Retailers start to pull some rifles from shelves

Originally posted by ConspiracyMatt
There is good reason for the shops pulling out certain rifles from the shelves. They are just too much.
Who needs a semi-automatic killing machine with armor plated bullets to shoot deer?

I want to re-iterate the ignorance and complete lack of informed opinion of this statement.

Semi-Automatic killing machine? In an earlier post in this thread (which you either decided to ignore or simply didnt read) myself and several others went to great lengths to explain why there is a physical impossibility AND limit on how much semi-automatic can be considered any type of killing machine. The limitation you ask? It's simple: how quickly you can pull the trigger to eject ONE SHOT AT A TIME. Semi-automatic is incapable of multi-round ejection with a single pull of the firearms trigger.

Armor plated bullets? Why would any bullet need armor plating? There are armor PIERCING bullets, which I will assume for the moment amidst your utter ignorance of the other aspects of firearms was simply a faux pas. You can't purchase armor piercing bullets over the counter, and quite frankly, to wrack destruction on children and teachers, you dont need them. To have access to armor piercing bullets your only hope is that you are a reloader; know how to properly gauge and cut cases; know the ballistic coefficients; and have all of the dies, micrometers, scales, loads, powder, cutting tools and press to actually press them. They are also typically of the titanium flavor to penetrate kevlar and flak jackets.

As TGRT said, it's a shame that the ignorance of that statement isn't enough to negate it's own raison d'etre.

reply to post by kingmonkey


Well the thing about people who have steped over that edge is that they have the mindset.

Let me give you the 5 minute outline on the survival continum.
Now this information is something that croses a lot of areas from survival to safety to just any activity.
The following list shows the most important things in terms of survival or safety from LEAST to MOST

5 Tools (this would include the gun)
4 Tactics (the methods you use)
3. Skills (must have the basic knowledge and practice it)
2. Awareness (must know there is danger or a problem)
1. Mindset (must have the will to act)

If you look at that list this applies to people who are in danger as well as people who are causing danger.
The person who has the will to act will use whatever tools skills and methods that are available but they are dangerous even without all of those things.

Now I am obviously a pro gun supporter and very much in favor of people taking responsibility for themselves and their safety. To many people think that just getting that tool is all they need to do. Thats a problem but its not solved by taking the tool away. They will be very much behind the bad guy on that list if you do that. The bad guy is all the way at the bottom and he is going to kill with whatever tool he can get be that gun, knife or iron pipe.

These mass shootings or killings are all about odds. The odds are better for the victims if there is someone else who is armed and prepared to act to defend them at the site. Just because someone has a gun or a knife does not mean they will act but if you have more people who are armed and prepared the more likely it is that you will stop the bad guy. Statistically the bad guy kills himself when confronted by determined capable resistance

reply to post by Dragoon01


So the best defense isn't a gun at all, it's the ability to alter a mindset.

Those who can manipulate others with words or actions will be the "top dog".

I am new here, so please forgive me for jumping in the middle of this.

In the area where I live (the great plains) there is a rush to purchase some rifles (like the AR-15, AK-47 clones, ect....) but I have not seen any stores pulling guns off the shelves, except to sell them. Also popular are the higher capacity magazines which are selling quickly.

The prices for those weapons are WAY over inflated.

I believe there are many questions.

Will limited high capacity magazines have any real effect? A person with even adequate skill can change a magazine in just a few seconds. So a potential killer could have a pocket of 5-10 round magazines, and change them really quickly. So lack of a high capacity magazine might only slow down a murderer by less than a minute.

Any kind of weapon can become a murder weapon in the wrong hands. Was this latest killer's mental health issues treated appropriately? There is a discussion worth considering..... Did he need to be institutionalized? Perhaps? And why did his mother have firearms in her home IF she knew he was a danger?

Also, the killer is alleged to have been "hocked on violent video games" but does that mitigate his own responsibility?

