Do Freemasons worship demons!? I used to think not. Then I read this.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by NarrowGate
Yes in Hebrew Jesus is spelled differently, but it is pronounced the same. If I am wrong - prove it.

Right here:

ישוע‎ (Yēšûă‘), יְהוֹשֻׁעַ‎ (Yĕhōšuă‘)

What is the pronounciation of those two names? Are 'Yesua' and 'Yehosua' pronounced the same way as 'Jesus'?

This is not proof. This is proof of spelling. Surely you can link to very credible audio evidence here, considering the importance.

Originally posted by NarrowGate
I did not claim that the Church borrowed anything from Paganism.

More goalpost shifting. You claimed the exact opposite:

Originally posted by NarrowGate
I see no pagan influence on Christianity.

Should you not be at Church instead of engaging in more 'unnecessary work'?

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by NarrowGate
I did not claim that the Church borrowed anything from Paganism.

More goalpost shifting. You claimed the exact opposite:

Originally posted by NarrowGate
I see no pagan influence on Christianity.

Should you not be at Church instead of engaging in more 'unnecessary work'?

Stop making yourself look foolish. It is obvious you are either not reading, or you are purposely making false claims. He is the one that claimed that I claimed that?

Apply logic or continue to embarrass your brotherhood. You represent them whether that is right or not, I personally am not happy about it either.

eta your psychic powers are failing you. You have no idea what I am currently doing, or what I am about to do. That much is certain.

Since you enjoy quotes so much, I would recommend digging up my original statement to you and quoting me. Oh wait, that wouldn't make me look bad. Never mind don't do it!! It would be completely against your nature.

Originally posted by NarrowGate
This is not proof. This is proof of spelling. Surely you can link to very credible audio evidence here, considering the importance.

The first letter in the name Yeshua ("Jesus") is the yod. Yod represents the "Y" sound in Hebrew. Many names in the Bible that begin with yod are mispronounced by English speakers because the yod in these names was transliterated in English Bibles with the letter "J" rather than "Y". This came about because in early English the letter "J" was pronounced the way we pronounce "Y" today. All proper names in the Old Testament were transliterated into English according to their Hebrew pronunciation, but when English pronunciation shifted to what we know today, these transliterations were not altered. Thus, such Hebrew place names as ye-ru-sha-LA-yim, ye-ri-HO, and yar-DEN have become known to us as Jerusalem, Jericho, and Jordan; and Hebrew personal names such as yo-NA, yi-SHAI, and ye-SHU-a have become known to us as Jonah, Jesse, and Jesus. source

Yeshua (ישוע, with vowel pointing יֵשׁוּעַ - yēšūă‘ in Hebrew)[1] was a common alternative form of the name יְהוֹשֻׁעַ ("Yehoshuah" - Joshua) in later books of the Hebrew Bible and among Jews of the Second Temple period. The name corresponds to the Greek spelling Iesous, from which comes the English spelling Jesus. source

There is no 'J' in Hebrew so how could it be pronounced the same way? Stop trying to rewrite history, it looks buffoonish.

reply to post by NarrowGate


I'm sorry to say this, but having studied religion I can confidently say that I find little (if any) logic in it.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


Waiting on that audio. Not to mention a credible source of it. Of anything actually. "Well you see, in english we used to say y was j and blah blah". Sounds like BS I want audio.

Originally posted by NarrowGate
He is the one that claimed that I claimed that?

Uh, no, Uncle Ponto. You are the one that claimed there are no pagan influences in Christianity as evidenced by the quote I cited. It was subsequently demonstrated that this is not the case and Christianity, much to your personal chagrin, is pervaded by paganism at its very roots.

Your are constantly betrayed by your own words as you invent so much nonesense you are obviously having a hard time keeping track of what you say.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by NarrowGate
I did not claim that the Church borrowed anything from Paganism.

More goalpost shifting. You claimed the exact opposite:

Originally posted by NarrowGate
I see no pagan influence on Christianity.

something about blind men and pits....



Shiny car right?


Stop trying to gaslight me. Shocker, rif-raff like myself knows what that is.

