Ok, who can prove magic exists?, page 5

DC,

Originally posted by DeltaChaos
Paul Richard,

Ok, now we're getting somewhere. Finally someone can actually attest to these things actually having happened. A television show or a stage isn't the best place to study these phenomena. I think that if these people can do these things at all, even if intermittently, they should be tested in controlled settings.

Actually, controlled testing has already been conducted with a number of people like
Matthew Manning and Uri Geller.

I quote:

<< To support his conclusion that Uri Geller's metal bending and breaking were truly paranormal, Dr. A.R.G. Owen notes that out of the many metal objects present in a room where he was tested "the objects - a fork and two keys - which were bent or divided were ones that my wife and I had brought, we knew their condition right up to the moment when Uri's presentation commenced. The nature of the objects was also so highly individual that there was no possibility of anyone having substituted like, but prepared, objects, for them without the substitution having been subsequently detected. Thus from the viewpoint of my wife and myself the presentation constituted an experiment in which beyond reasonable doubt Mr. Geller's metal phenomena were genuine and paranormal." >>

Originally posted by DeltaChaos
Hypotheses developed as to why these things may be possible, and retested to qualify or falsify assumptions. Develop a theory and prove it. Then, with what we learn, consider it science, improve it and make great things happen.

Study this subject long enough and you eventually realize that science can neither duplicate magick/telekinesis nor improve upon it. Even the Zetan-aliens, with their superior technology cannot manifest telekinesis. They can mimic it with their antigravity technology, (i.e., the green beam), which has been reported by eyewitnesses (like helicopter pilots), but they can�t actually manifest true telekinesis with their advanced machines.

Originally posted by DeltaChaos
Of course there would obviously be antagonists who would no doubt attempt to block the study and development of this science, as they always have. Most currently with stem-cell research.

For many people, the moral question of stem-cell research is not the advancement of science, it is the methods involved. "The ends do not justify the means." Stem-cells must be obtained from nearly or totally developed fetuses (we�re talking babies) in order for them to be useful in research. A five or six month developed fetus is actually more of a living baby. It�s been known for a long time (they even had a documentary out on it years ago) that aborted fetuses in abortion clinics are sold to cosmetic companies. In that documentary (which a family member of mine saw) they even showed a medical assistant wring the neck of an aborted baby in order to kill it (sic).

Is murdering babies justification for the advancement of science?

Only if you are spiritually retarded.

So here's the moral question...

If we go ahead with stem-cell research, does it result in more fully developed or near fully developed babies being murdered in abortion clinics?

You bet it does!

Scientific research has to be kept on a short leash. Without strict controls, many but not all scientists will stoop to unbelievably callous methods -- making them no better than the Zetan-Greys that use many of us as laboratory animals. All in the name of science of course.

In order to have a healthy society, it is important that we don�t indulge the spiritually challenged.

Originally posted by DeltaChaos
I can believe that a phenomena may not be able to be reproduced by a person consistently, but I believe there's a good reason. I don't believe that reason could be because some unseen spiritual force is arbitrarily allowing it. If it is being done by a person, then the person is doing it.

Gifts of the Spirit are from the Other Side. That is why they are called that and not Gifts of the Brain. The inability to control telekinesis or even turn it on and off at will directly indicates that the source of the energy does not originate from the body or person but from outside. If one harbors the prejudice that spirits and higher dimensions don't exist (the dialectical materialistic mindset which is prevalent in the scientific community), then sure, other explanations will be furthered as to how it works.

Sigmund Freud did not believe in life after death, spirits, and higher planes. So his entire paradigm on dreams being the product of the brain was the end result. My experience as a spiritual medium has brought me to a much different conclusion. When the body sleeps at night, it becomes more receptive to telepathic messages from Spirit; these messages are often clothed in symbolism. We do not create our dreams with our brains. They are given to us from discarnates. In other words, all dreams are channeled. This understanding is in stark contrast to the Freudian paradigm; a paradigm that was developed with the bias that spirits and higher dimensions don�t exist.

Near Death Experience research has a similar situation. People have gone to great lengths to explain that NDEs are caused by chemical reactions in dying brains. The fact that many people who have had an NDE described people and conversations and events that they could not possibly have known about unless they actually left their body is completely irrelevant to those researchers. Oh yeah, proof positive is irrelevant if you are harboring a prejudiced perspective! But if you are truly objective, you learn that there really is something resembling a soul and that it can indeed exist outside of the physical body and that it does precisely that after brain death.

[edit on 23-10-2004 by Paul_Richard]