. I do believe in truth in advertising as required by the Rule of Law, which Kosher is clearly violating. I believe that most consumers are completely in the dark about Kosher certification, if they knew, I hardly think they would take it idly.

Rant-
Yet another mason on this thread, offers up apologist rhetoric. What a suprise. To keep light for yourselves, and keep others in darkness. Sickening. Think about that for a minute. Once upon a time freemasonry was a noble institution, a truth. No longer, now it is a tool. Freemasonry is the arm and hammer of zionism, I hate to say it, and I know you hate to hear it said, but you and all your ma ha bologna touting, acacia gnawing friends are on the take, and this is a part of it.
Ever wonder where the shriners get their millions for their charities? Giving BACK to the community, well, wake up to a whole new realization here. Again I ask, whom does the 'kosher' grail serve?
I have seen the light, and I didn't need a gavel to get there. I didn't need to pull favors or grant accord. There are no secrets, my masonic friend, only the insidious practice of secrecy. Build your temple, but leave my damned grocery bill out of it.



posted on Jan, 29 2005 @ 11:46 AM
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Twitchy:

I'm with ya man. You have stood up to dogmatic bullying which seems unfortunately all to prevalent on ATS. People so eager to attack us who believe in a conspiracy where the Freemasons are part of it. Almost every defense I have seen against us conspiracy theorists is that we are anti-semetic or usually something in the form of a personal attack on ourselves. Common sense we use, as well as all the stuff that goes on from Assasinations of US Presidents, to All Seeing Eyes and Pyramids stamped on the US 1 Dollar Bill, to demonic signs used by not only the Bush Administration, but many other public figures as well, to Kosher taxes.

www.prisonplanet.com...

We question and COMPLETELY rightfully so. Here is a common sense question, "What the hell does an Egyptian Pyramid and an All Seeing Eye, which has been recognized by Catholic Churches as a sign of Lucifer and of those that control the worlds finances, have ANYTHING to do with American Culture? Nothing I can think of.

Hey, I am Christian, and I want to make sure my food is stamped with a Christian backing so as to ensure that the food I am buying in the supermarket is good enough for me to eat. Also, there are 45 recognized Religions in Canada, and I just spoke to all of their representatives, and they too want companies to pay them a tax to their inspectors so as to ensure the food adheres to their Religious Ideologies.



posted on Jan, 29 2005 @ 01:32 PM
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Originally posted by freudling


We question and COMPLETELY rightfully so. Here is a common sense question, "What the hell does an Egyptian Pyramid and an All Seeing Eye, which has been recognized by Catholic Churches as a sign of Lucifer and of those that control the worlds finances, have ANYTHING to do with American Culture?


Since when has the Catholic Church "recognized" pyramids and eyes as "a sign of Lucifer"? This is news to me, and I'm sure it is also to the Catholic members of ATS.

And I'd say the Great Seal has a great deal to do with American culture, since it was created by our forefathers, who themselves instituted American culture in the first place.

Do you guys actually do anything besides sit around making this stuff up?


[edit on 29-1-2005 by Masonic Light]



posted on Jan, 29 2005 @ 01:37 PM
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Originally posted by Masonic Light
Do you guys actually do anything besides sit around making this stuff up?


ML,

That falls in the category of a rhetorical question, right?



posted on Jan, 29 2005 @ 02:09 PM
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OK, I admit I should not hinge everything on the Masons. From now on I will just use a general term called "Secret Societies."

And I made a mistake, not Catholic, but rather Christian.

Here is a link:

www.exposingsatanism.org...

Click on the bottom to get the Christian Ministry page which amplifies the outlined signs on the above link. Damn, I am tired: I have been teaching too much and have some pretty big black circles under my eyes. Sorry for the mistake!



posted on Jan, 29 2005 @ 02:29 PM
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Originally posted by freudling
OK, I admit I should not hinge everything on the Masons. From now on I will just use a general term called "Secret Societies."

And I made a mistake, not Catholic, but rather Christian.

Here is a link:

www.exposingsatanism.org...

