Is This Better?

Originally posted by twitchy

Originally posted by The Axeman
The burden of proof is not on me to disprove your assumptions and theories

LOL, the hell it isn't. You came to my thread. I've stated the position, if you disagree with what I've said, then YOU have the burden of Disproving what I've said. You've offered nothing to the contrary, but your opinions and a couple links to sites that offer no more in the way of proof than you did. If we compare research and sources, looks to me like you got wrung out.

OK, you think that just because you post it on this site it means that it is true unless it is debunked by others. By your logic I can say that I have ET living under my bed and because I wrote it here it must be true. You have to disbunk it.... nah nah nah nah nah nah *fingers in ears*

You still haven't given us figures that actually show 'billions' being made by Jews out of this. Yes the kosher food market is big, yes the halal market is big but so is the beer and chewing gum market. People eat lots of food, some of it may have kosher certification on it. Instead of flooding the thread with links to anti-jewish websites (a lot of which don't even work but then when you are just copying them straight from Google you wouldn't know that). Just show me one link to an authoritative body or even one with some kind of provenance that proves this and gives the actual costs to the consumer of buying a certificated product over a non-certificated product.

While you are at it go to www.cra-arc.gc.ca... and type "kosher' into "search this site".

I am starting to think there is some truth in all of this talk about 'point whores' - starting controversial threads and then milking them while the points come in. This is pathetic, this isn't Myspace.





[edit on 3-10-2007 by EJHoover]

Originally posted by EJHoover
You still haven't given us figures that actually show 'billions' being made by Jews out of this.

Oh like hell, show me where I haven't shown it to be in the billions. You've read the whole thread, looked at links and you somehow missed the numbers perhaps? It's a long thread, I know its tough to read all that material but surely you see billion somewhere in it.

Originally posted by EJHoover
People eat lots of food, some of it may have kosher certification on it.

Yep, 3/4 of ALL prepackaged foods in the US have Kosher Certification, that's a hell of alot more than some my friend, and that's an old statistic from an explosive growth market. Hey not just food, the steel industry, plastics, trucks, glutimates.

Originally posted by EJHoover
Instead of flooding the thread with links to anti-jewish websites (a lot of which don't even work but then when you are just copying them straight from Google you wouldn't know that).

Flooding the thread with Anti-jewish sites eh? Yeah, horse crap. Read the thread, look at the information, then tell me what's in it dude. Axeman and the other masons who flooded in here have repeatedly accused me of linking to anti-jewish sites and white supremacy sites, but if one bothers to look, I've quoted everything from the New York Times, To Rabbis, to Mainstream News Outlets, kosher Comapnies themselves, so lay off the Nazi bull#e and read the thread, you may learn something.

Originally posted by EJHoover
Just show me one link to an authoritative body or even one with some kind of provenance that proves this and gives the actual costs to the consumer of buying a certificated product over a non-certificated product.

There aren't any, if you had read the thread you would understand that ad nauseum, they won't release the numbers. But I find it hard to believe the Kosher folks themselves would lie about profiting in the billions, unless the jews are out to get the jews now. Wouldn't surprise me. If you ahven't found the answers in the links I've provided then you've not read a damned thing but what you wanted to read.

I am starting to think there is some truth in all of this talk about 'point whores' - starting controversial threads and then milking them while the points come in. This is pathetic, this isn't Myspace.

Yeah Registered 2007, then come on here and tell me about what I'm doing on the site? Look Rookie, I'm not in it for the points, I'm in it to educate Kosher ignorant folks such as yourself who have been so brainwashed by a pro-jewish bias they think every link that speaks out against he Kosher scam is some kind of nazi plot. What brings you to the thread?

The Chicago Tribune, a notorious Anti-jewish White Supremacy Publication tells us that only 15% of the 3% of the nation's jewish population even keeps kosher traditions, odd that such a low number has to have 3/4 of the countries prepackaged food stuff certified kosher isn't it?

Source
Only about 15 percent of the nation's roughly 5.2 million Jews keep kosher. Yet their buying power, plus the appeal of kosher items to some other consumers, has resulted in a huge market. Kosher certification now appears on 100,000 food products, made by 10,500 companies, worth $225 billion a year, according to Menachem Lubinsky, editor of the trade publication KosherToday.

Gee, hundreds of billions. There's that billions word again.
It doesn't stop there eitehr, now they are focusing on ethical kosher certifications, which of course will be a different fee...

(from above)
The Conservative seal of approval will not be based on traditional kosher requirements, such as separating meat from dairy products, avoiding pork and shellfish, and slaughtering animals with a sharp knife across the throat.

Rather, the Conservative hechsher tzedek, Hebrew for "justice certification," will attest that a particular food was produced at a plant that meets ethical norms in six areas: fair wages and benefits, health and safety, training, corporate transparency, animal welfare and environmental impact.

