Let's put This To Bed. The Five Worst Shootings Ever Were Not Done By Americans

Originally posted by thedigirati
did any laws prevent the bombing of London?? yes or no?

Yes, laws prevented some bombings: news.bbc.co.uk...

if no then what makes you think laws against guns will be any different???

Experience and logic? The UK has so few gun murders they make national news most of the time. We have less police shootings, unarmed police and in general less violence. Not entirely caused by guns of course but the reduction in arms means that we are remarkably safe in comparison.

No law in the world will stop crazy things happening with crazy people..

How about we make it harder for them to have easy access to guns?

However, if you feel that your safety trumps MY personal freedoms, I have a serious problem with that..

I don't think you should be allowed to own chemical weapons. That trumps your personal freedoms, do you have a problem with that?

Originally posted by Xtrozero
It's all about maintaining leverage and your shotgun has limited leverage and distance.

Well I kind of understand firefights with my 28 years of military back ground and about 2 years of it in country of Iraq and Afghanistan. 500 meter shots are easy to do, so I'm not talking toe to toe shotgun fighting, in that case I agree with you.

If you're being shot at from 500 metres. No weapons are going to protect you. The situation you're describing is one of isolated armed communities that occasionally face raiders. If you have indeed spent time in Afghanistan you know what a bad situation that is.

A guy coming into your house to steal your TV is not a SHTF scenario BTW and a shotgun is most appropriate in that situation. I guess the main point here is really about what level of situation are either of us are preparing for.

My point is that you'd never want to be in the situation you're preparing for and that it is a self reinforcing scenario. Without the widespread armaments there would be no need for the guns you are clinging too. Why not make a safer society instead?

No it is more of a fact... Europe is not very well defended or could maintain a war anymore than they did in WWII against a much smaller country than China. 90% of the ISAF soldiers in Afghanistan might as well be clerks, so I really would not put my trust in their ability to hold back any kind of invasion. But that is Europe, you guys are kind of screwed either way if it does happen.

You also need to really get over this arrogance you have. American forces are by no means exceptional. Your war record is not particularly pretty.

reply to post by Kryties


poor form, a few posts back you did the very same thing,( and even tried to put words in my mouth that I did not say) and an assault rifle is something the military has, you cannot get them as a civilian, you say I am twisting your words, they are your words not mine, I never twisted anything.

If you cannot write clearly what you actually mean it is not my fault.

An assault rifle is like an M4 or M16, what is "claimed" to be an assault rifle for civilians has more to do with cosmetics than the actual weapon it's self ( it has more to do with how it looks)

reply to post by DarthMuerte


Awesome, you have proven guns are a big part of the problem and cause more death then say a knife in the same scenario.

The rest really doesn't matter, children are dead and will continue to be in danger as long as you allow guns to be a prevalence in your society.

Originally posted by exponent

I don't think you should be allowed to own chemical weapons. That trumps your personal freedoms, do you have a problem with that?

I don't see in OUR constitution anywhere where is says I have the right to bare chemical weapons, so how would that be a right you are trying to take away? logic fail

now if you said I have no right to bare arms, or to vote or to walk down the street without having an ID, yeah I would have a problem with that

reply to post by thedigirati


Dude our news here in Australia has been calling the AR-15 and ASSAULT rifle and comparing it to M4's and M16 except that the rapid fire capability has been removed from the civilian version. I am simply copying what they are saying.

Originally posted by Kryties
reply to post by Xtrozero

 

I don't really care mate, all I can hear is chest beating and chants of "America is the Greatest".

I guess the point is Europe's population feel that their Government can protect and take care of them under all situations, and many in America do not feel the same way about our own Government doing the same. I'm not going to say you guys are right or wrong in your beliefs, but America is not Europe even though you guys feel like we can just adopt Europe's way of life and everyone would live happily ever after.

In either case we have a constitutional right to own guns and create a militia if need be (which is your civilian population not your standing army) That doesn't suggest a well regulated militia is limited to bolt action rifles, but being a militia they would have weapons available to what a well regulated (or in other words "well equipped") militia would have for their time.

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by Kryties
Cue the chest beating and "America is the Greatest" catchphrase.....

No it is more of a fact... Europe is not very well defended or could maintain a war anymore than they did in WWII against a much smaller country than China. 90% of the ISAF soldiers in Afghanistan might as well be clerks, so I really would not put my trust in their ability to hold back any kind of invasion. But that is Europe, you guys are kind of screwed either way if it does happen.

Wow, just wow. I know now how clueless you are about realities with that statement and find the rest of your posts unreliable. This one statement kind of turned me on you in a sense that I now know your just speaking off the cuff without much factual evidence to support your claims.

Your disinfo, move on please.

