Do Freemasons worship demons!? I used to think not. Then I read this.

reply to post by Fitzgibbon


Most people including Christians are not even trying. That has nothing to do with my acquaintances. It is a fact.

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon

Originally posted by NarrowGate
reply to post by Fitzgibbon

 

The Word you speak of is not called "god", that is His title (God) another of His titles is Lord. His name is Jesus.

Uh....where exactly did I use the lower case "g" in the word god? I seem to recall it being capital "G" God, His name. Jesus is the Son of God, part of the Holy Trinity (at least in my faith; yours may differ for which I will not take you to task upon)

Originally posted by NarrowGate
Why would my immortal soul be in any more danger now than it was before? I am a poor sinner, who has lost faith on more than one occasion. Although I never stopped believing, I have lost faith and that has nothing to do with trust.I am trying to live like Jesus, and so far I have failed in that task. And you?

Much the same. I just don't presume to have the answers known to the Almighty; that doesn't seem to be an issue for you

Originally posted by NarrowGate
I must apologize Fitz, I will not be able to continue this conversation tonight past this post due to a phone call I just received (if you wouldn't mind asking Jesus to help the sick one who called me, I would appreciate it), but I will try to remember to come back and respond to all of your points tomorrow that I do not get to today. In all honesty I am not going anywhere, but I will not be able to focus enough to continue our discussion. This is due to my lack of faith more than my current emotions. A couple things I saw here I must respond to right away though.

A bientot

Fitz

Okay I am going to stop after this but you keep peaking my interest too much. I don't want to fill up pages of replies because I want to get back to the points you brought up when I am able to focus on what you are saying and my responses.

1. I was not implying that you did, I was looking to imply a difference between the title "god" and God AKA Lord. God is the Father Son and Holy Spirit yes but there are two meanings of the "word" or "Word" or "god" and "God". Since it was relevant to the way we were discussing things at the time, I was only looking to clarify but not imply that you do not know the difference - or that you had un-capitalized the word "God".

There are religions that call things god that are not God. God was not always pronounced God but Jesus was always pronounced Jesus. Jesus is the name of God, for if you have seen Him you have seen the Father. The same logic applies to His Name imho.

2. I know what He taught me and nothing more. He taught me, likely, in the same way He taught you to a certain extent.

3. Good bye and I look forward to getting back to you later about the points you brought up.

Originally posted by NarrowGate
reply to post by Fitzgibbon

 

Most people including Christians are not even trying. That has nothing to do with my acquaintances. It is a fact.

It's assertion; not the same thing. You may feel strongly about it and within your sphere of experience, it may be fact or close to it. But you're presenting it as an ineffable worldwide fact without backing it up. In my experience, such blanket statements are usually found wanting

Fitz

reply to post by Fitzgibbon


OK seriously last reply from me tonight. I have to be sure to answer all of your points, but I can not resist this kind of discussion. I do not know why that is.

My experiences would never have came to be experienced if most Christians were actually living by the Word or at least trying to. Many self-proclaimed are actually not Christian. They boo if you say "do unto others as you would have others do unto you" when they find it inappropriate as if it ever is that.

Similarly, I have a small list of friends who died far to young because too many Christians are not even trying to follow Jesus, but they might believe to an extent I guess. Likely not, considering the age of the ones with influence.

reply to post by NarrowGate

Then you should look harder. There are a lot influences one can see when he objectively looks at it.

Creation story, retribution of God, use of tetramorphs, Easter, Christmas, priestly garments, cross symbolism, messianic story, and eschatology are just a few examples I can think of off the top of my head.

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by NarrowGate

 

Then you should look harder. There are a lot influences one can see when he objectively looks at it.

Creation story, retribution of God, use of tetramorphs, Easter, Christmas, priestly garments, cross symbolism, messianic story, and eschatology are just a few examples I can think of off the top of my head.

For clarity, you are saying Christianity "borrows" from paganism, specifically in the areas of old Roman outfits, the Cross (where your Lord died on this earth, before His ressurection), and apparently also borrowed from Masonry? The last two are especially interesting to me.

eta what is your take on demons copying God, and the way the dimension of time could theoretically play in to it? Assuming you believe what you have been told that is.

Originally posted by NarrowGate
You really do have a problem with concepts don't you?

No, just you.