Pepsi almost lost their certification for their less savory advertising once, odd that making billions isn't enough, they are also using it to promote jewish ethics? That's fine and dandy, but why are WE paying for it?

source
Yossi’s Bakery and Sweet House announces its Kosher Certification, a certification that pertains only to Jews. But, Jews make up a major portion of the business world. So, it’s a thing that is rather critical for any business person to understand.

You betchya.

Kosher Prison... Wonder who foots the bill for that...

Source
Enthusiasm for accommodating religious needs has gained momentum since the creation of a Jewish Enhanced Unit on premises in 2005. Kosher food and pastoral care are part of life in the Jewish unit.

And so on...

Originally posted by twitchy
There aren't any, if you had read the thread you would understand that ad nauseum, they won't release the numbers. But I find it hard to believe the Kosher folks themselves would lie about profiting in the billions, unless the jews are out to get the jews now.

Do you have me on ignore now, or something?

YES, Virginia, the word "billions" appears many times when you google the word "kosher" and dig through the results. Very good.

Nowhere in anything you have posted yet have the "billions" in profits TO THE CERTIFIERS made itself apparent. Yes, the kosher food market is a billion dollar industry. No secret. It's food, man, people gotta eat!

Yes, your precious quote from your rabbi is true; "kosher certification is a profit-making concern" (or something like that) -- could it be that the comment was meant to refer to companies who get kosher certifications to broaden their target markets? Aren't THEY the ones that stand to profit the most? Isn't their main concern profit-making?

"Axe, that sounds ridiculous," you'll say. "Of course he was talking about the Jews' plot to pick all our pockets while we shop for groceries! Are you thick, man?!"

When you post a one or two line quote out of context you can make it about whatever you want if you spin it right. Got any context? No, because you pulled it from community-2.webtv.net... which is OBVIOUSLY an anti-Semite fanatic's site who no doubt believes with all his heart that the Protocols of the Elders of Zion is bible truth.

In effect, unless you can show original sources for those quotes, they're worth about as much as a bucket of... well you get the idea.

Originally posted by EJHoover
While you are at it go to www.cra-arc.gc.ca... and type "kosher' into "search this site".

NICE!

Yes, look, I'll save you some trouble. Don't mean to step on your toes, Intrepid, but I haven't found anything solid on it yet.

Searched: kosher+foods+exemption

Can you show, "beyond a tax record of a doubt," that there is, in fact, a Canadian tax credit strictly for kosher goods?


[edit on 10/3/07 by The Axeman]

Originally posted by twitchy
The Chicago Tribune, a notorious Anti-jewish White Supremacy Publication tells us that only 15% of the 3% of the nation's jewish population even keeps kosher traditions, odd that such a low number has to have 3/4 of the countries prepackaged food stuff certified kosher isn't it?

You just don't get it, do you?

Source
Only about 15 percent of the nation's roughly 5.2 million Jews keep kosher. Yet [the Jews'] buying power, plus the appeal of kosher items to some other consumers, has resulted in a huge market. Kosher certification now appears on 100,000 food products, made by 10,500 companies, [and the market itself is] worth $225 billion a year, according to Menachem Lubinsky, editor of the trade publication KosherToday.

Gee, hundreds of billions. There's that billions word again.

(emphasis and [brackets] mine)

Yup. hundreds of billions. No denying it; but then I never did, did I?

From the same article:
In consumer surveys, less than a quarter of the shoppers who deliberately choose kosher products are observant Jews, Lubinsky said. That statistic is not lost on Conservative rabbis, who acknowledge that their new certification could appeal to both Jews and non-Jews.

Nice of you to leave that tidbit out.

So, contrary to what you would have us believe, the market targets much more than Kosher Jews. Also note that the survey refers to people who DELIBERATELY chose kosher products, indicating that they are not, in fact, ignorant to what the symbols mean; they actually look for them.

It doesn't stop there eitehr, now they are focusing on ethical kosher certifications, which of course will be a different fee...

...that will undoubtedly be offset by increased sales. What are we talking, another one or two salaries or yearly inspection fees per company? Peanuts.

Pepsi almost lost their certification for their less savory advertising once, odd that making billions isn't enough, they are also using it to promote jewish ethics? That's fine and dandy, but why are WE paying for it?

You still haven't shown that "WE" are!

From another of Twitchy's sources
Food baskets make great neutral gifts that anyone can enjoy. But, sending a food basket to a Jewish business person is a hit and miss proposition. Yossi’s Baker and Sweet House takes the guessing out of the game. Jews can only accept foods that are Kosher and that means by a reliable organization qualified to do the certification. Certification of Kosher foods has to follow the strict guidelines of the Jewish Code as outlined in the Torah, the Jewish doctrine.