Thanks for reading my post.

reply to post by L8RT8RZ


UH
No
The best defense is to respond with swift brutal overwhelming violence.
The man or women who has already thought about how that could go down and has mentally readied themselves for that is much more prepared to deal with it.

Maybe a female who weighs 110 lbs can talk her way out of being sexually assaulted.
My wife however will put a full mag in his face.
Which one of those do you think the odds favor?


EDIT**

Just wanted to add I was not attempting to sound so dismissive toward your post. I dont think I explained the mindset issue in as much detail as I would have liked. Yes changing the mindset of the attacker is very much important. Thats why there are times that an attacker is turned away by a loud yell or determined posture. An attacker in a situation like a mass shooting is beyond that level of response. They are well beyond that barrier that keeps people from lashing out on a daily basis. There are times that a single wound will stop that kind of attack but there are times that attackers are shot many times before they even feel it. If you read Police shooting stats this will prove out. You dont know what kind of person you are dealing with. This is why you respond with the most efficent means of violence that you can get a hold of and that is the weapon you have on hand. If thats a knife then stab away. If its a lamp grab it and start swinging. You however dont want to go into an encounter with little or no means to defend yourself, that is why we carry a firearm. Even if an attaker had no access to a gun that does not mean we should not respond with a gun.

Originally posted by Dragoon01

Originally posted by westlynx
This is just an example of the major misunderstanding.

edit on 19-12-2012 by westlynx because: Wrong picture

I get it but there is a mistake on that picture.
The second rifle is not a "7.72 Nato" In fact there is no such thing as a 7.72 NATO.
There is a such thing as a 7.62 NATO but that gun does not fire that caliber. Its could be a 5.56mm judging by the magazine but it could also be a .223 or even a .300 Blackout since they all use the same mag.

Picking at nits i know.... just sayin.

Ever heard of the AR-10? From a distance they look pretty much identical to an AR-15. Look a little closer at the magazine - it is straight where AR-15 mags are curved...

Originally posted by AwakeinNM
Just talked to the gun guy at my local wally world. He said they had about 10 ARs and they flew off the shelves. Also said he could have sold at least 50 of them if he had them.

OOPS, quoted my own wrong post. Meant to talk about my friend's gun shop...

Just took a trip up there. He is PICKED CLEAN. He wasn't even there - probably taking a trip to Hawaii with a wad of cash. He only had one black gun left - a SCAR with what looked like a suppressor. Pricey stuff. Other than that, about a dozen hunting rifles and a few shotguns.

Sucks to be him right now - all that cash in his pocket.

reply to post by CommandoJoe


There is a good wiki article on it. You could look it up!

P

www.telegraph.co.uk... perhaps they arent really pulling them so to speak(other then dicks sporting goods) but are just plain out of them

and i found this graph pretty interesting in this link from the guardian www.guardian.co.uk... it even gives a state by state break down of background checks for each state and percentage of armed citizens for example my state Montana has more guns then residents

and kentucky has (according to the link in background checks) 4 guns for ever person in their state....wow that suprised even me

I finally went to a gun shop to speak to the owner. On Wednesday he sold 80 ar-15s.

He also said that no one had called him. He had received around fifty requests for interviews since last Friday.
His solution would be to retool the laws. He didn't go into details.

OMG these people that want to ban guns just grip my hind end.

They do not under stand if you ban all the guns then it will be only the bad people that
still have them.They do not play by the rules nor do the care to break the law to get a gun.

It will lead to more killing and abuse of powers by the bad guys and the government

The only way to stop things like this from happening is for society to change all their values.
And by that i mean every single sole on this planet.

And i do not see that happening any time soon.The other way is by a armed response.
By that i mean a armed teacher or armed security in places that thing like this happen. .

What happened at that school was a tragedy,and no words can explain how those parents and
family's feel or the emotions that they are dealing with.It is truly sad and disgusting times we live in.

But i can say this for a fact if the school had armed teachers or armed security
the loss of life would have been greatly reduced or completely avoided.

The only way to stop a rat is call the rat killer.
( Rooster Cogburn )