I was making a general statement with that part of the post, not to be interpreted as me saying the Dogma is incorrect or influenced by paganism.

It is however, as I and another poster have shown you.

I did not try to convince of anything. That was you, and you failed miserably.

Really? This was not you?:

There are known Truths though. Before you say there are not, please read the Catechism of the Catholic Church online.

So being that you have read, and we will give you the benefit of the doubt and say you also understand the Catechism, are you observing your pagan-related holidays like a good Catholic?

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


You are not, and to my knowledge never were, Christian. Stop pretending to know what it is about.

Every day could somehow be related to a pagan holiday at some point in history. You can make anything out of anything if you have an axe to grind, and you do.

You have not shown me anything, in fact you can not even keep up with what I am talking about (or you are not trying to, but I think it is the former).

Just because you took part in the Sacraments at some point and took a few classes does not mean you have any level of actual understanding. Especially considering the way your particular thought process works.

For someone so against organized religion, you sure did just take peoples word for things didn't you (if you ever even were Catholic). Bad plan considering Satan has been harassing the Church for some time now.

Your attempts to be witty are making you look bad, and if I were you I would stop. The reason is that you are displaying not only your lack of understanding, but a complete inability to grasp simple concepts.

If you would like to continue though, by all means good Mason.

I will be back for stuff I didn't get to after I go to Church (where we actively worship the Lord and thank Him for His sacrifice).

AM I am not going to do much talking to you today because it is the Sabbath and talking to you could be considered unnecessary work.

Originally posted by NarrowGate
God was not always pronounced God but Jesus was always pronounced Jesus.

Really? The Aramaic speaking Hebrews used the Anglicised, Hellenistic name Jesus we currently use?

Are you sure they did not call him ישוע‎ (Yēšûă‘) in Aramaic which is modified version of the Hebrew word יְהוֹשֻׁעַ‎ (Yĕhōšuă‘) or Joshua?

You need to stop making such foolish pronouncements as your knowledge of history has been established as in great need of improvement.

Originally posted by NarrowGate
You are not, and to my knowledge never were, Christian. Stop pretending to know what it is about.

Aww, does it bother you that I left your faith? Deal with it.

Every day could somehow be related to a pagan holiday at some point in history. You can make anything out of anything if you have an axe to grind, and you do.

Maybe, but not every day is the natalis Invicti like December 25th was/is. Dropping Jesus' birthday on the date of the fsetival of Sol Invictus (the Unconquerable Sun) is a but more than mere coincidence and the only person who would not see this is a blatant apologist.

Just because you took part in the Sacraments at some point and took a few classes does not mean you have any level of actual understanding. Especially considering the way your particular thought process works.

Aww, are you upset again? It isobvious I know more about this now than you do as you still have your blindfold on.

For someone so against organized religion, you sure did just take peoples word for things didn't you (if you ever even were Catholic).

I did take their word for it. Then I educated myself and took the truth's and historical facts word for it.

I will be back for stuff I didn't get to after I go to Church (where we actively worship the Lord and thank Him for His sacrifice).

Make sure you venerate a few Saints and say a couple of Rosarys while you are at it. No hurt in covering all your dogmatic bases.

AM I am not going to do much talking to you today because it is the Sabbath and talking to you could be considered unnecessary work.

I wish I could say the same but this conversation does not unduly tax me.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by NarrowGate
God was not always pronounced God but Jesus was always pronounced Jesus.

Really? The Aramaic speaking Hebrews used the Anglicised, Hellenistic name Jesus we currently use?

Are you sure they did not call him ישוע‎ (Yēšûă‘) in Aramaic which is modified version of the Hebrew word יְהוֹשֻׁעַ‎ (Yĕhōšuă‘) or Joshua?

You need to stop making such foolish pronouncements as your knowledge of history has been established as in great need of improvement.

No it was pronounced Jesus. The spelling changed to fit the language, not the pronunciation. Nice try?

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


No I am not upset. Yes, you took their word for it in the Church and then you took their word for it when they slander the Church. You have been had, twice over.

eta logically disprove any point of Dogma (discovered truth). Define apologist. Define unduly tax.

Originally posted by NarrowGate
Satan has been harassing the Church for some time now.

Frankly I think that the Roman Catholic Church is its own worst enemy a lot of the time. How many scandals have they been through again? And how many Bishops have been discovered to have looked the other way?