Sounds horrible. Another American finding an angle to make his business grow (that is actually a pretty clever idea), and you say it's a conspiracy.

Kosher Prison... Wonder who foots the bill for that...

Probably the same folks who pay for prison inmates to earn college degrees, or get cable TV, or eat at all, or have electricity, or religious and other reading materials. Hell, who foots the bill for the religious considerations in this prison for faiths other than Judaism?

Again, from one of Twitchy's articles
As extensive as the program has become, it does not yet compare to other official faith based programs with separate dorm space.

The taxpayers pay for all of it, regardless of faith. Even Jewish ones.

Would you be pissed if your tax dollar went to buying a Torah for the Prison library? Or copies of the Quran? Or Bibles? Or to have special meals for vegans or vegetarians or Muslims? Or for Christian ministers and other religious teachers come to the prison? Do you think those people don't get paid? Do you think "seperate dorm space" for other, "official" faith based programs costs money? Of course it does! Who foots the bill for that?

"WE" do. And that, unlike your claim, can be verified and empirically shown to be true.

It should be noted, however, that according to the article, the rabbis that come for these services do so on a volunteer basis, on their own time. Doesn't cost the taxpayer anything.

Should we just abolish all religion and religious practices, services, and considerations from prisons altogether?

According to that article, this is already happening (removal of religious books from prison libraries), so that should make you happy, eh? Can't have people observing their religion on YOUR dime...

Prisoners don't have a right to practice their religion, do they?

[edit on 10/3/07 by The Axeman]

On and on and on and on and on and on, you still can't provide anything to the contrary of billions in profit.
If it's about marketing kosher to Non Jews, axe, why did the New York Times say that the Kosher Labels are printed unobtrusively to go unnoticed by christians?
Why are the Kosher Labels painted out of mainstream advertisments, yet the SAME ADS in Jewish Publications are emphasised?
That Rabbi's name was Harvey Sentor's by the way, profit was the word he used. One Kosher company, the Orthodox Union makes over 200 million a year alone and it's just one of almopst 300 individual Kosher certification companies, another Manischewitz, in 1990 alone made 124 million dollars on largely unwitting consumers. These figures come from "Kosher Today", obivously another nazi white supremacist anti-jewish site.
Albuquerque Tribune in 2002 says the COST Kosher Certification is about Six Billion, that's Six Billion in Profit, not market, not potential, that's what they stick in their pockets. Debunk that.
Since you can't seem to read the links and understand the size of the scam, maybe a video with pictures and everything will help you...
Easy To Understand Video
Another little quote that apologists and hobnobbers offer to the debate that...
“a representative of the Heinz Company said that the per item cost is 'so small we can't even calculate it,' and that such labeling actually makes products less costly by increasing the market for them.” As you will see in the video linked above, if you even watch it, funny but, Heinz then turned around and tried to get trid of Kosher certification on some of their products in Canada as the Kosher certification was cost prohibitive. Sounds like somebody was singing a song.

Edit: Again, if Jews need special food, why do we pay for it? It's an easy enough question, can you answer that without trying to hooey around it by saying it isn't passed on the consumer, which I've already shown that it is, or trying to say the costs are miniscule when they are in the Billions, that according to the Albuquerque Tribune (another white supremacist anti-jewish publication, obviously)? Why is the Federal Government Regulating a Religous organization?
"1990 Congressman Stephen J. Solarz (D-N.Y) introduces the first ever Federal Kosher Consumer bill in the U.S. House of Representatives"
"New York's kosher fraud law enacted in 1915"

New York Times
STATE CRACKS DOWN ON KOSHER CHEATS
LEAD: THE state's Division of Consumer Affairs is sending a clear message to kosher food cheaters that they face stiff penalties.

THE state's Division of Consumer Affairs is sending a clear message to kosher food cheaters that they face stiff penalties.

In a recent action, the Tammy Brook Country Club in Cresskill was fined a record $10,000 for serving nonkosher foods as kosher.

The fine, imposed after an investigation by the division's Kosher Enforcement Bureau, was the largest ever levied by the state for noncompliance with kosher regulations. It stemmed from revised rules that went into effect last November and broadened the bureau's authority.

Debunk that can you? in fact can you provide ANYTHING to the contrary or are you just all hat and no cattle? You sure talk alot, but you're not saying anything.

[edit on 3-10-2007 by twitchy]

[edit on 3-10-2007 by twitchy]

Here's another question for you axeman, "Ethnic Kosher Food Sales are $2 billion" yet mainstream Kosher Food Sales are in the Hundreds of Billions. Why do you suppose that is? Do you know the difference between Ethnic Kosher and Mainstream kosher?
You will if you read the Thread.
Can you Say Racketeering? I know it's a big word.

Edit:
Axeman debunks this with this...

