Retailers start to pull some rifles from shelves

looks like the term pre ban is gonna come back into the vernacular i wonder how many guns will sell before they attempt this new awb as currently it seems to just be flooding the market with guns that like last time will be exempt as long as they were made before the ban.then the process that started with the last brady bill and ban comes into effect wait it out stack the deck with pro gun senators and congressmen and either repeal it or hopefully just wait for it to expire like the last one was,the other thing to do is keep track of any politician that voted for this and to remind them even if they have given up on it we have not and we will vote them out of office least thats what i plan to do

Originally posted by Dragoon01
reply to post by kingmonkey

 

I dont have a problem telling you my point was I dont HAVE to.
I own guns for protection

I carry on a daily basis. I own a number of rifles and shotguns. I own several guns that I use to teach others how to shoot. I am a certified rifle instructor.

I am not a hunter although I do not have a problem with hunting, my guns are for shooting people.
Thats a little crass but its fact. I train to use them and I challenge myself to get better and better in that training.
I am attending 4 or more defensive pistol classes a year and instructing about the same number of classes for basic rifle a year.

I gain satisfaction from knowing that I can protect my family and my property from those who wish us harm. I do not have to wait for someone else to save me.
There is a competative aspect to it as well, I want to shoot better than the guy next to me or my friends who also attend the range or a class.

EDIT**
I deem it necessary for me to be able to protect my own and not have to wait for help to arrive

edit on 19-12-2012 by Dragoon01 because: additional material

A fair and decent response, thank you.

Protecting your family is a basic human instinct so I'd never ague that point.

I'm sure your far from being alone in your view but it seems one things breeds another here. Crime or the fear of crime leads to more gun ownership which seems to have spiralled out of control. This, coupled with seemingly unchecked mental health issues in society, paints a bit of a dismal view of the future.

reply to post by kingmonkey


Gun ownership cannot "spiral out of control". It is a right. Rights cannot "spiral out of control".

Was talking with a guy I know. He is fairly wealthy and attends all manner of conventions related to his hobbies. About a month ago he went to a ski convention. People were pushing and grabbing, trying to get the freebies being given out. He reported several people, including ladies and a child, were pushed down by the surging crowds. He said the scene was so outrageous that he just left after only spending a few minutes there.

The next weekend he goes to the same place. This time it is a gun show. The crowd there, in stark contrast to the prior week, was well mannered. He heard "please" and "thank you" frequently, as well as "excuse me" and "after you".

I have experienced this myself. Typically, when you are around gun owners, you notice a marked change in manners and decorum. You see less squabbling over trivial baubles, and instead see offers of courtesy and right of way.

My hometown has about 1, maybe 2 murders a year on average. They are typically related to drug cartels, and involve people that no one knows (as they are not from here). We have pretty high rape rates (about 3 times the per capita avarage nationally). But our murder rate is less than 5% of the national average. Burglary is wholly unheard of. Most crimes involve family violence and drugs.

Living in a gun culture, I can say from the outside looking in that it seems like gun ownership, all by itself, is a crime deterrent. I wouuld much, much rather pay for guns that pay to support a bloated policing apparatus.

It is not just retailers that are pulling the weapons off the shelf so is for sale sites www.ksl.com...

Statement on Firearms and Hunting Section

Like everyone else in the country, the management of KSL is profoundly saddened by the tragedy in Connecticut. In the wake of this and other similar incidents, important questions have been raised about the ease of access to guns. These questions deserve time for careful consideration and we are confident that an appropriate resolution will be found. Accordingly, KSL has temporarily suspended firearms listings on KSL.com classifieds. We recognize that this may inconvenience responsible citizens who have used this service, but we feel this is an important step while these broader societal issues are examined.

so is it there are not going to be held liable or is it the fact that they are not pro gun?

reply to post by kingmonkey


Star for you. I like when people can have honest conversations about topics.

I think your point about mental health is what is really at the root of these things.
I gave some thought to this today.
I work in a big office building with about 1000 people in it on a daily basis.
Right now I am sure that some man or women in my office is getting ready to go home and get angry with their spouse. This may even lead to violence. We have heated debates and disagreements about work issues all the time. We have people who are dealing with financial issues like debt and bills.

