Do Freemasons worship demons!? I used to think not. Then I read this.

Originally posted by NarrowGate
...everyone in the Church knows Christmas is not the actual day of Jesus' birth.

But just by total coincidence it happens to fall on one of the biggest, if not the biggest, Pagan Holidays in the history of Rome.

Nah, no Pagan influence here.

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon

Originally posted by NarrowGate
reply to post by Fitzgibbon

 

It is not that I am exceptional and most of us aren't. It is that I am trying to follow God's Law, and most aren't.

I'm sorry you feel that way. Maybe the people of your acquaintance differ from those of mine. In my personal experience, we're all trying to follow His law; accomplishment is secondary to the attempt.

Fitz

Okay I am about to go back and respond to all of the points you addressed earlier, but I wanted to clarify this more.

Look at what is actually going on in the world. The Christians with large amounts of influence are not living the Word, that is painfully obvious to anyone who objectively looks at the situation. I used to believe as you do, that everyone is trying. As time went on and I saw more and more of the truth, I realized that is not really what is happening. Do unto others as you would have others do unto you is completely being ignored. Let alone the rest of the Law.

I have obituaries and stories that would give you PTSD just hearing about it as evidence of this. Every tragedy I have seen in my short life would have been avoided, save one that was not due to greedy people with a twisted idea of personal responsibility.

I am going to try to get to the rest before Mass.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by NarrowGate
...everyone in the Church knows Christmas is not the actual day of Jesus' birth.

But just by total coincidence it happens to fall on one of the biggest, if not the biggest, Pagan Holidays in the history of Rome.

Nah, no Pagan influence here.

You really do have a problem grasping concepts don't you? How did what I said about Halloween apply here? Try thinking on it.

Originally posted by NarrowGate
You really do have a problem grasping concepts don't you?

No, it would appear that you do my pagan-denying, apologist friend.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by NarrowGate
No it was pronounced Jesus. The spelling changed to fit the language, not the pronunciation. Nice try?

Do any of these two words ישוע‎ (Yēšûă‘), יְהוֹשֻׁעַ‎ (Yĕhōšuă‘) look like 'Jesus' which is Anglicised Greek?

I find it comical that you think the Biblical Hebrews spoke English.

Did you just ignore what I said?

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by NarrowGate
...everyone in the Church knows Christmas is not the actual day of Jesus' birth.

But just by total coincidence it happens to fall on one of the biggest, if not the biggest, Pagan Holidays in the history of Rome.

Nah, no Pagan influence here.

Noooooo! Total coincidence!

Originally posted by NarrowGate
Did you just ignore what I said?

Who even knows what you are syaing most of the time? You make ridiculous non-fact based pronouncments, backpedal, shift goal posts and generally distort history to suit your agenda.

Let me make this simple for you; when Jesus was alive his pals did not call him 'Jesus'. I gave you the name they would have used. This is not open for debate unless you feel you need to apply more historical revisionism.

Originally posted by NarrowGate
Okay I am about to go back and respond to all of the points you addressed earlier, but I wanted to clarify this more.

Look at what is actually going on in the world. The Christians with large amounts of influence are not living the Word, that is painfully obvious to anyone who objectively looks at the situation. I used to believe as you do, that everyone is trying. As time went on and I saw more and more of the truth, I realized that is not really what is happening. Do unto others as you would have others do unto you is completely being ignored. Let alone the rest of the Law.

I have obituaries and stories that would give you PTSD just hearing about it as evidence of this. Every tragedy I have seen in my short life would have been avoided, save one that was not due to greedy people with a twisted idea of personal responsibility.

I am going to try to get to the rest before Mass.

I guess the point you don't seem to be internalising is that we (in general) and you (in particular) can't know the Plan. My faith is sound enough that I accept that the Plan exists and that for everything there is a reason. Before you haul off and assume that everything is going swimmingly for me and that I have no worries, without going into specifics nothing could be further from the truth. However, such travails aren't sufficient to challenge my faith and I'm sorry yours is so easily flexed.

Because (from the sound of it) I have at least a couple of decades on you, I've internalised 'live and let live' a bit more readily. I'm prepared to recognise good men whether living in castles or cottages, whose faith isn't my own though their actions match my own. Even while professing belief in the same Creator and Saviour, I've seen the terror and carnage that Christians can visit onto their own in the name of "the one true faith".

I am confident in the judgment of the Almighty and believe he will recognise a member of His flock whatever path is taken to arrive just as I am confident that one approaching saying all the right things will be turned away because the actions did not mirror the words.

In short, my faith is my faith and the faith of others doesn't warrant my remediation. That belongs to a higher power with much greater wisdom than any who tread this plane can claim

Fitz

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon
You presume it's under attack. How is God different from Dieu, Gott or Allah?

Simple. God is the Father, the Son, and the Holy spirit. I do not study Dieu or Gott at all, but Allah to my knowledge is a name that Muslims use for the Father. That does not include the Son and the Holy Spirit. Past that, the name of God is Jesus. The name of God is and has been under attack from all angles, as AM demonstrates for you.