Originally posted by NarrowGate
[

something about blind men and pits....

edit on 20-1-2013 by NarrowGate because: (no reason given)

Shiny car right?

edit on 20-1-2013 by NarrowGate because: (no reason given)

????? Sorry, but what?

reply to post by AngryCymraeg


If you had read the thread you would understand the shiny car reference. If you were Christian you would understand the blind men and pits reference.

Originally posted by NarrowGate
"Well you see, in english we used to say y was j and blah blah". Sounds like BS I want audio.

The sources were provided. You need to counter them with your own that support your claim that the Hebrews in the time of Jesus used the letter 'J' and would have pronounced his name 'Jesus' instead of the names I provided.

Originally posted by NarrowGate
reply to post by AngryCymraeg

 

If you had read the thread you would understand the shiny car reference. If you were Christian you would understand the blind men and pits reference.

Good grief, studying for an O-Level in Scripture, followed by studying for Confirmation, turned me into an atheist.

Originally posted by NarrowGate

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon
You presume it's under attack. How is God different from Dieu, Gott or Allah?

Simple. God is the Father, the Son, and the Holy spirit. I do not study Dieu or Gott at all, but Allah to my knowledge is a name that Muslims use for the Father. That does not include the Son and the Holy Spirit. Past that, the name of God is Jesus. The name of God is and has been under attack from all angles, as AM demonstrates for you.

That His name has been used as an excuse by worldly men (of the cloth and otherwise) to make this existence Hell and to gather for themselves worldly riches and power does not make it correct and proper. And you'd do well to understand Dieu and Gott; it will help make your understanding of the Almighty more complete while opening your eyes a bit to your on myopic truculence.

And you still haven't addressed the preexisting Jewish covenant with the Father. Is that null and void?

Originally posted by NarrowGate

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon
I'm sorry but where did I say that? I merely acknowledged my own humility while quietly recommending it. The Almighty knows my intent

Why do you presume so much? Where have I preempted God? He revealed His Son long ago, and both the truth of God and the validity of the New Covenant have been revealed to me in ways I can barely put in words, I guess the experiences of my life would be necessary.

It's pretty straightforward. What part of "Judge not" hasn't yet registered?

Originally posted by NarrowGate
To have a false god in front of God is a violation of the 1st commandment. That is why I don't pray with people who do not believe in the true God, the Father the Son and the Holy spirit.

In front of whom? Me? I don't. You assert youthful certainty, immaturity and absolutism the kind of which my own life experience has demonstrated inevitably leads to conflict. That you say you "don't pray with people who do not believe in the true God, the Father the Son and the Holy spirit" suggests to me you don't get out very often let alone with anybody not just like you.

Lonely sounding existence

Originally posted by NarrowGate
What exactly do you consider to be a false god? If you could not know the difference, why did God place so much emphasis on this... Is the Scripture inspired by the Holy Spirit or is it wrong? If it is wrong due to what you believe is human error, I disagree but you could try to provide evidence if you like.

Is God the Father not still God as concerns the Jewish faith? If not, why not?

Originally posted by NarrowGate

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon
Which is entirely up to you. For your sake, I hope you are not incorrect

I think I already touched base on this but to be clear, you can not judge a mans soul or condemn him.

Which, however, you seem at ease doing nonetheless.

Originally posted by NarrowGate
You can not judge what God's will is (unless it is a part of public or private revelation).

Agreed. None of us with any accuracy can (which, alas, hasn't and likely never will stop those lacking humility from doing so)

Originally posted by NarrowGate
You can not judge yourself as being better than someone.

I can although that judgment by its very nature calls the quality of my own judgment into question

Originally posted by NarrowGate
These are some of the main ways that passage applies. If you are in error it is right for me to judge your error and try to show you.

Error is only error where agreement exists on the framework. Otherwise, it devolves into a urination match which can't be answered in this life

Originally posted by NarrowGate

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon
Sorry? Could you be a bit more specific?

I could give examples, but I could not sum it up. You could almost write a thesis on this. For instance we no longer sacrifice animals for the forgiveness of sins. We can use images with our prayers. Would you like more examples or is this sufficient?

Not really. You asserted

Originally posted by NarrowGate
2. PARTS of it are void parts aren't, we already went over this and you ignored me....to make me look bad maybe? IDK if it was intentional or not.?

saying that I ignored you perhaps in an attempt to make you look bad. What precisely is it I'm supposed to have skimmed past? Could you be a bit more specific?

