reply to post by Shamatt
Because all you are doing is perpetuating the ignorance and the hate, misleading and misinforming.
The sad thing is, I'm not. The even sadder thing is, I enlightened you to the actual truth of the matter, and it's too ugly for you to believe it.
I recommended a book for you to read. READ it, and stop making assumptions before you have all the information.
Did the Muslim lady I helped carry her babies pram off the tram yesterday want to kill me? No - she smiled at me and thanked me. Did the Muslim family
eating at the table next to me in the shopping center at lunch time today want to kill me? No, they are happy living side by side with me and with all
the other cultures and races which make up this wonderful city in which I live.
I can see that you're a very sentimental guy. I am as well. I agree that there exist good Muslims. My sister's good friend Shazmin is a Muslim and she
and I are on very friendly terms; but Shazmin is simply your average westernized Muslim. She knows as little of Al Ghazali as your average Christian
knows something of Thomas Aquinas.
The situation I described, firstly, is the reality in the Muslim world - in Dar Al Islam (the abode of Islam). The paradigm there verses here is quite
different. Secondly, I am simply describing to you the metaphysics and theology of Sunni Islam. How can you not understand that? Or be skeptical of
it? It's their theology. Just because I'm western does not discount my testimony of their theology; It's completely different from our own - from both
Jewish and Christian theology, and the metaphysics which underpins western civilization.
Just as there are 'Christians' who burn down Mosques and Sikh Temples in the US
This is reductio ad absurdum; The event of a Christian committing terror occurs exponentially less than terror in the Islamic world. What you fail or
refuse to comprehend is that the behavior of Muslims is the extension of their own metaphysical and theological belief system. Hanbal, Ash'ari, Al
Ghazali, Ibn Arabi, etc This is their teachings; these are the theologians which dominate the thinking of mainstream Sunni Islam.
If you don't get this, or don't accept this, you have a screw loose.
And it is true that there are more moderate Muslims who want to live in harmony with the world than there are fanatics.
Is that why the entire Muslim world is aflame in anger over a stupid video? As for moderate Muslims - they exist. And you know what else? They reject
the metaphysics and theology of the most prominent Islamic thinkers; or, they are just too ignorant of their own religion to bother worrying whether
they are out of step with the umma. But again, you are speaking as a westerner about Muslims you know living in the western world. Go to Egypt - and
the shpeel you just said to the OP, go up to an educated Muslim, or, conversely, your average Muslim, and try saying that. There's a statistical
likelihood against your favor that you would be spit upon. It's disgusting, but again, this is because you have a completely different metaphysics
than they do.
What is God to you? To the Islamic thinkers of eminence - God is pure will. To ascribe to him any other attribute - for instance, reason - is to
subject him to a contingency - to acting reasonable. Ash'arites (proponents of the philosophy of Allah as pure power) objected to this claim of the
Mu'tazalites (this is the brand of Islam - very unpopular in the Muslim world - which is harmonious with
)that it limited Allah by bounding him to some course of action. This is inconceivable to them. God cannot be bound; he is
TRANSCENDENT - which means he transcends even reason: he is pure Will. And the Quran, as a form of revelation, As well transcends the boundaries of
reason. Thus, in order to enter into Allah's reality of becoming pure will, a Muslim must live in accord with jurisprudential judgements derived from
the revealed word - the Quran - as opposed to conscience (which relies on mans faculties of reason)
Spreading untruths, relaying something you read in a book - these are not the acts of the enlightened. Not at all. It makes you a part of the
This is insulting. You're basically saying I can't say anything of merit because it isn't "positive". Unless it presents Islam in a positive light, it
is unacceptable. So what am I to make of Islams belief system? And how should one disregard the metaphysical and theological system of the mainstream
of Sunni Islam, which so differs from our own conceptions of God, as reason - logos?? To us, to both Christian and Jewish theologians, God means to do
only good for his creatures (reference the episode where Abraham questions Gods justice in Sodom - referring to Gods allowance to man's autonomy of
will to question him, to probe him, and to come into sympathy with him through their own faculty of reason). Islam worships God as the Absolute - and
this Absolute by virtue of his revealed will in the Quran can only be encountered through abidance to the Shari'a.
You my friend are simply immature if you can't accept what I'm saying or refuse to "read a book" (how else can you educate yourself?) because the book
in question dampens your sentimentality.
edit on 14-9-2012 by dontreally because: (no reason given)