Ok, who can prove magic exists?

LOL! No I'm not threatening you.

Unlike LadyV I will bring hell up on you with a candle spell.

Just kiddin, I learned my lesson.

On the phyical plane I got what I asked for and also suffered a great bit for messing with the free will. My belief!

I was just using the birthday candle as an example of wish spells.

I get your point with the penny and the star but the candle is a greater practiced form of majic.




Again this is just my belief.

[edit on 22-10-2004 by evecasino]

Originally posted by evecasino
On the phyical plane I got what I asked for and also suffered a great bit for messing with the free will. My belief!

But yet again, I'll just ask...

What happened to you on the physical plane that you asked for, and in what form did the retribution for it take? Can you just tell me what happened when you cast this spell?

Originally posted by evecasino

I get your point with the penny and the star but the candle is a greater practiced form of majic.

I would like to point out that just because alot of people do it doesn't mean it actually works.

Originally posted by evecasino
I get your point with the penny and the star but the candle is a greater practiced form of majic.

How about this...

Say a man lives to be 50 years old. On every one of his birthdays he makes a wish and blows out the candles. Out of the 50 blows, how many times will his wish come true?

You're sun sight, Libra, Cancer, Virgo, etc...is but a very small part of a ready....it is very complicated. There are 12 houses for each of the 12 signs...Astrological signs are categorized by their ancient, elemental identities of fire (spirit & energy), air (intellect & communication), water (emotion & nurture) and earth (material things & security). Each sign is also identified by its quality, that is whether it is cardinal (creative), fixed (determined) or mutable (changeable) in character. There are squares, nodes, conjunctions, there is the ascendant......it's not something you just jump into and learn...it takes study.

Now as to astrology and your religion. Deuteronomy 4:19 condemns the worship of the Sun or Moon or stars. The practice of Astrology does not imply the "worship" of heavenly bodies. Astrology is, in fact, "neutral" when it comes to believing in any particular religious philosophy, or not. You can practice Astrology and be a Christian or Jew or Muslim or Hindu - or an agnostic or an atheist.
Psalms 19:1-3, �The heavens declare the glory of God. The skies proclaim the work of his hands. Day after day they pour forth speech. Night after night they display knowledge. There is no speech or language where their voice is not heard.�
Is.47:13-14Let now the astrologers, the stargazers, the monthly prognosticators, stand up, and save thee from these things that shall come upon thee. Behold, they shall be as stubble; the fire shall burn them; they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame: there shall not be a coal to warm at, nor fire to sit before it.
And to Palmistry Isaiah 49.16 "Behold, I have inscribed you on the palms of My hands; Your walls are continually before Me.
Proverbs- 3:16- length of days is in her right hand; and in her left hand riches and honor.
Job-37: 7- He sealeth up the hand of every man; that all men may know his work.

Originally posted by DeltaChaos


How about this...

Say a man lives to be 50 years old. On every one of his birthdays he makes a wish and blows out the candles. Out of the 50 blows, how many times will his wish come true?

It doesn't work that why. It's to do with emotional intent, and directing the energy. Some people do this naturally with hardly any effort....just wishing isn't going to make it happen...it's the emotional intent, and directing the energy raised where you want it. I'm trying very hard here to explain...what is almost impossible to explain to someone that may not really want to grasp it, or that can not grasp it...I am not in any way implying anything about anyone's intellect here....but it is a concept that one will grasp, or not. Now I have to go watch CSI...but I'll be back

Like I said on the other thread where I brought the wrath of all Wiccan ATS members upon me for merely questioning...


Kings used to use astrologers to predict conditions so that they could rule their land and people more efficiently. Leaders no longer do this. Why? Because they were more consistently wrong than they were right. Not only that, but when the leader made an importand decision based on the astrologer's incorrect information, they would be killed.

No, that psuedo-science has no practical application, because the information is a vague supposition based on vague factors.

Do you read your horoscope every day. If one were to read their horoscope every day of their life, what are the chances that the information was correct? Now, what are the chances of the horoscope being the same in 20 different newspapers. I know, newspaper horoscopes aren't real. That's a given, but it has the same effect.

If you find 100 people that were born at 5:23PM May 31, 1974 and examined their lives, why would their lives be so dissimilar in so many ways if astrology could be trusted as a real science?

The bottom line is that these psuedo-sciences are labeled such because they cannot produce redundant results. Therefore, the theories, and the hypotheses on which they are based are untrue.

Actually, newspaper horoscopes are so general that seem to be able to apply to just about anyone, I mean, they're just a fun little diversion, like crossword puzzles.

Maybe I shouldn't have used birthday candle but I was trying to make you see the association with it. Have you ever seen the movie Liar Liar?

Anyway... I'd rather not say exactly what it was I summoned but let's say for an example (By the way I am a male) that I asked for a redhead 5'11 140lbs wealthy bla bla bla, and with no effort on my part this exact person comes into my life in a very short period of time from the start of the spell. Less then a month.


Coincidence? OK Let's say that I added something additional in like she couldn't bear children or she was totally against having any.
Or better then that she spoke with a sweet irish accent and was fluent in many languages .

Still a coincidence?

