Treated like "A caged animal" Bradley Manning Wikileaks Hearing.

reply to post by projectvxn


I was in the Marines and witnessed many corrupt actions of our great leaders. The greater the power the greater the temptation. Scummy people always sicken me.

You have a nice day in your idealistic world. We all live in them but in mine I don't suck the tit of evil so willingly.

It's interesting watching this thread because I don't even hear the Military people and Vets suggesting Manning would have been entirely wrong had he taken specific incidents and material specific to them to make public in a way that highlighted actual criminal events.

One of his first leaks he was apparently proud of was the gun camera footage of the Baghdad street being shot up while the guys made jokes. That was a leak that I can respect. He knew what he had, what it meant and what it was doing to leak it.

It's this part where he burned the whole database of action and tactical reports.....of interest to the enemy...during said shooting war...on the ENTIRE theater of operation on two fronts. Now unless we want to suggest that every single man in Uniform is a criminal (In which case I don't even want to hear those folks say "Support The Troops" in any context...no matter what happens again.. No hypocrisy), he burned the guilty and innocent alike.

That doesn't even touch 260,000 (His number by his own words in chat logs referenced earlier in the thread) State Dept cables stretching across 30+ YEARS. What part of leaking those served any common good? It ruined the only alternative that exists outside war.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Pretty much sums it up wabbit. He tossed the baby out with the bath water. Then again, going through all that information would be too tedious for just one man :p

Originally posted by StrangeOldBrew
The responses in this thread from military personnel have really illustrated to me exactly why the US military has been utilized as corporate and financial hit-men for the past 30 years. Absolutely amazing. And people think that when the time comes military will refuse to turn their weapons upon their own citizens due to some sense of morality.

Really gives new meaning to "just following orders."

Indeed. That's why one of my replies has been censored. I just referred to a phrase of Bill Hicks.

Dissent is the highest form of patriotism. Howard Zinn

Manning saw repulsive things and couldn't bring himself to blindly obey his masters. He felt responsible and wanted to act. The world should applaud people like him. He sacrificed his career, his well being and his entire life for his convictions and for following his conscience.

How does the government and a lot of people react? Right. Burn him.

With all the corrupt ones making the decisions and killing off people like Martin Luther King, we are heading for hell.

reply to post by WhereIsTheBatman


and my bet is Manning never thought in a million years he would get caught let alone know what the consequences of what the military would really do to him. He did'nt do this for moral reasons because even his own morality is in question simply because of his own sexuality and what that means.....

Manning had a big chip on his midget shoulder and a bone to grind with internal affairs of the Military and thats the only reason why he did what he did. Manning did it for spite.

reply to post by projectvxn

This isn't Hollywood, where you're going to have to break all the rules and play a damned spy game to get justice. The Army isn't homogeneous. There is independence in CID and IG. Their job is to police the Army. The only way that nothing would happen is if they were not involved. I guarantee that every crime that has been committed, that has gone unpunished, is a result of not letting CID, IG, and the MPs in on it.

Fair point, life isn't like the movies. But we're just asking for a moment to consider the posibility, even if you believe it to be very remote.

To me it seems that there's almost been a culture of turning a blind eye towards crimes committed in the armed forces. Very few higher ups have been held responsible or punished in an appropriate manner for things that have occured.

To me this persecution of Manning and Assange by the U.S. government is merely an attempt to make future whistleblowers think twice when considering exposing corruption or crimes. They will see what's happened to Manning and instead turn the other way and pretend they don't know.

There is a steady catalogue of crimes being amassed by the United States military...it's hard not to draw conclusions that some part of the establishment is either rotten or complicit.

To say every soldier is a walking murderer who just loves to go round slaughtering people is ignorant and wrong. But those people do exist as has quite clearly been shown during the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq - and they are causing their companions to be tarred with the same brush.

reply to post by The0nlytruth


Regardless, the guy is tough.

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by Kram09

 

If my command didn't do anything about it I would bring in external sources like CID, and IG.

edit on 1-12-2012 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)

The Inspector General is nothing but a huge bureaucratic joke.

Originally posted by mr-lizard
Seems some of the war monkeys on this thread are less arsed about the illegal use of weapons on innocents than they are about treason.

Shame on you.

Treason against his oath of office or treason against the traitors destroying the Constitution?

Originally posted by CALGARIAN
He's doing this for his country.. His people. Be proud.
This man will be in our childrens History books.

