Ok, who can prove magic exists?, page 3
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reply posted on 22-10-2004 @ 07:24 PM by DeltaChaos
Originally posted by AngelaLadyS
Here is a question for a non believer.
A person is laying in a hospital bed, dies, the doctors hook him/her to machines to keep the heart beating and the lungs working in wait for being a donor...

In the above seneiro, the person is dead but the body is being kept functional to preserve it for future harvest. If you do not believe in the metaphysical, I assume you therefore believe that the person is actualy still alive because the blood is moving and being oxygenated. Is this correct?


This is correct.

I come to this conclution, deducting logicaly, that you would not believe a metaphysical thing, in this case a life force, energy or spirit that lives seperate from the physical body would be in charge of the life of this body.


I don't believe that the energy within the body is metaphysical. I believe it is very real. Not a spirit, per se, but rather a very subtle resonance wave caused by the trillions of tiny electro-chemical impulses taking place in our body at all times. I believe that if there is a subtle problem, such as a sore neck, that the disturbance can cause a change in the flow of this subtle energy, which in turn causes other subtle problems.

I have studied accupressure, and I have witness to the results of that, I have used accupuncture, which produced results. I also know many people who have enjoyed the same results as I.

As far as the projection of this energy, as in Qi Gong, I'm still skeptical. I haven't seen results of anyone projecting their Qi into the world outside them.

Body energy is not a metaphysical concept. It is a physical phenomenon that will one day be scientifically explained.

And then we'll have a psychic evolution.





reply posted on 22-10-2004 @ 08:33 PM by AngelaLadyS
>Angela wrote:
Here is a question for a non believer.
A person is laying in a hospital bed, dies, the doctors hook him/her to machines to keep the heart beating and the lungs working in wait for being a donor...
In the above seneiro, the person is dead but the body is being kept functional to preserve it for future harvest. If you do not believe in the metaphysical, I assume you therefore believe that the person is actualy still alive because the blood is moving and being oxygenated. Is this correct?

>Your reply:
This is correct.


****REALLY ?!?!?! You really believe that a dead person who has, after death, been hooked to machines to pump oxygenated blood, constitutes a living person?
Wow. I guess I can't really continue with this line of thought with you then. I have no desire to change your mind, but I really thought you'd see that differently. I have no where to take this from here.

>Continue, Angela wrote:
I come to this conclution, deducting logicaly, that you would not believe a metaphysical thing, in this case a life force, energy or spirit that lives seperate from the physical body would be in charge of the life of this body.



>You said:
Body energy is not a metaphysical concept. It is a physical phenomenon that will one day be scientifically explained.
And then we'll have a psychic evolution.

***I'm sorry. This is unacceptable. You may choose ONE answer. You may not say on one hand that something does not exist, then, when given an example that nothing else will answer tell me that it is an exception.



reply posted on 22-10-2004 @ 09:11 PM by Paul_Richard
DC,

All you need to do is start investigating various healing modalities and people with telekinetic gifts.

The reason why magick cannot be repeated all the time in the laboratory is simply because it does not come from the body but from Spirit. When you are not the one who turns the juice on and off you can't have it available one-hundred percent of the time.

Uri Geller, the Israeli telekinetic, was tested extensively in the laboratory. Most of the time he did indeed have the Gift of Telekinesis. But when he was on tour the power wasn't always there for him and he was eventually exposed to have a device up his sleeve to duplicate his Gift -- when the juice wasn't there and he was expected to perform in front of a live audience.

Does that make him a fake? Hardly. It only means that he is not the source of the power. This he openly admitted. Sometimes it is there and sometimes it is not.

But Geller is only one example. There are lots of people around the world that have healing and/or telekinetic Gifts. The "illusionist" David Blaine got his own television documentary (called Street Magic) because he freaked out a bigwig television producer with his levitation trick right in the high-rise office. No wires, no devices. The reason why you don't see hundreds of magicians around the world duplicating Blaine's card teleportation and levitation tricks is simply because they are not tricks at all, as he genuinely has a Gift of Telekinesis -- which of course he won't admit to. Why should he? He became a millionaire early in life because of it. How many sleight of hand magicians in their twenties can claim that?

Funny how we never see any magician anywhere in the world duplicate Blaine’s sidewalk levitation trick. Don’t you think that if veteran illusionists that have been at it for decades more than Blaine could do the same thing, that they would flock to do so? Of course they would. The reason why they don't is simply because they can't.