Also note that the survey refers to people who DELIBERATELY chose kosher products

Yeah yeah, and Choosey Moms Choose GIF. They deliberately seek GIF Peanut Butter out, according to GIF that is. That's called advertising Axeman, you really think Choosey Mom's seek out GIF peanut Butter, or do you think maybe GIF just say they do?

[edit on 3-10-2007 by twitchy]

Gotta give you points for tenacity Twitchy.
Saw a snippet on an Aussie satire TV show last night....they mentioned Kosher mobiles phones are now available (Without email, net access etc) and that calls to these phones will be cheaper. Anyone heard of it?

troppo_ozstyle, I appreciate your reply, I think alot of folks are afraid to even read this thread the first time they see the word jew in it. There's a reason for that of course, the paranoia generated by accusations of anti-semitism stems from a deep rooted semitophilia in American Culture that starts in Elementary School. When I was in Kintergarten, we had a Jewish Lady come to our school and talk for hours about how special the Jewish people were. A few years later they start in on the Holocaust and Israel revisionism, my daughter just yesterday learned how to sing a song in hebrew and they have been teaching them about the holocaust literally for weeks now. I plan to sit down with my kids at some point here soon and debrief them.
Mainstream Kosher is in the hundreds of billions, the only justification for that incredible scam is Talmudic. The only defense for the scam is as you see here, to turn it into an arguement or an accusation. Note the Freemasons earlier in the thread going so far as to post holocaust pictures here... How else do you reasonably defend less than 3% of the population religously taxing the other 97%?
I find it sickeningly Ironic that they claim non-jews actually seek out mainstream Kosher products, they know good and damned well if the Mainstream ever figured it out, there would be a storm of pissed of consumers whose grocery bills have risen exponentially over the last decade.

Edit:
Yup kosher Phones, you can even get Kosher Computers, Kosher Internet Service Providers, funny I've read the Bible, and in the Torah I just don't recall seeing anything about God Commanding Mobile Phones be fit for jews. Or Bleach, or Steel, or Plastic Wrap, or Trucks, or anything else for that matter except for meat and dairy products.

[edit on 3-10-2007 by twitchy]

Is the Florida State University Law Review non-biased enough for you?

In most cases, the food manufacturer initiates the supervision and certification process.

Sometimes, the desire for kosher certification is the response to direct appeals from consumers. In other instances, the manufacturer of a vertically integrated food product will approach another one lower on the food chain, so to speak, since it cannot gain certification unless the earlier manufacturer does as well. Kosher certification proves profitable for many manufacturers because the increased sales offset any costs associated with the certification process.

On occasion, a certifier may initiate contact; the OU and many others, however, do not solicit clients.

How about the government of Alberta, Canada? Still too biased?

Although Canada’s kosher retail food sector is small in comparison to mainstream, it is dynamic
and growing. In 2001, total Canadian packaged kosher food sales were estimated to have a retail
market value of $575 million.
Of Canadian consumers who purchase kosher products, it is estimated that approximately:
• 45 per cent ($258.7 million) are Jewish
• 25 per cent ($143.8 million) believe kosher is safer or better,
• 20 per cent ($115 million) are Muslims and
• 10 per percent ($57.5 million) buy for philosophical (vegetarian), health (lactose
intolerant) or religious (Jehovah’s Witness, Seventh Day Adventist) reasons. (Faye
Clark Marketing & Communications, Inc., 2002)

Another unbiased source says this:

Competition between different agencies has created different charging schemes and lower fees for certification. Today the cost of kosher certification usually amounts to fractions of a cent per item.

From an Islamic site; I'd say that is unbiased enough...

The price of certification
There is no set price for Kosher certification. Rabbi Elefant says the OU's prices for Kosher certification are based on cost.
The first thing the OU determines is how much it will cost to set up their program in a company that has applied for Kosher certification.
"If you're facilities are in remote areas, you want an agency that can get there and administer the program. Cost is a consideration," explains the rabbi.
In the OU's case, the money generated from certification goes back into the nonprofit organization.

How about IFI Magazine? Are they too biased?

The industry is pretty much unanimous, however, on whether the effort and expense of Halal and Kosher certification are worthwhile. For Brenner, it’s a cost that has to be borne by the business. “Yes,” he says, “it’s a costly process which does not necessarily command a higher price from our customers. In effect, certification is expected of us.” Cohen says, “Since Kosher products cost more to produce, their price should be higher,” he says. “However, we don’t charge more for them: it is a part of the service for regular Kosher supervision. For Passover, it is appropriate to charge a premium rate, since the costs involved are higher."

Inevitably, much depends on the demands of the customer, a point succinctly made by Sam Sylvetsky, vice president of sales at Fortitech. “Relatively speaking, it’s not expensive he says. “It should be looked on as an investment, a positive business decision that will ultimately drive sales and increase your customer base. It’s worthwhile. Ultimately, certified products drive greater profit because they open up a larger market.”

