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Do Freemasons worship demons!? I used to think not. Then I read this.

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posted on Jan, 19 2013 @ 04:14 PM
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reply to post by Fitzgibbon
 


I am going to touch on the only important things you said here.

What is His way?

What does judge not mean? A commonly misunderstood passage.

Since you do not CLAIM TO KNOW HIM better than anyone, you would not make statements saying I do not follow Him according to His will, but you do.


Thanks for clearing up a typo? Why do people feel the need to point out every typo of mine?




posted on Jan, 19 2013 @ 04:16 PM
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Originally posted by Fitzgibbon

Originally posted by NarrowGate
Nor do you have bullet-proof faith if you believe that you do NOT know Him better than anyone in the room. If you know Jesus is truly Lord - you know Him better than anyone who does not know that.


I am a modest man of quiet faith. I have no need to trumpet the quality of my faith to all within earshot. The need to bellow and insist on the enviable depth of my faith clearly demonstrates how shallow it actually is.

Fitz


Well don't go singing it from the mountains or anything
.

enviable and all that...what are you getting at? I don't care what anyone on this forum thinks of me. Simply sharing ideas, and attempting to engage in logical discussion.People are making that last part hard for me.



posted on Jan, 19 2013 @ 04:18 PM
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As an atheist this thread is now officially amusing me. Wait, I need a beer and some popcorn! Carry on please!



posted on Jan, 19 2013 @ 04:18 PM
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Why do you think I am here and why I am posting? How can you assume I HAVEN'T gotten a response?

Would you be willing to bet on that? If so, perhaps you need to drink some milk instead of eating meat. NarrowGate, you seem very closed-minded to any other ideal than what you hold and since you've already judged everything that anyone says, by doing so, you have also judged yourself.

You should refrain from judging; and it does violate Canon Law which says we shouldn't.

Unless you know how to judge people's actions instead of judging them. This is two different things. One recognizes that people can change for the better and another recognizes they cannot.



What does judge not mean? Go ahead and tell me, this will be interesting.



posted on Jan, 19 2013 @ 04:20 PM
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Originally posted by AngryCymraeg
As an atheist this thread is now officially amusing me. Wait, I need a beer and some popcorn! Carry on please!


Sad to say, we have a couple of priests that fell to Satan and denied the holocaust as well. Does that make us all holocaust deniers?

That response is specifically to your signature.

The Nazis are a great example of stupid and blatantly malicious demonic activity. Perfect actually.
edit on 19-1-2013 by NarrowGate because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 19 2013 @ 04:22 PM
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Originally posted by NarrowGate
reply to post by Fitzgibbon
 


I am going to touch on the only important things you said here.

What is His way?

The way of peace that is professed at the heat of the world's major religions.


Originally posted by NarrowGate
What does judge not mean? A commonly misunderstood passage.


Precisely what you say it means. Neither more nor less


Originally posted by NarrowGate
Since you do not CLAIM TO KNOW HIM better than anyone, you would not make statements saying I do not follow Him according to His will, but you do.

I follow him and do my best to tread his path. As I've said, I am a modest man when it comes to faith and defer to others whose words and behaviour more closely treads the footsteps than mine.


Originally posted by NarrowGate
Thanks for clearing up a typo? Why do people feel the need to point out every typo of mine?

My apologies. Professional habit

Fitz



posted on Jan, 19 2013 @ 04:28 PM
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Originally posted by NarrowGate

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon

Originally posted by NarrowGate
Nor do you have bullet-proof faith if you believe that you do NOT know Him better than anyone in the room. If you know Jesus is truly Lord - you know Him better than anyone who does not know that.


I am a modest man of quiet faith. I have no need to trumpet the quality of my faith to all within earshot. The need to bellow and insist on the enviable depth of my faith clearly demonstrates how shallow it actually is.

Fitz


Well don't go singing it from the mountains or anything
.

enviable and all that...what are you getting at? I don't care what anyone on this forum thinks of me. Simply sharing ideas, and attempting to engage in logical discussion.People are making that last part hard for me.

Only that in this day and age, self-aggrandisement in all matters is the norm and all behaviour is at the mercy of the ego. I do my best to follow the instruction in the MM degree to do the good deed for the deed's own sake, something that is quite in line with my own regular intentions.

Fitz



posted on Jan, 19 2013 @ 04:32 PM
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Originally posted by Fitzgibbon

Originally posted by NarrowGate
reply to post by Fitzgibbon
 


If you do not know Jesus is the Way and all other religions are false, you are NOT Christian.