Click on the bottom to get the Christian Ministry page which amplifies the outlined signs on the above link. Damn, I am tired: I have been teaching too much and have some pretty big black circles under my eyes. Sorry for the mistake!


freudling,

I think one point that should be emphasized is that fundamentalist Christians (like the one's sponsoring that page) tend to get carried away (with just about everything) (Nothing against Christians, I happen to be one, but NOT a fundamentalist) Anything that's not entirely Christian (and in line with their "brand" of so-called Christianity) they tend to brand as Satanism. I'm not saying that evil doesn't exist, but not every secret or fraternal organization is bad and a symbol can mean anything someone wants it to.

www.srmason-sj.org...

It's a bit like that picture of Jenna Bush making the "horns" symbol. The sensationalist press started the garbage that she was making a "satanic sign" ...then dredged up pictures of Pres. Bush and others making the same sign. I guess ALL the Satanists gather for Longhorn's games... Point is, these folks (conspiracy guys and fundamentalists in general) are dangerous folks. They're the ones we should be watching.



posted on Jan, 30 2005 @ 03:10 AM
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So you are saying that guy with Putin, the Prime Minister of Russia, was at a Longhorns game? What about the Mafia guy?



posted on Jan, 30 2005 @ 04:26 AM
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Maria Shriver at her wedding to Arnold.

She throws one up(*longhorns* have some hardcore fans), half -disguising it as a wave.

Arnold coincidentally doing Nazi salutes (go to one website with a picture of him from the 70s) as part of his bodybuilding poses, hmmm.

The point is, why do these pictures exist if they are so incriminating. And it all comes down to the Elite being perfectly happy rubbing our noses in it, putting it right in our face, because the images need to be seen by all the initiates.

Better get back to 'making this stuff up'.



posted on Jan, 30 2005 @ 07:13 AM
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Originally posted by freudling
So you are saying that guy with Putin, the Prime Minister of Russia, was at a Longhorns game? What about the Mafia guy?


No, I'm not saying that at all. My previous post was meant to convey it, but I'll paraphrase. Maybe (just Maybe) that so-called "sign" doesn't mean to those individuals what the fundamentalists and conspiracy-theorists SAY it means. Again, see the thread "There's No Sin In Symbols"



posted on Jan, 30 2005 @ 11:34 PM
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So-called sign?


If it can't be disputed what the SIGN (not so-called sign) means to the people that do it (because we don't know their intention, no many how many times they flash it without mentioning it verbally) then maybe we can DISPUTE why the pictures of people flashing this sign are SHOWN SO OFTEN in the media.

Thats what is essentially disturbing for me, is that you can find a picture of many politicians and celebrities doing this hand signal, and they are prominent people. Have I ever flashed this signal for more than an aggregate of 6 seconds in my entire life? No. Would it surprise me if you found a picture of me doing this sign on the Internet? Hell yeah. So why isn't it alarming for public figures???



posted on Jan, 31 2005 @ 03:23 AM
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akilles:

I totally agree. Even you Masons and others who are not right-wing conspiracy theorists, work with us man! I think you guys are fairly sane and particularly intelligent. Perhaps you really love Masonary and perhaps there is something evil going on upstairs, which cannot be confirmed neither denied by us, although there is an overwhelming amount of horrendous things that have happened in the past 100 years that common sense dictates is something more than what we see on the surface and in the media. But we have common sense and we are concerned, "What the hell does that sign have to do with American culture?" and "Why are International figures flashing it". Thus, it is not just restricted to the US, it is an international symbol. We have 2 explanations: either it is demonic or it means fxck you in sign language. We are all ears in terms of other meanings, and NO, it is not a longhorns symbol, since others outside the US are flashing it. Common sense.



posted on Jan, 31 2005 @ 06:25 AM
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Regarding food labels: I'm afraid it means something entirely different and even more unpalatable.

It means - "This makes money. You make money. Everybody's happy."
Basically it means greed.

It's not conspiracy. It's commerce.

[edit on 31-1-2005 by Leveller]




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