This one could be deemed biased, I suppose, but it seems in line with the others.

What does all this cost?
The cost is usually minimal. For non-profit agencies, the cost typically depends on the amount of
onsite work required. For “profit” agencies a typical charge might be a annual fee plus a percentage
based on gross sales. There is usually no increase in the price of the product due to its kosher
certification, because that cost is generally met by the increased sales of that product.

HAHA! Funny: www.petitiononline.com...

You'll like this, twitchy. A petition to abolish kosher certifications, with a WHOPPING 2,738 signatures to date! That's something like 1 in 110,000! Watch out, Star-K!!!



Here's another neutral source:

Cost: "The cost of the program varies for each company and depends on the administrative aspects involved in certifying the product," says Pat Herskovitz, executive vice president for Star-K. "There has to be a paper trail and sometimes a visual trail to ensure a product is kosher." Because the cost of participation varies, so does the cost to customers.

Makes sense to me. Remember that Star-K is a not-for-profit organization.

I think that is enough for now; I think I have reasonably shown not only that the cost of certification is low in comparison with the increase in sales due to certification. I have also shown that at least two of the major kosher certification providers are not-for-profit organizations, which kind of puts a few holes in your "billions in profits to the certifiers" position.

Face it. You aren't paying for the kosher certification unless you go to a kosher butcher shop or buy premium kosher goods, which you obviously wouldn't. The items with the kosher stamps at Wal-Mart do not have any kind of price increase associated with their kosher certified status.

Again, and this time I'm not just SAYING it: The cost of kosher certifications is absorbed by the certified companies and IS NOT passed on in any way to the unsuspecting consumer.

Unless you can come up with something CREDIBLE that EXPLICITLY states otherwise, I think your argument just crumbled before your eyes.

Basicly your arguement has deteriorated to simply getting the last word in huh axe? I don't see anything that debunks Billions, I don't see any proof that Non jews seek out kosher items, yeah you found a couple links that sing the praises of Kosher Certification. Do you have anything that isn't completely speculative?

As to the rest of you guys who aren't Hobnobbing Freemasons, take the twitchy challenge, see if you can go to your local supermarket and buy your normal fare without purchasing something that has been certified by jews to be fit for them to consume. It's impossible unless you eat potted meat, pork chops and potato chips exclusively. Your dishsoap, your laundry detergents, bleach, the very trucks that haul those groceries around, all of it is fit for jews and you pay billions extra to be sure of that.
Now can you imagine the public outrage if there was a little circle B for Baptists on all your food? Or a little C for catholic? Or H for hobnoobers?Why would it be ok for Jews to pull this scam, but not say, melungeons, or flatfooters? Can you imagine the response I would get fromt he food comapnies if I were to show up there wanting them to pay me 50 grand a year to come in and make sure their product was fit for a mullet to eat?

Axeman, and the rest of the freemasons that have come to this thread to defend their free rides and meal tickets they get in the service of Zion, have yet to provide anything but semitophillic praise of kosher certification. Until you guys provide some proof to the contrary, you have nothing but your own ma ha bologna bias to show for it. Freemasonry is on the way out, it cannot survive an open and free exchange of information. What we see here is the wriggling of clasping fingers which are desperately trying to keep the wool pulled over peoples eyes.
Wake up people, this is what Freemasonry is all about. Making sure the Talmudic traditions of keeping you ignorant and broke, so that those in power can remain in power. Learn to read between the lions.

Originally posted by The Axeman
Again, and this time I'm not just SAYING it: The cost of kosher certifications is absorbed by the certified companies and IS NOT passed on in any way to the unsuspecting consumer.

Unless you can come up with something CREDIBLE that EXPLICITLY states otherwise, I think your argument just crumbled before your eyes.

Like hell. I've already shown that it is passed on the consumer, says who? The Food Companies, you have read the thread haven't you? As to the profits being absorbed back into the Non profit certification companies, well that's just what Jim and Tammy Faye Baker tried to hand people too wasn't it? How did that turn out for them?
Billions, let me say it again so you will be sure to understand, Billions. 97% of the population. 97% of this country doesn't give a rat's arse about keeping kosher, yet they pay billions to assure they eat food fit for jews? Can you say billions? Can you say scam? Can you say Seperation of Church and State?
Get real axeman.

Originally posted by twitchy
Do you have anything that isn't completely speculative?

Sure, I've presented plenty, unlike yourself. You're entire argument is based on speculation.

You speculate that the Jews make billions but I haven't seen a damn thing to show it yet.

Billions in total sales, yes, but where is the proof that the certifiers are making billions from performing the certifications?