I believe that. I also believe that I am not worthy to so profoundly judge and dismiss others for speaking of God as Dieu, Gott, Allah, Jehovah, etc.


Originally posted by NarrowGate
They are confused and unaware that the New Covenant is valid and has been for 2,000 years already.

They have a preexisting covenant with the Father which they've been faithful to through many trials and tribulations spanning millennia; is that covenant now void?


Originally posted by NarrowGate
I wonder if God specifically warned about doing this with what He said....well it's true what He said. A servent can never be greater than his master and that is who I serve. Thank you, and especially AM, for confirming God's words for me.

We are all servants: you in your way, I in His.


Ok I am backtracking some, I am working while I discuss things on this forum so sometimes I have to back track.

1. God goes by none of those names. It is right to let a brother know who the Way to the Father is. It is right to defend the name of God. It is wrong to keep your mouth shut because you are scared of not *appearing* humble. If they reject it that is their problem not yours. Many men appear humble, few truly are. I am not grouping you with them, or judging you. I am only judging what you have said - and rightly to my knowledge.

2. PARTS of it are void parts aren't, we already went over this and you ignored me....to make me look bad maybe? IDK if it was intentional or not.

3. You just judged. Would you like to know what judge not actually means or are you OK with your current understanding? You just claimed to know Him better than me. In fact, you claimed to know that I place my will above His. So not only are you judging me, but you are also wrongly bordering on judging God. Do you claim to have a perfect understanding of His will and what He taught us? Or would you like to rethink this statement?
edit on 19-1-2013 by NarrowGate because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 19 2013 @ 04:35 PM
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Originally posted by Fitzgibbon

Originally posted by NarrowGate

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon

Originally posted by NarrowGate
Nor do you have bullet-proof faith if you believe that you do NOT know Him better than anyone in the room. If you know Jesus is truly Lord - you know Him better than anyone who does not know that.


I am a modest man of quiet faith. I have no need to trumpet the quality of my faith to all within earshot. The need to bellow and insist on the enviable depth of my faith clearly demonstrates how shallow it actually is.

Fitz


Well don't go singing it from the mountains or anything
.

enviable and all that...what are you getting at? I don't care what anyone on this forum thinks of me. Simply sharing ideas, and attempting to engage in logical discussion.People are making that last part hard for me.

Only that in this day and age, self-aggrandisement in all matters is the norm and all behaviour is at the mercy of the ego. I do my best to follow the instruction in the MM degree to do the good deed for the deed's own sake, something that is quite in line with my own regular intentions.

Fitz


True enough, but why should you allow societies foolish men to dictate your actions because you do not want to look like they do?

Still, you are assuming that behavior is at the mercy of the ego because it is what you see. It is not for me, but it is for many. We should discuss things how they really are, the way we know them to be, and not worry about who it makes us look like.



posted on Jan, 19 2013 @ 04:42 PM
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reply to post by Fitzgibbon
 


So you mean to tell me Judge not just means Judge not and there is no other way to take it?

Is your interpretation literal in that you can not even judge the distance from here to there?


You have clearly judged me in the exact way that that passage applies, while saying that I am the one judging. Actually IDK if that was you that said that, but someone just did.



posted on Jan, 19 2013 @ 04:46 PM
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Originally posted by Fitzgibbon

Originally posted by NarrowGate
reply to post by Fitzgibbon
 


I am going to touch on the only important things you said here.

What is His way?

The way of peace that is professed at the heat of the world's major religions.


Uh...seriously? So as long as a religion claims to be peaceful it must be of God? Satan never appears as the angel of light? Or more specifically - appears to be benevolent?????


I judge right when I tell you - you are not there yet.

edit on 19-1-2013 by NarrowGate because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 19 2013 @ 05:02 PM
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Originally posted by NarrowGate

Ok I am backtracking some, I am working while I discuss things on this forum so sometimes I have to back track.

1. God goes by none of those names. It is right to let a brother know who the Way to the Father is.

It is presumptuous to impose your belief. You may be right but so may he. If we both believe in the Father and keep his covenant is it really your place to preempt the Almighty?


Originally posted by NarrowGate
It is right to defend the name of God.

You presume it's under attack. How is God different from Dieu, Gott or Allah?


Originally posted by NarrowGate
It is wrong to keep your mouth shut because you are scared of not *appearing* humble.

I'm sorry but where did I say that? I merely acknowledged my own humility while quietly recommending it. The Almighty knows my intent


Originally posted by NarrowGate
If they reject it that is their problem not yours. Many men appear humble, few truly are. I am not grouping you with them, or judging you. I am only judging what you have said - and rightly to my knowledge.