At any time any of these people could snap and go off.

What prevents that?
What stops people from taking the stress of modern life and turning it into rage?
Is it the law?
Is it the fear of what will happen if they do that?
Is it the respect that normal people have for others?
Is it the fear of what others will do to them if they do?
I think its all those things. Those things build up a mental barrier that normal people do not cross. The environment that people exist in can errode that barrier and they come to accept behavior that is terrible to anyone still well protected mentally.
People with mental problems can have this barrier completely removed and at that point there is nothing that will prevent them from acting on animal compulsion. When confronted with stress they will rage and lash out.

No amount of law or bans or restrictions will prevent those people from acting on these compulsions. They do not function in a rational way.

reply to post by bekod


see this is the thing i dont get why do people focus on online sales? you still need to go into a brick and mortar store to pick up your gun and go through a background check so as long as the ffl its shipped to isnt crooked i dont see how buying a gun online is any kind of loophole that can be exploited.....only guns you can buy online that get shipped to your door are black powder otherwise you need to have a ffl or a curio and relic permit to have guns shipped to you door so can any one clear up why every one is freaking out about online gun sales?

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


I didn't mean that gun ownership is spiralling out of control....I meant (my perception of) the situation as a whole is spiralling out of control. These shootings are becoming all too common.

They can only take your guns if they know you have them. Only an idiot would apply for a conceal carry, or buy weapons that forces them to be on a list. I conceal carry. Don't need a permit, not going to get one. The life I one day might have to save could be yours. I live in America. I can legally own a gun. There was no registration process when they setup the constitution, so I don't recognize the over-bloated bureaucratic nonsense you folks have allowed to happen. Just like I don't pay for much of anything that hasn't been through congress......but most of you people wont even know what I'm talking about or how I avoid it. Sad you people live in a country your too ignorant to understand. I say you folks allowed it to happen, because you sit there on your computer, pretend you understand something.....then you log off and become one of the idiots that I'm talking about. If you computer jockeys walked the walk......well, America wouldn't be in this terrible situation. But you, your parents, grandparents, teachers...Hollywood...everything has turned off your ability to even know where you frigging live. Sad, just sad. Even the morons you vote for don't know how the government works.

But then again, the average person is an idiot, and quite frankly, I am better than most of the ants I step on everyday. I shudder to think that I could be walking next to some freaking moron who has a "license" to conceal carry. That's like getting a "license" to panhandle...or to live out of your car....people are so stupid.

There is a better chance of me being hit by lighting, in the middle of the desert while getting bitten by a great white shark than ever having to fire any weapon I may or may not own in self defense. And I'm cool with that. But then why carry if the odds are so slim you ask? Why bother with a lottery ticket I ask back?

Originally posted by Dragoon01
reply to post by kingmonkey

 

Star for you. I like when people can have honest conversations about topics.

I think your point about mental health is what is really at the root of these things.
I gave some thought to this today.
I work in a big office building with about 1000 people in it on a daily basis.
Right now I am sure that some man or women in my office is getting ready to go home and get angry with their spouse. This may even lead to violence. We have heated debates and disagreements about work issues all the time. We have people who are dealing with financial issues like debt and bills.

At any time any of these people could snap and go off.

What prevents that?
What stops people from taking the stress of modern life and turning it into rage?
Is it the law?
Is it the fear of what will happen if they do that?
Is it the respect that normal people have for others?
Is it the fear of what others will do to them if they do?
I think its all those things. Those things build up a mental barrier that normal people do not cross. The environment that people exist in can errode that barrier and they come to accept behavior that is terrible to anyone still well protected mentally.
People with mental problems can have this barrier completely removed and at that point there is nothing that will prevent them from acting on animal compulsion. When confronted with stress they will rage and lash out.

No amount of law or bans or restrictions will prevent those people from acting on these compulsions. They do not function in a rational way.

It's a sensitive topic on here so it's good to be able discuss it rationally.