*crickets*

Originally posted by twitchy
On and on and on and on and on and on, you still can't provide anything to the contrary of billions in profit.
If it's about marketing kosher to Non Jews, axe, why did the New York Times say that the Kosher Labels are printed unobtrusively to go unnoticed by christians?

As far as I'm concerned, you haven't shown that they did. Just because the idiot that maintains community-2.webtv.net... says they did doesn't mean diddly squat to me. Like I said, show me the article without the jew-hater wrapping, then we can talk about it.

Why are the Kosher Labels painted out of mainstream advertisments, yet the SAME ADS in Jewish Publications are emphasised?

Target audience? People who want kosher know what to look for. If you don't care if it's kosher or not, why bother advertising it as such? I know I know - to get your panties in a bunch, that's why.

One Kosher company, the Orthodox Union makes over 200 million a year alone and it's just one of almopst 300 individual Kosher certification companies, another Manischewitz, in 1990 alone made 124 million dollars on largely unwitting consumers.

Wow, you can name your links to make it look like they say something they don't! What a neat trick!

Twitchy has tried to mislead the readers by using apparently arbitrary numbers within his link to make it look like it says what he wants it to say. Too bad for him I actually look at links...

1993: New figures show the dramatic growth of kosher foods: Ethnic Kosher Food Sales are $2 billion. 1.75 million of the 6 million customers for kosher foods are Jewish, the rest are Muslims, Seventh-day Adventists and others who consider kosher food healthier.

Well there's where the $2 billion came from... I wonder if we can find reference to $124 million?

Bingo!

1999: Manischewitz head Richard Bernstein, who acquired the company for $124 million last year, outlines company's plans for mainstream consumers and targets 40% growth.

Nice try though.

These figures come from "Kosher Today", obivously another nazi white supremacist anti-jewish site.

The numbers might have come from that link, but my 8 year old daughter apparently has better reading comprehension than you.

Albuquerque Tribune in 2002 says the COST Kosher Certification is about Six Billion, that's Six Billion in Profit, not market, not potential, that's what they stick in their pockets. Debunk that.

Source? So far I got nothin'.

Just because you say so, doesn't make it true. Debunked. Next!

Since you can't seem to read the links and understand the size of the scam, maybe a video with pictures and everything will help you...
Easy To Understand Video

That uses the same pathetic anti-Semite references as you. serbiandefenseleague.com... is CERTAINLY unbiased...

Another little quote that apologists and hobnobbers offer to the debate that...
“a representative of the Heinz Company said that the per item cost is 'so small we can't even calculate it,' and that such labeling actually makes products less costly by increasing the market for them.” As you will see in the video linked above, if you even watch it, funny but, Heinz then turned around and tried to get trid of Kosher certification on some of their products in Canada as the Kosher certification was cost prohibitive. Sounds like somebody was singing a song.

Looks like Heinz of Toronto (that's the one Twitchy is referring to) is still kosher. Try again.

Edit: Again, if Jews need special food, why do we pay for it?

We don't.

It's an easy enough question, can you answer that without trying to hooey around it by saying it isn't passed on the consumer, which I've already shown that it is

You have done no such thing.

...or trying to say the costs are miniscule when they are in the Billions, that according to the Albuquerque Tribune (another white supremacist anti-jewish publication, obviously)?

That you have shown no verifiable source for. Am I supposed to take your word for it? Hold on -- ROFLMFAO

Why is the Federal Government Regulating a Religous organization?

The article answers your question for you: To keep people from ripping people off by selling them products under the pretense they are kosher when in fact they are not. It's called Fraud, and yes, people (even Jews) should be protected from it by their governments.

Debunk that can you?

What's to debunk? There's legislation in place to protect people from fraud. Nothing evil or nefarious about that.

in fact can you provide ANYTHING to the contrary or are you just all hat and no cattle? You sure talk alot, but you're not saying anything.

MMMMMMMMOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO...

And you say that I'm the one not reading the links or posts! HAHAHAHA! I have provided more than enough sources to back up what I say and you keep repeating yourself like some kind of stoned parrot.

Originally posted by twitchy
Here's another question for you axeman, "Ethnic Kosher Food Sales are $2 billion" yet mainstream Kosher Food Sales are in the Hundreds of Billions. Why do you suppose that is?

Maybe because the $2 billion figure is from almost 15 years ago?

Twitchy learns how mumbers change after 15 years

1993 ConAgra acquires Hebrew National Foods . Sara Lee acquires Bessin Corporation (Best Kosher Sausage). New figures show the dramatic growth of kosher foods: Ethnic Kosher Food Sales are $2 billion.

Ten years later...

Consumers spent approximately $165 billion for kosher products in 2003, according to data compiled by Integrated Marketing Communications. In comparison, they spent $250 million on kosher products 25 years earlier.

Get with the program. Get some neutral sources for your info, that are VERIFIABLE, and we can continue.