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon
I'm sorry but where did I say that? I merely acknowledged my own humility while quietly recommending it. The Almighty knows my intent

Why do you presume so much? Where have I preempted God? He revealed His Son long ago, and both the truth of God and the validity of the New Covenant have been revealed to me in ways I can barely put in words, I guess the experiences of my life would be necessary. To have a false god in front of God is a violation of the 1st commandment. That is why I don't pray with people who do not believe in the true God, the Father the Son and the Holy spirit. What exactly do you consider to be a false god? If you could not know the difference, why did God place so much emphasis on this... Is the Scripture inspired by the Holy Spirit or is it wrong? If it is wrong due to what you believe is human error, I disagree but you could try to provide evidence if you like.

Originally posted by FitzgibbonWhich is entirely up to you. For your sake, I hope you are not incorrect

I think I already touched base on this but to be clear, you can not judge a mans soul or condemn him. You can not judge what God's will is (unless it is a part of public or private revelation). You can not judge yourself as being better than someone. These are some of the main ways that passage applies. If you are in error it is right for me to judge your error and try to show you.

Originally posted by FitzgibbonSorry? Could you be a bit more specific?

I could give examples, but I could not sum it up. You could almost write a thesis on this. For instance we no longer sacrifice animals for the forgiveness of sins. We can use images with our prayers. Would you like more examples or is this sufficient?

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon
In my understanding, the Shepherd will sort His flock. That is my understanding. Is yours meaningfully different?

see above. It does not contradict what you just described, but that is much to vague. Could you be more specific on your beliefs regarding this passage?

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon
I don't quite recall it that way. However.....

You claimed that you are following Him and I am not. You claimed to know His will, and to know that you are in line with it, and to know that I am not and I am following my own will. I am trying to follow to the best of my ability, and it would appear you are too. It might be best to rethink your opinions before you fall (again?). IMHO you did fall here but I can not judge that for certain - just looking to help.

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon
Certainly I suggested you're preempting it by your insistence. How am I in error?

I am not preempting anything. Public revelation covers everything we have discussed here, and you do not know the extent of my private revelation as I do not know yours either. However, blessed is he who believes without seeing.

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon
I will admit that your posts have given me pause and by extension concern to the point of judgment insofar as it concerns me. I don't for a second presume to gainsay the judgment of the Almighty and I would appreciate it if you'd point out where it is you think I have.

You have claimed to be following him, and claimed that I do not. You have done so without evidence, and much of what you say is contradictory to the basics of our public revelation. For instance, you think to call a false religion what it is is to preempt the almighty. It is actually to contradict Him, because He has given you the criteria for truth. These religions do not meet it.

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon
Do you claim to have a perfect understanding of His will and what He taught us? Or would you like to rethink this statement?

Can any human? I most assuredly don't. I just take umbrage with those who seem to think they do.

I never claimed by understanding is perfect. There are things that I do indeed understand though. They are undeniable truths.


Okay I have to go soon, if there is anything I did not get to yet that you want me to answer please point it out. I will try to go back and make sure I get to the rest after Mass.

Originally posted by NarrowGate

That is why I don't pray with people who do not believe in the true God, the Father the Son and the Holy spirit.

I'm sorry, but that makes it sound as if you vet the people you pray with.

reply to post by NarrowGate


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reply to post by AprenticeofLight


Eeerrrrm.... ok. That's nice.

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon

I guess the point you don't seem to be internalising is that we (in general) and you (in particular) can't know the Plan. My faith is sound enough that I accept that the Plan exists and that for everything there is a reason. Before you haul off and assume that everything is going swimmingly for me and that I have no worries, without going into specifics nothing could be further from the truth. However, such travails aren't sufficient to challenge my faith and I'm sorry yours is so easily flexed.

Because (from the sound of it) I have at least a couple of decades on you, I've internalised 'live and let live' a bit more readily. I'm prepared to recognise good men whether living in castles or cottages, whose faith isn't my own though their actions match my own. Even while professing belief in the same Creator and Saviour, I've seen the terror and carnage that Christians can visit onto their own in the name of "the one true faith".

I am confident in the judgment of the Almighty and believe he will recognise a member of His flock whatever path is taken to arrive just as I am confident that one approaching saying all the right things will be turned away because the actions did not mirror the words.

In short, my faith is my faith and the faith of others doesn't warrant my remediation. That belongs to a higher power with much greater wisdom than any who tread this plane can claim

Fitz

Okay, you are in error here and now IMHO it is getting to be serious.

"
I guess the point you don't seem to be internalising is that we (in general) and you (in particular) can't know the Plan. My faith is sound enough that I accept that the Plan exists and that for everything there is a reason. Before you haul off and assume that everything is going swimmingly for me and that I have no worries, without going into specifics nothing could be further from the truth. However, such travails aren't sufficient to challenge my faith and I'm sorry yours is so easily flexed."