Originally posted by AngryCymraeg

Originally posted by NarrowGate
Satan has been harassing the Church for some time now.

Frankly I think that the Roman Catholic Church is its own worst enemy a lot of the time. How many scandals have they been through again? And how many Bishops have been discovered to have looked the other way?

define scandal and look the other way?

eta everyone in the Church knows Christmas is not the actual day of Jesus' birth. Well, I hope they do anyways. It is just a day we celebrate it.

We also dress our children up as saints on holloween. We are terrible pagans, IMHO.

Originally posted by NarrowGate

Originally posted by AngryCymraeg

Originally posted by NarrowGate
Satan has been harassing the Church for some time now.

Frankly I think that the Roman Catholic Church is its own worst enemy a lot of the time. How many scandals have they been through again? And how many Bishops have been discovered to have looked the other way?

define scandal and look the other way?

eta everyone in the Church knows Christmas is not the actual day of Jesus' birth. Well, I hope they do anyways. It is just a day we celebrate it.

We also dress our children up as saints on holloween. We are terrible pagans, IMHO.

edit on 20-1-2013 by NarrowGate because: (no reason given)

Well there's this little list for a start - en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by AngryCymraeg

Originally posted by NarrowGate

Originally posted by AngryCymraeg

Originally posted by NarrowGate
Satan has been harassing the Church for some time now.

Frankly I think that the Roman Catholic Church is its own worst enemy a lot of the time. How many scandals have they been through again? And how many Bishops have been discovered to have looked the other way?

define scandal and look the other way?

eta everyone in the Church knows Christmas is not the actual day of Jesus' birth. Well, I hope they do anyways. It is just a day we celebrate it.

We also dress our children up as saints on holloween. We are terrible pagans, IMHO.

edit on 20-1-2013 by NarrowGate because: (no reason given)

Well there's this little list for a start - en.wikipedia.org...

You better stop sending your kids to school. I don't have a wiki link and didn't bother clicking yours. The odds of your child being abused are better at school or at the hands of a cop. Guess we shouldn't trust teachers and cops?


Also, that is just grimey. You don't actually think most of the Church is like that right? Are you aware of the existence of Satan?

Look up a global (IE in every country) organization and sex abuse cases. There are none without. Now look at just organizations that are in every state or most states.

Originally posted by NarrowGate
No it was pronounced Jesus. The spelling changed to fit the language, not the pronunciation. Nice try?

Do any of these two words ישוע‎ (Yēšûă‘), יְהוֹשֻׁעַ‎ (Yĕhōšuă‘) look like 'Jesus' which is Anglicised Greek?

I find it comical that you think the Biblical Hebrews spoke English.

Originally posted by NarrowGate
No I am not upset. Yes, you took their word for it in the Church and then you took their word for it when they slander the Church. You have been had, twice over.

The Church and its actions throughout history have 'slandered' themselves.

eta logically disprove any point of Dogma (discovered truth).

Why? I am not here to alter your viewpoint.

Define apologist. Define unduly tax.

Stop being lazy and use a dictionary.

Originally posted by NarrowGate
reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

 

You can make anything out of anything if you have an axe to grind, and you do.

Hmmm.....pot? Meet kettle.

Originally posted by NarrowGate
I will be back for stuff I didn't get to after I go to Church (where we actively worship the Lord and thank Him for His sacrifice).

Which is good though personally I don't restrict worship to Sundays.

Originally posted by NarrowGate
AM I am not going to do much talking to you today because it is the Sabbath and talking to you could be considered unnecessary work.

Huh. Moving goalposts. I'm pretty sure that'd be considered "unnecessary work". However, looking forward to your return after your local sundown.

Fitz

Originally posted by NarrowGate
You better stop sending your kids to school. I don't have a wiki link and didn't bother clicking yours. The odds of your child being abused are better at school or at the hands of a cop. Guess we shouldn't trust teachers and cops?


Also, that is just grimey. You don't actually think most of the Church is like that right? Are you aware of the existence of Satan?

Look up an organization and sex abuse cases. There are none without.

Actually my wife's a teacher, so that dog won't hunt. And no, I don't think that most of the Catholic Church is like that, but I do think there is a scandalously long list of priests who sexually abused children and who were posted to new parishes by bishops who didn't want to involve the authorities, such as the police. How much has the US arm of the Catholic Church paid out in compensation in recent years again?