Treated like "A caged animal" Bradley Manning Wikileaks Hearing.

Originally posted by projectvxn
Yeah that's called jail moron. (not you op)

I hope they make an example of this traitor.

I know on ATS violating your oath of enlistment is a cool thing to do. You people only care about oaths when it benefits your cause and could care less about it when whatever wrong was committed is a means to your end.

edit on 30-11-2012 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)

Having served my country, I think my opinion on this case matters somewhat. You are absolutely and totally incorrect. See, you think that being a good American means keeping your mouth shut and doing what you are told, whether or not what you are doing is wrong or not. The information that Manning released gave American citizens a picture of what was going on over there. This information was not being told by anyone else, and it needed to be. When your government is doing illegal things, someone must speak up, like Manning did.

And the only way he could prove his case was to leak documents, as no one would have believed him otherwise. You see, the American military is controlled by the government, and the government is controlled by the American citizens, and there are rules they must follow, even in times of war. They were not following those rules, but apparently you think that is okay, but it is not. Not at all. Our Founding Fathers built this country on good old fashioned republican democracy, and this means that our leaders are not allowed to overstep their bounds, even if the majority of those they are mistreating are non-citizens.

So you need to rethink your misguided allegiance, because blind allegiance is just plain stupid, and that is how totalitarian regimes get away with so much evil. America is slowly becoming what these types of states were in the past and are right now in places all over the world. And to make matters worse, America likes to portray that their government is fighting from a position of moral superiority, which is just disgusting considering all of the things that have gone on. Things we never would have known about had it not been for Bradley Manning. So calling him a traitor is not justified, because blind allegiance is not justified. Anyone who would disagree with that statement has no moral compass or sense of right and wrong, and does not understand the ideals that America was founded on.

reply to post by JiggyPotamus


Said like a true patriotic soldier
soldiers like you are the real heroes

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by The0nlytruth

 

What he did was wrong. The wrongs committed by others does not justify the wrongs he committed.

Didn't your mother teach you that two wrongs don't make a right?

Two wrongs don't make a right, but three do. What he did was wrong in jeopordizing other lives on the US side. But what he did was right in trying to save lives by stopping the carnage. But, he still broke his contract which was the wrong thing do, there is no honor in going back on your word, find a different way. But then, he is learning by example, when did Obama ever keep his word? We have a dysfunctional society, one rule fits all or one rule fits none. If Manning must keep his word, so must Obama or your point is moot. If Manning needs to be punished and I expect he does, then Obama needs to resign yesterday and prep for breach of the social contract leading to this Manchurian candidate's alleged election and re-election.

Cheers - Dave

reply to post by JiggyPotamus


And you got all of that from my opinion of mannings actions?

Interesting.

By the way, since you obviously didn't bother to read the thread here's a few points you might have missed:

1. I am a soldier currently serving

2. I am all about jailing war criminals

3. I believe there is a right and wrong way to do these things. And since Manning had the same opportunities to deal with criminal activities found on classified information that I do, I can tell you that his method was wrong and in fact, treason. Instead of doing the right thing he decided to take matters into his own hands. That isn't the way to go because he didn't just expose criminality he exposed mission sensitive data as well as hurt and hampered civilian diplomatic affairs. I don't think he's a hero. I also don't think soldiers who kill civilians wantonly should be protected. But at the end of the day two wrongs do not make a right. Manning is exactly where he should be getting what's coming to him.

4. Do your opinions matter more because you're a soldier or because you're an expert at assumption, supposition, and exaggeration?

reply to post by JiggyPotamus

And the only way he could prove his case was to leak documents, as no one would have believed him otherwise. You see, the American military is controlled by the government, and the government is controlled by the American citizens, and there are rules they must follow, even in times of war. They were not following those rules, but apparently you think that is okay, but it is not. Not at all.

Like so many others you focus 100% exclusively on the military side of the crimes manning committed here. I'd still like to hear from anyone, and you have strong opinions so I'd ask you, where the State Department violation and release fits in? He didn't release wartime cables or things relating to Iraq, Afghan and the NATO Allied nations involved here. He released everything he could physically access ....and as many note..he wasn't SUPPOSED to be able to access what he did at State. He broke his own access levels (Another crime he has been charged with, BTW) to get them.

So, if by some chance, a person can see their way past the treason of military release and betrayal....Manning still did immense damage to the world wide diplomatic efforts of the United States and other nations. THAT explanation is one I've never heard for justification....and would love to.