Originally posted by NarrowGate

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon
In my understanding, the Shepherd will sort His flock. That is my understanding. Is yours meaningfully different?

see above. It does not contradict what you just described, but that is much to vague. Could you be more specific on your beliefs regarding this passage?

A variation and extension on "Judge not". It's only vague insomuch as how necessary is it that the faithful know precisely what it is that the shepherd will do to one not of His flock?

Originally posted by NarrowGate

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon
I don't quite recall it that way. However.....

You claimed that you are following Him and I am not.

Does your sense of humour take the Lord's Day off too? Do you REALLY take the passing little jab "You in your way, I in His" as a serious challenge to your faith? I can't even take credit for the line. I just seized a momentary opportunity to apply it.

Do chill.

Originally posted by NarrowGate

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon
Certainly I suggested you're preempting it by your insistence. How am I in error?

I am not preempting anything. Public revelation covers everything we have discussed here, and you do not know the extent of my private revelation as I do not know yours either. However, blessed is he who believes without seeing.

I'm happy for you your public and private revelations. Certainly they must make for any easy faith.

Originally posted by NarrowGate

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon
I don't for a second presume to gainsay the judgment of the Almighty and I would appreciate it if you'd point out where it is you think I have.

You have claimed to be following him, and claimed that I do not.

Seriously, I believe but I also accept that the Almighty has many names, as many as there are languages. That was why the Dieu, Gott, etc. thing earlier. If you don't recognise as simple a concept as that, I earnestly pray that this world will not be burdened with too many like-thinking individuals. Otherwise the Armaegeddon will be of our own creation

Originally posted by NarrowGate
For instance, you think to call a false religion what it is is to preempt the almighty. It is actually to contradict Him, because He has given you the criteria for truth. These religions do not meet it.

You claim not to have parsed that Dieu and Gott and God are the same. You'll pardon me if I don't trust your judgment on more complicated concepts.

Originally posted by NarrowGate

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon

Originally posted by NarrowGate
Do you claim to have a perfect understanding of His will and what He taught us? Or would you like to rethink this statement?

Can any human? I most assuredly don't. I just take umbrage with those who seem to think they do.

I never claimed by understanding is perfect. There are things that I do indeed understand though. They are undeniable truths.

Within your purview. You presume your judgment exact and unfailing. You clearly must be a more perfect creature than I

Fitz

Originally posted by AprenticeofLight
reply to post by NarrowGate

 

My friends I have studied History and Politics for years now and every path I have looked down ends up at the same place,

The Elite are Cabal Worshiping Satanist who believe their Bloodline gives them the right to rule over us, they have designed and manipulated our reality and politics, for centuries they have wared and put these bloodlines into positions of power,

I have a Confession from a Jewish Zionist on my website it is.....

Not surprising. In short, it's the Jews right?

Thanks for you 'enlightenment'

Fitz

Oh, I forgot the use of halos is a pagan influence.

reply to post by NarrowGate

I said influenced not borrowed, and I did not say it borrowed from Freemasonry.

The cross and its various symbolic interpretations precedes Christian use.

Assuming you believe what you have been told that is.

That's why its called faith isn't it?

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

Well, English is the language of God, duh!

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

And it's not man-made!

reply to post by AprenticeofLight

Originally posted by NarrowGate
Okay, you are in error here and now IMHO it is getting to be serious.

Originally posted by NarrowGate

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon
I guess the point you don't seem to be internalising is that we (in general) and you (in particular) can't know the Plan. My faith is sound enough that I accept that the Plan exists and that for everything there is a reason. Before you haul off and assume that everything is going swimmingly for me and that I have no worries, without going into specifics nothing could be further from the truth. However, such travails aren't sufficient to challenge my faith and I'm sorry yours is so easily flexed."

1st. The plan has been revealed to all of us. It is our Salvation, and the New Covenant. That is the Plan we just have to stick to it. To pretend to not know is a serious error. It is not about your trials, it is about the body of Christ as a whole not even freaking trying especially those with influence. This is obvious, to deny it would be simply because you want to. You can know this without private revelation. Further, you do not have a mustard seeds worth of faith. That much I can gather from our conversation, and I judge rightly. Neither do I.