Which is entirely up to you. For your sake, I hope you are not incorrect


Originally posted by NarrowGate
2. PARTS of it are void parts aren't, we already went over this and you ignored me....to make me look bad maybe? IDK if it was intentional or not.

Sorry? Could you be a bit more specific?


Originally posted by NarrowGate
3. You just judged. Would you like to know what judge not actually means or are you OK with your current understanding?

In my understanding, the Shepherd will sort His flock. That is my understanding. Is yours meaningfully different?


Originally posted by NarrowGate
You just claimed to know Him better than me.

I don't quite recall it that way. However.....


Originally posted by NarrowGate
In fact, you claimed to know that I place my will above His.

Certainly I suggested you're preempting it by your insistence. How am I in error?


Originally posted by NarrowGate
So not only are you judging me, but you are also wrongly bordering on judging God.

I will admit that your posts have given me pause and by extension concern to the point of judgment insofar as it concerns me. I don't for a second presume to gainsay the judgment of the Almighty and I would appreciate it if you'd point out where it is you think I have.

It was the furthest thing from my mind.


Originally posted by NarrowGate
Do you claim to have a perfect understanding of His will and what He taught us? Or would you like to rethink this statement?

Can any human? I most assuredly don't. I just take umbrage with those who seem to think they do.

Fitz



posted on Jan, 19 2013 @ 05:09 PM
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reply to post by Fitzgibbon
 


Ok first off, what does for your sake mean? Then I will respond to the rest. BTW, curious - what is your take on the 1st commandment? You seem to take judge not so literally at least in theory (not application). What about having no false God's in front of God?

ETA YOU claimed to know His will, and to know that I am contradicting it and following my own will, and past that you claimed to know that you are following His will.
edit on 19-1-2013 by NarrowGate because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 19 2013 @ 05:17 PM
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Originally posted by NarrowGate

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon
Only that in this day and age, self-aggrandisement in all matters is the norm and all behaviour is at the mercy of the ego. I do my best to follow the instruction in the MM degree to do the good deed for the deed's own sake, something that is quite in line with my own regular intentions.

Fitz


True enough, but why should you allow societies foolish men to dictate your actions because you do not want to look like they do?

You presume that anyone is dictating actions that make me look foolish. You presume much

I dress myself in the Masonic apron twice a month (and more in the last few years) and go to work in the quarry to refine my morals in the company of like-minded workmen.


Originally posted by NarrowGate
Still, you are assuming that behavior is at the mercy of the ego because it is what you see.

I can only speak for my own personal experience. I've seen nothing to disabuse me of this impression


Originally posted by NarrowGate
It is not for me, but it is for many. We should discuss things how they really are, the way we know them to be, and not worry about who it makes us look like.

I'm glad for you. From your own description, you are exceptional; most of us aren't. I only speak of my experience. YMMV.

Fitz



posted on Jan, 19 2013 @ 05:22 PM
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Originally posted by NarrowGate
Uh...seriously? So as long as a religion claims to be peaceful it must be of God? Satan never appears as the angel of light? Or more specifically - appears to be benevolent?????
I only speak for actions I've seen myself. When a man acts as righteously as I would act, on this plane how is he different than me?


Originally posted by NarrowGate
I judge right when I tell you - you are not there yet.

In your opinion. You'll appreciate that it's not your opinion that really matters at the end of the day?

Fitz



posted on Jan, 19 2013 @ 05:34 PM
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Originally posted by NarrowGate
reply to post by Fitzgibbon
 


Ok first off, what does for your sake mean? Then I will respond to the rest.


Well, having to dig back to the original statement, it was "Which is entirely up to you. For your sake, I hope you are not incorrect" in response to you saying "I am only judging what you have said - and rightly to my knowledge." I'm only hoping that for the sake of your immortal soul, you're correct. In future, when quoting how about you use the quote function or at least go to the trouble of saying 'In post xxxx, you said...." Makes it much easier to follow your train of though


Originally posted by NarrowGate
BTW, curious - what is your take on the 1st commandment? You seem to take judge not so literally at least in theory (not application). What about having no false God's in front of God?


Very simple, really. I don't assume that from the drop of a hat, he who doesn't drop the word God is not worshipping God. I look to actions rather than words. It's been such a cluster**** since the Tower of Babel.


Originally posted by NarrowGate
YOU claimed to know His will, and to know that I am contradicting it and following my own will, and past that you claimed to know that you are following His will.