I actually agree with everything you've said here. I don't have answers to any of your questions, but I believe they are the right questions to be asking.

Where our views differ is on your last point. People are lashing out and acting out on compulsion, regardless of the reasons, I don't think having easy access to all manner of weaponry at the same time can ever be a good thing.

Some have suggested arming the entire nation. I can only imagine how horrific that could potentially be, in your office say, if someone does flip and you have 1000 people all going for their guns. Yes, the shooter could be quickly taken out, but it could also be carnage on an epic scale.

With these kind of shootings seemingly on the increase, will the US eventually fear going to work, fear sending their kids to school, fear being 'free' ??

Originally posted by kingmonkey
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

I didn't mean that gun ownership is spiralling out of control....I meant (my perception of) the situation as a whole is spiralling out of control. These shootings are becoming all too common.

Yeah, there was never any problems like this until modern times, lol. As far as common....that's debatable. How many millions of people live in the United States? And how many of them have died in a mass shooting? Common....looked at the math man your head is not on straight. Just because it makes the 24 hour news cycle everyday for weeks on end doesn't mean this is a common thing at all.

There could be one of these incidents a year for 10 years and it wouldn't be even remotely common. Your letting your heart do your thinking, rather than your brain.

Tragedy? Yup. Life goes on? Yup. Going to happen again? Yup. There is no law that can be passed that would prevent something like this from happening, short of confiscating every gun from everyone at the exact same millisecond. But I live in reality, unlike most of you. Oh my gosh....wait a second......this gunman couldn't have done this...never-mind....he was in a gun free zone....what he was doing before he shot somebody was illegal.....stop the press!!!!!! You people don't bother to think anymore, do you.

The only way this could have been prevented was to counter force with force. If I ever wanted to be a criminal, thanks to stupid laws I know right where guns aren't...and that's where I go. Get it? Get it? Get it? Get it?

You folks cry and whine some more until you get more words from the government on a piece of paper that will make you feel safe......me, I'll worry about myself.

Does anybody around here use their heads or is it just me?

bostinno.com... obamas speech on gun control today this link has a video and a complete transcript of the video for those who can not watch them,also at the bottom of the page is a link to the question and answers asked about his speech


from my reading it seems to not have really hinted at anything specific as far as what is wanted to be banned other then the ambiguous battle field weapons line,with a stronger focus placed on the deficiency of our mental heath system and keeping guns out of the hands of crazies

The good news is there’s already a growing consensus for us to build from. A majority of Americans support banning the sale of military-style assault weapons. A majority of Americans support banning the sale of high-capacity ammunition clips. A majority of Americans support laws requiring background checks before all gun purchases so that criminals can’t take advantage of legal loopholes to buy a gun from somebody who won’t take the responsibility of doing a background check at all.

this line from obama makes me think he wants to elminate private party transfers in the new bill(coincidentally it could be a way of trying to get around the made in mt fire arms act and simaler laws passed in a few states that seek to limit federal gun control)


and you have to go to the last page of q and a to hear anything on actual gun issues as the first few are on the economy and semi autos are only refrenced once or twice i guess we will have to wait for joe to speak and then mostlikely obamas state of the union address will clarify more info on the subject

Originally posted by RalagaNarHallas

The good news is there’s already a growing consensus for us to build from. A majority of Americans support banning the sale of military-style assault weapons. A majority of Americans support banning the sale of high-capacity ammunition clips. A majority of Americans support laws requiring background checks before all gun purchases so that criminals can’t take advantage of legal loopholes to buy a gun from somebody who won’t take the responsibility of doing a background check at all.