You know what? I'm out. All I can see is a bunch of gun nuts whinging that others want to take away their right to shoot whomever they choose, whenever they choose with whatever they choose and that the lives of 20 kids, plus countless others, are merely "collateral damage" as long as their right to bear arms is not infringed upon.

Bloody disgusting if you ask me.

Very nice presentation op However, no matter how much truth you put out to the universe-ATS, people for some odd reason cannot get it through their thick heads that: (Criminals will always find a gun and commit a crime) regardless of their states gun laws.

Just had to put my two cents worth in.

Thanks op, appreciate the time that you put into this post

reply to post by Kryties


So you believe what the MSN tells you? You don't research for yourself, what if they are wrong??

I try not to promote ignorance and I check 3 sources before I commit to the facts.


Not my fault your news is like that of America, full of half truths and spin.

However before I look foolish I check to see what I am talking about, especially if I sound so arrogant doing so.

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by Kryties
reply to post by Xtrozero

 

I don't really care mate, all I can hear is chest beating and chants of "America is the Greatest".

I guess the point is Europe's population feel that their Government can protect and take care of them under all situations, and many in America do not feel the same way about our own Government doing the same. I'm not going to say you guys are right or wrong in your beliefs, but America is not Europe even though you guys feel like we can just adopt Europe's way of life and everyone would live happily ever after.

In either case we have a constitutional right to own guns and create a militia if need be (which is your civilian population not your standing army) That doesn't suggest a well regulated militia is limited to bolt action rifles, but being a militia they would have weapons available to what a well regulated (or in other words "well equipped") militia would have for their time.

You realize these militias were made back in the day to use Guerrilla warfare against all their enemies, which by today's standards is considered "terrorism"?

So you support guns and militias, that means you support domestic terrorism. I'd be careful if I were you. The USA is not far from making that connection and it won't be long till your disarmed for the protection and security of all US Citizens adults and children a like.

Do you not realize your government is on the same path Hitler was on? Wake up already!

Also why do you protect something that takes human life when your supposed civilization is more advanced then anyone else and your ways are better then everyone else? If it's so damned good why are you guys having the most problems world wide?
The USA is the major issue in this world today and their examples to the world are laughable.

By the way, the only time a Militia is honored and rewarded is if they end up ousting the government and seating their own leader into that government. Otherwise they are labelled enemies of the state and terrorists.

So you can arm yourself for your Militia all you want, don't publicize it or you will have the ATF on your butt. Guaranteed.

That's your freedom. Enjoy it.

Click here for more information.

Originally posted by thedigirati
reply to post by Kryties

 

So you believe what the MSN tells you? You don't research for yourself, what if they are wrong??

I try not to promote ignorance and I check 3 sources before I commit to the facts.

Not my fault your news is like that of America, full of half truths and spin.

However before I look foolish I check to see what I am talking about, especially if I sound so arrogant doing so.

I could care less about your petty little argument over whether or not the AR-15 is classified as an assault rifle or not. The fact is one was used to successfully blow away 20 kids, something that seems to get forgotten by the gun nuts.

Originally posted by thedigirati
I don't see in OUR constitution anywhere where is says I have the right to bare chemical weapons, so how would that be a right you are trying to take away? logic fail

Nor does it say you have the right to own semi-automatic rifles, or pistols of any form. So are you ok with gun control that restricts these?

reply to post by tehdouglas


Did you read everyone elses posts too or just mine? Because you seem to have missed the many posts aimed at insulting me or gun control advocates in general.

Oh and I wouldn't have to say "the same damn thing over and over again" if the gun nuts didn't keep using the same old arguments over again themselves. See how that works?

reply to post by tehdouglas



Star for you sir, and notice when I called him out on it, he ran off in a huff...


funny how that works huh??

do as I say not as I do, that hurts my "feelings"

reply to post by Kryties


I agree with you wholeheartedly. Many are fighting for the right to carry arms meanwhile 20 children are being buried.
It's hell on earth when the innocent die while the evil people of the world dictate laws and regulations and pass them off as righteous.

Ignorance may be bliss for the ignorant, for the knowledgeable it's a world wide plague that needs purging.

Originally posted by thedigirati
reply to post by tehdouglas

 

Star for you sir, and notice when I called him out on it, he ran off in a huff...


funny how that works huh??

do as I say not as I do, that hurts my "feelings"

Yet I am still here....

Yet more nonsense being spewed forth.

reply to post by thedigirati


Only 3 sources eh? You consider that "investigation"? LOL.

I hope those sources aren't CNN. BBC and MSNBC...

If you were a real researcher you would not be here anyways so stop acting high and mighty over it.

Also being a contributor here you would think you would lead by example and show how research is done, instead you devolved into insults and laughing with people who threw insults as well. Immature to say the least and like a bully to say the most.

Grow up people. Some have differing views, deal with it and move on.