One of the most Patriotic moves since the the 1945.

edit on 30-11-2012 by CALGARIAN because: (no reason given)

He is no hero he took classified information and gave it to a foreign national. There is a proper way to handle things and he chose to act otherwise. He created diplomatic hardship for his nation, and helped foster an environment for terrorist organizations to recruit in. All of that being said I do think that he does deserve to be treated humanely while he is incarcerated. He is a human and whether he was right or wrong does deserve to be treated with a degree of dignity. He doesn't need a gilded cage but he shouldn't be made to rot in a box either.

reply to post by ChaoticOrder


I agree. But he will get punished because those who are guilty of those crimes sign his pay check.

reply to post by Bixxi3


I wouldn't surprised either. Cops shot at unarmed, peaceful civilians not too long ago. I don't see why the military would be any different.

reply to post by projectvxn


But what happens when those who give you the orders are cannibals themselves?

reply to post by Kram09


Sometimes I wonder if this is a forum for adults or a daycare center.

Originally posted by seeker1963
Is there any paticular reason you left out the most important oath that he took?? Like the one to the Constitution?

As you are the one who posted it I will explain the subtle differences between the enlisted oath and the oath of office for officers.

An enlisted Soldier is bound by his oath to defend the constitution yes but also bound to obey the lawful orders of the officers appointed over him. The order he disobeyed was the one to not disclose classified information to other than authorized personnel. This is even if that information might be something you think is illegal or against the laws of land warfare or in violation of any part of the constitution.

There is no provision in this agreement that allows for an exception that allows for the disclosure of information to anyone even if the information is something with which you personally disagree or even if that information is evidence of government wrongdoing:

1. Intending to be legally bound, I hereby accept the obligations contained in this Agreement in consideration of my being granted access to classified information.

www.archives.gov...

He had access to many other channels of complaint if he thought he had information that was evidence of government wrongdoing and/or violation of the law. The primary avenue was his Chain of Command.

As you indicated the oaths of office for commissioned officers is vastly different from that of the oath of enlistment. Lots of reasons for that primarily they are related to the source of their authority and the different levels of education and training received.

Officers are expected to challenge and interpret their orders and analyze their legality at all times and make sure that they are IAW the confines and spirit of the constitution and the UCMJ (the two often conflict BTW).

However, enlisted Soldiers are not held to the same standard nor are they given as much latitude in their interpretation for a reason. Education and training.

Officers are not bound to follow the orders of officers appointed over them if those orders are not constitutional - period. An enlisted Soldier still is bound unless the orders are unlawful. Unconstitutional and unlawful are not the same thing.

Brad violated his oath and the special agreement he signed when given access to classified information - period. That is why he is in a cage, otherwise known as a prison. That is where Soldiers who break the law and their oaths are sent pending trial.

Bradley is not a victim he is the perpetrator, he is an adult, he took the oath, and he signed the NDA which states...

4. I have been advised that any breach of this Agreement may result in the termination of any security clearances I hold; removal from any position of special confidence and trust requiring such clearances; or the termination of my employment or other relationships with the Departments or Agencies that granted my security clearance or clearances. In addition, I have been advised that any unauthorized disclosure of classified information by me may constitute a violation, or violations, of United States criminal laws, including the provisions of Sections 641, 793, 794, 798, *952 and 1924, Title 18, United States Code, * the provisions of Section 783(b), Title 50, United States Code, and the provisions of the Intelligence Identities Protection Act of 1982. I recognize that nothing in this Agreement constitutes a waiver by the United States of the right to prosecute me for any statutory violation.

www.archives.gov...

He knew the consequences of his actions - when given this form and the 45 minute briefing that is all spelled out for you. This is done each and every time you are assigned to a new unit or given a different level of access.

He is just a dip# kid who fancied himself a hero for disclosing information that made the US look bad. It’s fashionable and all the rage I understand in hipster culture.

As I recall he is also gay therefore he lied numerous times on all the enlistment and security clearance interviews and forms and therefore gained access to the classified information by means of fraud and deception. Which indicates to me he probably never had any intent to serve the country rather it was more likely his intent to get information to compromise our security. That makes him a traitor not a patriot or hero.

He could have lodged any number of formal inquires and complaints regarding the activity to which he was a witness. He chose the low road...

Now he is dealing with the consequences just like a big boy. Suck it up Brad.