Now as an example of what I suffered that after a period I became very bored of this person but could not anyway shake her from my life bar murdering her. Remember this is only an example.

What I got I believed in before I received and I got it with a consequence.
I did nothing mundane to receive my asking and this is the reason I believe I received it through energy.

Thats the best way I can explain it for you.

Originally posted by DeltaChaos
Why is there no proof on record that these things exist?

There is no point in trying to proove anything of this nature to you or anyone like you because if it was in front of you - you wouldn't believe it anyway.

Seriously. And I am just like you. If I hadn't had my own experiences I wouldn't believe it myself.

Horoscopes and candle majic can not be compared unless you are creating your own horoscope from what you read in the stars and planets.

Although moon phase was an important part of what I did.

Originally posted by evecasino
Maybe I shouldn't have used birthday candle but I was trying to make you see the association with it. Have you ever seen the movie Liar Liar?

Anyway... I'd rather not say exactly what it was I summoned but let's say for an example (By the way I am a male) that I asked for a redhead 5'11 140lbs wealthy bla bla bla, and with no effort on my part this exact person comes into my life in a very short period of time from the start of the spell. Less then a month.


Coincidence? OK Let's say that I added something additional in like she couldn't bear children or she was totally against having any.
Or better then that she spoke with a sweet irish accent and was fluent in many languages .

Still a coincidence?

Now as an example of what I suffered that after a period I became very bored of this person but could not anyway shake her from my life bar murdering her. Remember this is only an example.

What I got I believed in before I received and I got it with a consequence.
I did nothing mundane to receive my asking and this is the reason I believe I received it through energy.

Thats the best way I can explain it for you.

That's a good explanation, but there is no way in hell you could convince me that you could actually summon this person. Unless you did it. Which you won't. Because you can't. Am I wrong?

Originally posted by AngelaLadyS
Seriously. And I am just like you. If I hadn't had my own experiences I wouldn't believe it myself.

But my point is this. Why cannot you write these observations and experiences down on a piece of paper so that they could be compared with and corroborated by testimony of other witnesses, thereby lending credibility to the claim?

Why has no one done this. It is my assumption that this has not happened in two-thousand years of contemporary humanity because it actually has not happened.

People who attest to the existence of this magic have said nothing other than 'I don't want to relay my personal experiences', and 'if you don't see it, it's because you aren't ready, or you aren't enlightened in some way'.

I say, if you see it, it is only because it is what you want to see, barring any factual basis in reality.

Again, magic is nothing more than a self-entertaining delusion. Another condition of faith for faith's sake.

[edit on 22-10-2004 by DeltaChaos]

What I did was for my own benefit and not to prove something to anyone in science or other fields.

I really don't know why I even added to this thread.

There is a reason why we were given the ability to believe and that is all I can suggest.

If I wanted to do it again I am sure that I could but am not willing to suffer the repercussions.

Belief or disbelief the choice is yours. It's your free will and I won't change it.

At least not without a good 7 day candle.

What's funny is that it seems so simple just to provide some indication that magic actually happens. Yet everyone vehemently refuses to show some scrap of evidence that it exists and simply states that If I don't believe then I'm wrong.

It really isn't too much to ask for evidence of what you state is fact.

I have a question for a non believer.
What kind of proof would you need?

I did'nt say that you were wrong because you don't believe.

I said the choice is yours. There are many things in our life that cannot be explained but all we can do is agree or disagree with the reason.

I wish I could give you a better stand on it but I'm sorry thats the best I can do.

Wait a second I don't wish.

Originally posted by AngelaLadyS
I have a question for a non believer.
What kind of proof would you need?

A simple test with repeatable results, like in science class.

Example:

You cast spell A, which causes result B, and repeat. If the results are the same consistently, then the magic spell works. Then we can work on the why.

I mean, if people are casting these spells anyway, why can't anyone watch? And why doesn't anyone report having witnessed it. If something is real, then there are people who observe it? If no one has observed it, then how can it be known to be real?



[edit on 22-10-2004 by DeltaChaos]

I have tried to the best of my ability to help you understand, I can't do any more. You have to open your mind for it. It's funny to me Delta. You are a Christian...there is absolutely no proof of any of it, yet, you believe. I am not a liar and it upsets me that someone would think that I am...excerpt on this subject matter. It is something that we do not get upset by...we don't care if you, or anyone, doesn't believe us...it's just not important to us.....what's important is what we know in our heart. This is our religion, we feel about it just like you do yours....it is not here to put on shows to people that do not believe and do not even approve of "us". I have done my best here to explain in a patient, intelligent manner. I can't do or give any more than I have.

Here is a question for a non believer.
A person is laying in a hospital bed, dies, the doctors hook him/her to machines to keep the heart beating and the lungs working in wait for being a donor...

In the above seneiro, the person is dead but the body is being kept functional to preserve it for future harvest. If you do not believe in the metaphysical, I assume you therefore believe that the person is actualy still alive because the blood is moving and being oxygenated. Is this correct?

I come to this conclution, deducting logicaly, that you would not believe a metaphysical thing, in this case a life force, energy or spirit that lives seperate from the physical body would be in charge of the life of this body.