Until then, I think you've had your ass handed to you on a kosher platter. It's over dude. Face it.

Case closed. Axe out.

Originally posted by The Axeman
Case closed. Axe out.

Ok well for the second time, bye bye now.

Originally posted by twitchy
Ok well for the second time, bye bye now.

Hahaha that's EXACTLY what I thought...

Your argument is hereby debunked. If that's all you have to say after my recent posts, I'll take that as your concession.

It's been fun, see you around. Have a drink on me.

Originally posted by The Axeman
It's been fun, see you around. Have a drink on me.

Ok, third time, bye bye now.

Source
French ingredients firm Solabia recently introduced continuous kosher production of its peptones and hydrolysates at its plant in Beauvais, France, in order to meet demand quickly and help reduce costs.

Peptones - enzymatic digests of plant of animal protein - are used by the agri-food industries for the production of starter cultures or probiotics for dairy or food.

Funny, I've read the bible inside and out, especially the Torah, and I don't recall god ever saying that peptones and hydrolysates needed to be Kosher.
Or non-edible Chemicals and pharmaceuticals either for that matter...

Source
IOL Chemicals receives "Kosher Certificate"
IOL Chemicals & Pharmaceuticals Ltd has announced that the Company has received "Kosher Certificate" from "Kosher Inspection Services" India confirming that the Company's products i.e. Ibuprofen, Acetic Acid, Ethyl Acetate & Acetic Anhydride do not contain any prohibitory or Non-kosher ingredient / chemical / raw materials and are manufactured / processed only from Kosher Chemicals & Acids. No animal fats or meat bons are used in the processing of the above products.

Source
In the recent case of Commack Self-Serv. v. Weiss, the United States Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit assessed the constitutionality of New York's Kosher Fraud Statutes. It held that these statutes violate the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution - the provision some know as the separation of church and state.

The ruling has upset a number of Orthodox Jewish groups, who say that the statutes are essential to protecting the practice of Judaism from fraudulent conveyors of prohibited food products. The Court of Appeals, however, decided the case correctly. Its decision properly takes New York State out of the business of giving official recognition to one among a plurality of approaches to being an observant Jew in the 21st Century.

The Meaning(s) of "Kosher": How New York Law Chooses Only One

For observant Jews, the word "Kosher" refers to food that they may eat without violating Jewish law. The New York Kosher Fraud Statutes define the word "Kosher" - when vendors use it to label food products - to mean food that has been "prepared in accordance with the Orthodox Hebrew religious requirements." (emphasis added).

To ensure compliance with the labeling requirement, the State's Department of Agriculture and Markets includes the "Kosher Law Enforcement Division" ("the Division"). The Division inspects the facilities of vendors claiming to produce Kosher food and evaluates their conformity to Orthodox Jewish law.

The Second Circuit found that the laws in question "excessively entangle government and religion" in violation of establishment clause precedents by, among other things, taking sides in a religious dispute (between the Orthodox and others) on the interpretation of Jewish dietary laws.

I'm guessing that Freemasons here will disagree with the United States Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit, however it's pretty damned clear that Kosher legislation is a violation of one of our most basic democratic principles.

(source from above)
If food products labeled "Kosher" in the supermarket must conform to Orthodox standards, then alternative approaches are thereby delegitimized. Through the Division, the government of New York State thus becomes a partner with Orthodox Judaism in spreading the message that the only valid Jewish observance is Orthodox.

The audience for this message - also the primary relevant audience for the unmodified "Kosher" label on food products - is thus the secular Jew. By calling an alternative interpretation of Jewish law "fraud" under New York statutes, the government of the State places its imprimatur on one approach to religious doctrine. Orthodox Judaism thereby becomes the official Jewish Church of New York State.

Edit:
"Kosher Law Enforcement Division" under the auspices of the NY State's Department of Agriculture ... Kosher, not just your grocery bill anymore... tax dollars funding state enforcement of Religous Law, a minority religon, most of which don't even observe Kosher practices (some estimate only 15%). 3% of the US population est. 300,000,000, 15% of which are the only ones concerned about Kosher Foods. If my math's right, 1 million 350 thousand people that observe kosher diets, and these 1.3 million people create a 300 billion dollar market making it nessecary to certify 3/4ths of all prepackaged food stuffs, steel industry, chemicals and phamaceuticals, cleaning products, plastics, transportation vehicles, stamps, and holy god only knows what else falls under the obscure deuteronomy jewish meat laws?
Billions, in state enforced, undisclosed, tax free profit.

[edit on 22-10-2007 by twitchy]

Even the White House, at your expense, bends to the will of Kosher Certification... Imagine the public outcry if it were any other religon shutting down the White House Kitchen.