I know the plan as revealed to the small group of apostles in Jesus' time. That is the route as laid down then. The plan is the map the route is laid upon. I am confident that the Word will reach precisely who it needs to in the tone and manner it needs to. Your insistence is almost panicky in its tone.

You also keep avoiding addressing my mention of the covenant the Almighty also had prior to that with the Jews.

2nd.

Originally posted by NarrowGate

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon
"Because (from the sound of it) I have at least a couple of decades on you, I've internalised 'live and let live' a bit more readily. I'm prepared to recognise good men whether living in castles or cottages, whose faith isn't my own though their actions match my own. Even while professing belief in the same Creator and Saviour, I've seen the terror and carnage that Christians can visit onto their own in the name of "the one true faith"."

So what you are saying is you gave up because of a few test the Body of Christ went through? What happened to not easily having your faith flexed? These are false gods you speak of are they not???? If not, define false god and how to spot one. Does Satan appear to be benevolent or is Satan the guy you see in Hollywood movies? Has Satan created false religions?

If by "gave up" you mean 'didn't browbeat and malign every individual I ever have and ever will meet whose beliefs aren't in absolute lockstep with mine then yeah....by that definition, I guess I've given up. As for "not easily having my faith flexed", I mean that it is quietly confident in the path and the route's execution. It doesn't have to proclaim from the mountaintops to draw attention to itself.

Do you understand?

3rd.

Originally posted by NarrowGate

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon
"I am confident in the judgment of the Almighty and believe he will recognise a member of His flock whatever path is taken to arrive just as I am confident that one approaching saying all the right things will be turned away because the actions did not mirror the words. "

This is called judging. Or preempting the Almighty.

Hookay.....so now not judging is suddenly judging. How "1984". Very doubleplusungood that. I'm glad I have you to parse that contradiction for me.

Originally posted by NarrowGate
Call it what you want, you are in serious error here. Actions speak louder than words, but you can not judge a man by any means at all. You are clueless, regardless of what their actions appear to be to you.

You're getting my point. We on this Earth ALL are. We don't have the whole picture. But the One with plan IS able to judge. So why am I in error for not preempting His judgment? How do I KNOW that what is now is going to stay that way without change in the life of every person I meet and should (by your apparent definition) change?

You honestly believe that you have the plan and you have the schedule? Are you familiar with the concept of hubris?

Originally posted by NarrowGate
I see how it happened though, the passage about casting out demons - the book of life - and the evildoers. This is an example of a passage that is meant to warn YOU, not for you to judge others with. You can not be confident that anyone will be turned away because you simply don't know.

I am confident in the judgment of the Almighty that at the end of days, who needs turning away will be in due time. Why is quiet faith so threatening to you?

4th

Originally posted by NarrowGate

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon

"In short, my faith is my faith and the faith of others doesn't warrant my remediation. That belongs to a higher power with much greater wisdom than any who tread this plane can claim."

You are throwing out His wisdom in favor of your current will. He gave you the gift of Truth and you are not using it. You can not discount public revelation, to do so would demonstrate a lack of faith - something that apparently is not easily flexed for you. For me, I am a weak sinner with little faith. Faith smaller than a seed.

What part of 'I am not judging' reaches your ears as 'I am judging'. I am using his gift as I understand it. I'm human. I'm frail. I'm fallible. Do you really believe it's better to substitute your interpretation of His Will and impose it NOW rather than exercise a small modicum of patience and allow Him to exercise it in its full correctness in the time He has designated?

Obviously, my use of the word "flex" confuses you. My faith resists outside pressures. Does that help you understand?

Fitz

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by NarrowGate
"Well you see, in english we used to say y was j and blah blah". Sounds like BS I want audio.

The sources were provided. You need to counter them with your own that support your claim that the Hebrews in the time of Jesus used the letter 'J' and would have pronounced his name 'Jesus' instead of the names I provided.

Your sources are BS, as in not credible, and past that your story is BS. PROVE that they did not pronounce Jesus Jesus. With audio of a Hebrew speaker from a reputable institution. Put up or shut up is what I am saying here.