Is the part bolded true? Does a majority of Americans truly support this? I assume this would be like the Assault Weapons Ban.

reply to post by Gauss


was their emphasis not mine i actually didn't notice that until you told me,in the q and a when he was asked why he had not done anything yet he said he had been to busy with the economy and whatnot so it seems one way to possibly save gun rights is keep the president distracted as he seems to claim that keeps him from doing these things,i dont think we will know more tell bidens speech.

i would not say i agree that the bulk of Americans think that way but we will have to wait a bit to see what the general consensus is amongst Americans gun owners and non gun owners but i would not put it past them to try ti use the school shooting as much as they can to push their goal of a awb. i think its a disatvantage to them that they will have to wait as long as they will to try to get this passed as by then alot of the blind emotion and fervor should have died down a bit and more rational thoughts will prevail but we will have to wait and see the size and scope of the new law to find out exactly how bad it will be for the 2nd amendment.

i will applaud obama(dont do it often) on at least bringing up and seeming to place a focus on the mental health aspect of it as opposed to all guns bad rhetoric that we have seen on ats since the shooting.and from what i can recall of it he didn't try to shift blame to the usual scape goats that are violent tv and video games so that gives me hope that at least they are trying to focus on more real issues then just fear based law making if that makes any sense

reply to post by RalagaNarHallas


No, no, haha, I did the bolding because I was curious about that part.

But thank you for clarifying. I sincerely do hope more rational thoughts prevail personally. But who can say for sure when it comes to politicians? As you say though - it's good that he brought up mental healthcare. That's where the real focus should lie, imho. There, and in controlling and regulating the many drugs Americans take these days with "behavioral changes and aggressiveness" as side-effects...

Marketing scheme. They pull them from the displays, wait a week, put them back out at a 200% markup and they sell out in two days.
People are going to rush in and buy them because they'll be afraid they won't be able to if they wait.

A gun ban would take a very long time to push through and isn't going to be successful since they would need 2/3 of the Congress and 3/4 of the popular vote. There may be regulations introduced on the sale of assault weapons, but there will be no gun ban. Not even half of the population would agree to it, let alone 3/4. The republicans control the house, they won't get 2/3 to back it. Just not going to happen.

Marketing scheme. They pull them from the displays, wait a week, put them back out at a 200% markup and they sell out in two days.
People are going to rush in and buy them because they'll be afraid they won't be able to if they wait.

A gun ban would take a very long time to push through and isn't going to be successful since they would need 2/3 of the Congress and 3/4 of the popular vote. There may be regulations introduced on the sale of assault weapons, but there will be no gun ban. Not even half of the population would agree to it, let alone 3/4. The republicans control the house, they won't get 2/3 to back it. Just not going to happen.

Wal Mart in Albemarle NC has ZERO assault style weapons in stock, and no .223 ammo on its shelves.
On the other hand, God's Country Outfitters next door is FULLY STOCKED in weapons and ammo. If you live nearby, I'd advise stocking up

Originally posted by HomerinNC
Wal Mart in Albemarle NC has ZERO assault style weapons in stock, and no .223 ammo on its shelves.
On the other hand, God's Country Outfitters next door is FULLY STOCKED in weapons and ammo. If you live nearby, I'd advise stocking up

Like I said. Marketing scheme.

www.cheaperthandirt.com... cheaper then dirt is resuming firearms sales in 72 hours (their time frame says anytime from now tell then) they just wanted to review their process and will resume shipping firearms to ffl's only and that they are receiving overwhelming ammounts of orders so it could take time

reply to post by Gauss


more directly to your original question i think it shows the real divide between Americans on issues that can be effected by things other then just black or white issues. for example rural americans are much more likely to be more against gun control and people who live in cities as a whole tend to be more interested in more gun control options and that just shows how blanket laws will not appeal to or make every one happy as a rural dwelling american has different views then the average city dwelling American and this extends to issues other then gun control as well. these issues make it harder to find out how americans really feel on this issue as opinions varry from all ends of the spectrum from those that want to be able to own all guns and any type of guns to those on the other side who do not think any one except the police and military should have weapons .i think more so the issue will come down to how our elected officals vote on the new bill as they are the ones who control our fate in the matter,what role the people play in this is to either remove those who voted against the majority's wishes or keep them in office for really doing what all the bulk of Americans really want if that makes any sense?if people unilateraly decide to not re-elect those in the senate and house due to their votes on the new gun law in question we then find out that the majority of Americans oppose that view,if we elect them again after voting for it we can conclude that at-least the majority of peoples wishes were listend to by their law makers and that will let us know the general consensus of the american people