Source
At the White House, the culinary staff strives to make international dignitaries feel at home. That means any meat served to Muslim guests is prepared using halal techniques. Twice during Scheib's tenure, the entire White House kitchen was shut down and certified kosher to accommodate Jewish guests.

"It involved burning off the kitchen, applying flame to open surfaces ... and using pots and pans that had never been used for nonkosher dishes. It's a fairly daunting proposition," Scheib said. "We did it all under rabbinical supervision."

Having your individual ingredients certified isn't enough, that's why it's called a multi-level taxation... If you made Macaroni for instance, not only would your final product have to be certified, but the guy who makes the cheese sauce, the guy who makes the noodles, the guy who makes the packaging, and more recently, the trucks they get hauled on and the containers they are shipped in, the ink that the box is printed with, all of these require a seperate certification in order for 3/4ths of all the prepackaged foods in this country to be fit for the few Jewish people that do keep Kosher here in the US. No wonder their profits are in the billions.

Source
The complaint alleges that the OU mark appeared on at least four Wilder products and that Wilder forged a “letter of certification” saying that the Orthodox Union had certified its products, allowing it to use the symbol.

“The whole thing is a huge misunderstanding,” said Danny Christofano, executive vice president of Wilder.

He said the company’s raw materials are certified kosher, most of them by the Orthodox Union, and that some of Wilder’s own products are certified by a smaller supervision agency, EarthKosher. Wilder put the OU symbol on some of its products by mistake because it did not understand “that we had to have permission” from the Orthodox Union to use the mark even if its suppliers’ products are kosher, Christofano said.

He said that after the Orthodox Union contacted Wilder about the problem, the company asked if the certification agency would agree to inspect its facilities and certify its products as kosher, but “they refused us.”

Yet another independent verifiable source which claims the numbers are in the billions...
In the US market alone, consumers spend approximately $165b a year on kosher products.

As I said earlier in the thread, the only real defense of this practice is to turn it into anti-semitism. Other people are starting to catch on to this tactic though...

Source
BERLIN – A German court of appeals in Frankfurt earlier this month affirmed the claim of prominent German Jewish journalist Henryk M. Broder that Jewish self-hatred and Jewish anti-Semitism indeed exist.

It was the first legal verdict in the history of the German judiciary in which a court recognized the phenomenon of Jews relying on anti-Semitic and anti-Zionist statements and material to rage against Jews and Israel.

And people are starting to ask tough questions...

Source
He said the chassidim are “powerful, stubborn and pugnacious,” and are receiving “special privileges” from the borough’s elected officials. The administration and police, he charged, are turning a blind eye to infractions by chassidim, or cancelling notices....
Lacerte, who has lived in Outremont since 1985, also alleged that people who complain about the chassidim have been threatened, harassed or sometimes been the victims of vandalism. For that reason, he asked that the names of the petition’s signatories not be made public....
The commissioners asked, among other things, about kashrut supervision. “Taylor asked if it was true that the Jewish community is forcing food companies to change their formulas and therefore raising prices,” Werzberger said.

Kosher Internet?
Kosher Clothing

St. Louis Business Journal
Wednesday, October 24, 2007
St. Louis-based The Doe Run Co. received kosher approval for its sodium sulfate, a salt commonly used in the manufacturing of starch, which it extracts from the recycling of lead-acid batteries, the company said Tuesday.
"Though none of the sodium sulfate we produce is contained in food, it is used in making an industrial, corn-based starch that goes into papermaking or cardboard production," Lou Magdits, Doe Run's director of raw materials, said in a statement.
Doe Run's sodium sulfate is also used in the manufacturing of other products such as glass, powdered laundry detergent and carpet freshening products.

Where in the Torah does God mandate that Sodium Sulfate needs to be kosher, it isn't even consumed, but then neither is bleach, steel, plastic, or any number of products that are subject to this racket. Odd considering that...

Source
Kosher and Halal at a Glance
By The Associated Press – Nov 22, 2007

Judaism and Islam have similar rules about the proper ways to slaughter meat and prepare food, but there are significant differences.

The following foods are prohibited under kashrut, Jewish dietary laws, commonly known as kosher:

_Meat from animals that don't have cloven hooves and don't chew their cud (pigs, camels, rabbits).

_Sea creatures that do not have both fins and scales (lobsters, crabs, clams).

_Birds of prey or scavengers.

_Rodents, reptiles, amphibians and insects.

Other major restrictions:

_All blood must be drained or broiled out of meat.

_Meat and dairy must not be eaten together. (Fish and dairy together are permissible, such as lox with cream cheese.)

_Utensils must also be kosher, and a utensil retains the qualities of a food that's cooked in it or served from. In other words, a pan used for chicken soup can only then used for meat dishes, and cannot be used for dairy.

I did find one common consumable that wasn't Kosher however...
marijuana is not kosher