I have personally witnessed a number of telekinetic/magick feats in my life.

One of them was when I saw The Amazing Kreskin live onstage at a local nightclub in the 1990s. He asked for college rings from the audience and then put them on a ringsizer. He then said, "Sometimes this works and sometimes it doesn't." This was a "red flag" that he wasn't the source of the power. He made a few twists of the rings on the sizer and Voila! They were all linked together. He then took them off the sizer and had them passed around the audience so that people could confirm that their thick, college rings were indeed attached together like a chain.

Meanwhile, yours truly, as a spiritual medium and one who is very psychically sensitive to telekinetic energies, became physically ill and dizzy. Kreskin didn’t need to prove anything. I knew exactly what was happening.

Kreskin then took the rings back, put them back on the sizer, made a few more twists, and then took them off one at a time and handed them back to each applicable member of the audience.

Another person you want to check out is Sai Baba of India. He is a sexual predator of young men and boys at his ashram but decades ago, he had genuine Gifts of magick and telekinesis that blew millions of people away. Pilgrims would come back from his ashram with this glazed look over their face. A plethora of books and videos have been written about this guy. If he was only a sleight of hand phony he would not have literally thousands of people show up at his ashram on a daily basis. His gifts have lessened through the years because he has abused the privilege.

However, back around the mid Twentieth Century, he was phenomenal. They used to refer to Baba as “The Christ of India” because he could duplicate every miracle attributed to Jesus of Nazareth.

One example...

Crowds outside his ashram would be given a bowl of rice, candy, whatever, to pass around. People would take handfuls of the stuff and the bowl literally would not empty! There are credible witnesses that confirmed this.

Another example...

There was the case when Sai Baba told his chef at his ashram that he was going to take his entourage for a walk, that he shouldn't cook anything, and to go with them. The ashram was abandoned. Then they came back to the kitchen to find steaming, hot food in the cafeteria style trays! No cook, no caterer, no people anywhere to prepare it!

Sai Baba also has been known to perform many healings and to create candy as well as small objects for people, like rings and other items of jewelry. He would walk up to a devotee and say, "Who do you worship?" They might say, "Jesus" and he would wave his hand in the air and come up with a cross on a necklace. Sleight of hand? Maybe. But how about when he creates a ring for someone, they put it on, tell him that it doesn’t fit right, and then, get this: Baba touches the ring on the person’s finger and it instantly becomes the right size! Sleight of hand? I highly doubt it. The man had a genuine telekinetic/magickal Gift.

The world if full of minor miracles of magick and telekinesis. You only have to do the research, be objective, and keep your eyes and ears open to learn of them.




[edit on 23-10-2004 by Paul_Richard]


reply posted on 22-10-2004 @ 10:28 PM by AngelaLadyS
Originally posted by DeltaChaos
Originally posted by AngelaLadyS
****REALLY ?!?!?! You really believe that a dead person who has, after death, been hooked to machines to pump oxygenated blood, constitutes a living person?
Wow. I guess I can't really continue with this line of thought with you then. I have no desire to change your mind, but I really thought you'd see that differently. I have no where to take this from here.


What? Respiration transpires, blood is oxygenated, blood flows to cells, cells receive nutrients and oxygen from blood, cells continue to live.

Life continues... How could I see it differently?

***I'm sorry. This is unacceptable. You may choose ONE answer. You may not say on one hand that something does not exist, then, when given an example that nothing else will answer tell me that it is an exception.


I don't understand what is unacceptable about this. What did I say did not exist? I do not believe that the subtle energy that is created through chemical-electrical processes is a 'life-force'. Nor do I believe that it is somehow separate from the body. It is an integral part of it. I don't believe it's spirit, you believe it's spirit. I never made this assertion.

It's a biofeedback loop. That is all.

[edit on 22-10-2004 by DeltaChaos]



I'm so floored by this I have to say it again, in a different way - just to check and see if your answer stays the same.
So...
A dead guy. He's dead right?
Then, after he's dead, a doctor comes in and says "Hey Joe, he's been dead less than 5 minutes, hook him up to the machine here and we'll take his heart."
So Joes hooks the DEAD GUY to the machine.
Now, as far as I'm concerned.... we have dead guy hooked to a machine.
You think that dead guy hooked to machine becomes alive guy once they turn the machine on. Is this correct? Are you sure your reading this right?


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