I can only claim to be following His Will as I understand it and as has been imparted to me. I believe what I have been told and hope that my actions on this plane will preserve my immortal soul.

I may be unpleasantly surprised. However, I will bend to the Will of His judgment; in that much I have trust

Fitz



posted on Jan, 19 2013 @ 05:59 PM
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Originally posted by Fitzgibbon

Originally posted by NarrowGate
reply to post by Fitzgibbon
 


Ok first off, what does for your sake mean? Then I will respond to the rest.


Well, having to dig back to the original statement, it was "Which is entirely up to you. For your sake, I hope you are not incorrect" in response to you saying "I am only judging what you have said - and rightly to my knowledge." I'm only hoping that for the sake of your immortal soul, you're correct. In future, when quoting how about you use the quote function or at least go to the trouble of saying 'In post xxxx, you said...." Makes it much easier to follow your train of though


Originally posted by NarrowGate
BTW, curious - what is your take on the 1st commandment? You seem to take judge not so literally at least in theory (not application). What about having no false God's in front of God?


Very simple, really. I don't assume that from the drop of a hat, he who doesn't drop the word God is not worshipping God. I look to actions rather than words. It's been such a cluster**** since the Tower of Babel.


Originally posted by NarrowGate
YOU claimed to know His will, and to know that I am contradicting it and following my own will, and past that you claimed to know that you are following His will.

I can only claim to be following His Will as I understand it and as has been imparted to me. I believe what I have been told and hope that my actions on this plane will preserve my immortal soul.

I may be unpleasantly surprised. However, I will bend to the Will of His judgment; in that much I have trust

Fitz



The Word you speak of is not called "god", that is His title (God) another of His titles is Lord. His name is Jesus.

Why would my immortal soul be in any more danger now than it was before? I am a poor sinner, who has lost faith on more than one occasion. Although I never stopped believing, I have lost faith and that has nothing to do with trust.I am trying to live like Jesus, and so far I have failed in that task. And you?

I must apologize Fitz, I will not be able to continue this conversation tonight past this post due to a phone call I just received (if you wouldn't mind asking Jesus to help the sick one who called me, I would appreciate it), but I will try to remember to come back and respond to all of your points tomorrow that I do not get to today. In all honesty I am not going anywhere, but I will not be able to focus enough to continue our discussion. This is due to my lack of faith more than my current emotions. A couple things I saw here I must respond to right away though.



posted on Jan, 19 2013 @ 06:02 PM
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reply to post by Fitzgibbon
 


It is not that I am exceptional and most of us aren't. It is that I am trying to follow God's Law, and most aren't.


When I was talking about dictating actions I was not referring to Masonry. I was referring to the way we act when discussing things.
edit on 19-1-2013 by NarrowGate because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 19 2013 @ 06:11 PM
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Originally posted by NarrowGate
reply to post by Fitzgibbon
 


The Word you speak of is not called "god", that is His title (God) another of His titles is Lord. His name is Jesus.


Uh....where exactly did I use the lower case "g" in the word god? I seem to recall it being capital "G" God, His name. Jesus is the Son of God, part of the Holy Trinity (at least in my faith; yours may differ for which I will not take you to task upon)


Originally posted by NarrowGate
Why would my immortal soul be in any more danger now than it was before? I am a poor sinner, who has lost faith on more than one occasion. Although I never stopped believing, I have lost faith and that has nothing to do with trust.I am trying to live like Jesus, and so far I have failed in that task. And you?


Much the same. I just don't presume to have the answers known to the Almighty; that doesn't seem to be an issue for you


Originally posted by NarrowGate
I must apologize Fitz, I will not be able to continue this conversation tonight past this post due to a phone call I just received (if you wouldn't mind asking Jesus to help the sick one who called me, I would appreciate it), but I will try to remember to come back and respond to all of your points tomorrow that I do not get to today. In all honesty I am not going anywhere, but I will not be able to focus enough to continue our discussion. This is due to my lack of faith more than my current emotions. A couple things I saw here I must respond to right away though.


A bientot

Fitz



posted on Jan, 19 2013 @ 06:15 PM
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Originally posted by NarrowGate
reply to post by Fitzgibbon
 


It is not that I am exceptional and most of us aren't. It is that I am trying to follow God's Law, and most aren't.


I'm sorry you feel that way. Maybe the people of your acquaintance differ from those of mine. In my personal experience, we're all trying to follow His law; accomplishment is secondary to the attempt.

Fitz




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