1st. The plan has been revealed to all of us. It is our Salvation, and the New Covenant. That is the Plan we just have to stick to it. To pretend to not know is a serious error. It is not about your trials, it is about the body of Christ as a whole not even freaking trying especially those with influence. This is obvious, to deny it would be simply because you want to. You can know this without private revelation. Further, you do not have a mustard seeds worth of faith. That much I can gather from our conversation, and I judge rightly. Neither do I.

2nd.
"Because (from the sound of it) I have at least a couple of decades on you, I've internalised 'live and let live' a bit more readily. I'm prepared to recognise good men whether living in castles or cottages, whose faith isn't my own though their actions match my own. Even while professing belief in the same Creator and Saviour, I've seen the terror and carnage that Christians can visit onto their own in the name of "the one true faith"."

So what you are saying is you gave up because of a few test the Body of Christ went through? What happened to not easily having your faith flexed? These are false gods you speak of are they not???? If not, define false god and how to spot one. Does Satan appear to be benevolent or is Satan the guy you see in Hollywood movies? Has Satan created false religions?

3rd. "I am confident in the judgment of the Almighty and believe he will recognise a member of His flock whatever path is taken to arrive just as I am confident that one approaching saying all the right things will be turned away because the actions did not mirror the words. "

This is called judging. Or preempting the Almighty. Call it what you want, you are in serious error here. Actions speak louder than words, but you can not judge a man by any means at all. You are clueless, regardless of what their actions appear to be to you. I see how it happened though, the passage about casting out demons - the book of life - and the evildoers. This is an example of a passage that is meant to warn YOU, not for you to judge others with. You can not be confident that anyone will be turned away because you simply don't know.

4th "In short, my faith is my faith and the faith of others doesn't warrant my remediation. That belongs to a higher power with much greater wisdom than any who tread this plane can claim."

You are throwing out His wisdom in favor of your current will. He gave you the gift of Truth and you are not using it. You can not discount public revelation, to do so would demonstrate a lack of faith - something that apparently is not easily flexed for you. For me, I am a weak sinner with little faith. Faith smaller than a seed.

Originally posted by NarrowGate
The name of God is and has been under attack from all angles, as AM demonstrates for you.

So pointing out what the Biblical Hebrews would have called Jesus is attacking the name of God?

Get a grip.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by NarrowGate
Did you just ignore what I said?

Who even knows what you are syaing most of the time? You make ridiculous non-fact based pronouncments, backpedal, shift goal posts and generally distort history to suit your agenda.

Let me make this simple for you; when Jesus was alive his pals did not call him 'Jesus'. I gave you the name they would have used. This is not open for debate unless you feel you need to apply more historical revisionism.

Is it that you can not grasp concepts, or that you just don't try to? I may never know. Yes in Hebrew Jesus is spelled differently, but it is pronounced the same. If I am wrong - prove it.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by NarrowGate
The name of God is and has been under attack from all angles, as AM demonstrates for you.

So pointing out what the Biblical Hebrews would have called Jesus is attacking the name of God?

Get a grip.

Are you slow? Seriously... Tell me what they would have called Him and provide proof of this pronunciation.

Also, that is no where NEAR the only time you have attacked the name of Him.

Originally posted by AngryCymraeg

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by NarrowGate
...everyone in the Church knows Christmas is not the actual day of Jesus' birth.

But just by total coincidence it happens to fall on one of the biggest, if not the biggest, Pagan Holidays in the history of Rome.

Nah, no Pagan influence here.

Noooooo! Total coincidence!

It is not a coincidence. However, if it is sufficient proof of "pagan influence" for you, I am happy you are no prosecutor or judge.

Originally posted by NarrowGate
It is not a coincidence. However, if it is sufficient proof of "pagan influence" for you, I am happy you are no prosecutor or judge.

Right. So are you now admitting that the early Christian Church "borrowed" the dates of a number of significant (and extremely popular) pagan festivals? By the way, aren't there theories that the Madonna is in fact the Roman goddess Bona Dea?
Oh and the Pope is still the High Priest of Jupiter. He needs to stop using that title.

Originally posted by NarrowGate
Yes in Hebrew Jesus is spelled differently, but it is pronounced the same. If I am wrong - prove it.

Right here:

ישוע‎ (Yēšûă‘), יְהוֹשֻׁעַ‎ (Yĕhōšuă‘)

What is the pronounciation of those two names? Are 'Yesua' and 'Yehosua' pronounced the same way as 'Jesus'?

Originally posted by AngryCymraeg

Originally posted by NarrowGate
It is not a coincidence. However, if it is sufficient proof of "pagan influence" for you, I am happy you are no prosecutor or judge.

Right. So are you now admitting that the early Christian Church "borrowed" the dates of a number of significant (and extremely popular) pagan festivals? By the way, aren't there theories that the Madonna is in fact the Roman goddess Bona Dea?
Oh and the Pope is still the High Priest of Jupiter. He needs to stop using that title.

No. I said it is not a coincidence. It would be wise to re read this thread. I did not claim that the Church borrowed anything from Paganism. We do protest Pagan holidays, such as Holloween, and take them for God though. As far as Christmas is concerned it is more complicated and something you need to think about more.