I love those ATS members who call Manning a traitor (you know the ones - they usually have a military themed avatar and are usually ex armed forces or serving, so will bend over backwards to defend the military establishment) for exposing the henious crimes of his country. The root of their argument is that he broke his oath.

He did what was right. The Founding Fathers would be rolling in their graves. So the United States can commit all kinds of crimes and do wrong yet it's all okay let's just ignore it because they swore an oath.

It reminds me of soldiers in Nazi Germany. It's the exact same attitude. These people have no backbone or guts, instead they turn a blind eye and just carry on regardless and somehow try to make some twisted reasoning for why it's acceptable. They should hang their heads in shame.

“He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it.” – Martin Luther King

Furthermore this article is worth reading:

Bradley Manning: A Tale of Liberty Lost in America

Whatever one thinks of Manning's alleged acts, he appears the classic whistleblower. This information could have been sold for substantial sums to a foreign government or a terror group. Instead he apparently knowingly risked his liberty to show them to the world because – he said when he believed he was speaking in private – he wanted to trigger "worldwide discussion, debates, and reforms".

Compare this aggressive prosecution of Manning to the Obama administration's vigorous efforts to shield Bush-era war crimes and massive Wall Street fraud from all forms of legal accountability. Not a single perpetrator of those genuine crimes has faced court under Obama, a comparison that reflects the priorities and values of US justice.

reply to post by Kram09


Yes Im just like a Nazi. I turn a blind eye to war crimes.



Is it even remotely possible that I may have some knowledge and experience that I am attempting to use to paint a picture for those of you who are ignorant of how the Army handles these things?

No. Instead we are just war criminal Nazis.

Hyperbole. Supposition. Exaggeration.

Manning would never have been able to release the Collateral Murder video of Reuters employees deaths via 'protocol' / 'official channels'

The corporation Thomson Reuters had requested the video from the US under FOIA, but was denied the release.

Try to come up with a convincing reasoning for that, it proves there is censors in place, because of selective legal and political interpretations

reply to post by projectvxn


It's not an exaggeration at all. It's perhaps a little too close to the bone.

Let's pretend for a second that you were in Manning's position. Let's say you were aware of crimes committed by your government. What would you do to bring them to light? What lengths would you go to?

Also please can you explain to us the procedure involved in such matters? Rather than calling us ignorant perhaps you could elaborate.

It's too bad that he is punished for having a conscience. All governments lack integrity and don't give a damn about regular folks. There is no government on this Earth that isn't corrupt.

I found a few interesting links regarding the subject. It's interesting how they all connect:

rt.com...

yro.slashdot.org... /12/11/30/1416227/bradley-manning-wikileaks-source-given-hearing-after-2-years-in-jail

www.cio.com... ITU_Taking_Over_the_Internet_Warns_the_European_Parliament

www.dtic.mil...

reply to post by Kram09

Also please can you explain to us the procedure involved in such matters? Rather than calling us ignorant perhaps you could elaborate.

Also - I'm not saying you will - but please don't post a link and expect us to read through pages of dry text.

If you are as well informed as you make yourself out to be then you should be able to set it out for us.

reply to post by WhereIsTheBatman


This post was not off topic. It was in reply to another poster.

reply to post by WhereIsTheBatman


Furthermore whichever mod is responsible you didn't even give a warning. Poor moderation indeed....

The responses in this thread from military personnel have really illustrated to me exactly why the US military has been utilized as corporate and financial hit-men for the past 30 years. Absolutely amazing. And people think that when the time comes military will refuse to turn their weapons upon their own citizens due to some sense of morality. Really gives new meaning to "just following orders."

reply to post by Kram09


I already have. In this thread actually.

That is all I will say anymore here.

All you people wanna do is call others Nazis and all manner of disrespect for no reason.

Click here for more information.

reply to post by projectvxn

You go to your chain of command until you get to the commanding general. If that doesn't work you go to CID. They WILL do something about it. After you go to CID, go across the road to the IG. They'll wanna know why things aren't being handled at company or battalion levels.

People will go to jail. They WILL be fired.
And they will do so in a manner that doesn't destroy mission essential information.

You have to be in the military to understand. There is a way to handle stuff like this. War Crimes are covered up only when no one decides to do anything about it.

If I were PFC Manning I would be making official statements and filing official charges. Not betraying my country and everyone who wears my uniform to look like a hero to ignorant people on the internet.

You are correct. Why do you think some soldiers don't decide to do anything and do you honestly think there is every any possibility of a cover-up occuring, particularly in the upper echelons?