a motion introduced to place a ban on cigarette sales to anyone born after the year 2000?

I am sorry that I can't remember the study and am no in the mood to Google, but I know there was a study done on smokers and non smokers life expectancy....In a nutshell smokers do have more health problems, but die years sooner than non-smokers. Non smokers though stay healthy longer end up with other ailments such as Alzheimer's , dementia, and just not being able to care for themselves. So the argument of the cost on society kinda goes both ways...I also need to point out this study was done like over 10 years ago so perhaps the findings have changed....I smoke, and wish to God I didn't I have quit for months and months more than 3 times and somehow always go back to it. I wish when I was a kid and started smoking they would have been more strict, instead you could be 14 and say hey I need a pack of smokes for my mom, and the stores would be like oh OK.

Originally posted by DerekJR321
Look, the bottom line is this. The country that is trying to impose this ban, I guess, can do it. I don't know their laws or how people handle things over there. I don't think its a good idea. When a government makes things illegal, all it means is the price goes up, violence increases, and a huge underground market appears.

In respect to cigarette smoke, and people saying it should be banned because it is so bad for you. I certainly don't disagree that the smoke is harmful. Of course it is. I smoke, and I tell my son all the time "never smoke because it is a habit and costs a fortune". With that being said, where is the funding to help the addicted? I see billions funneled into advertising campaigns about how bad smoking is. I see more corporate sponsored drugs appear on the market that are supposed to help you quit. But none of these programs address the addiction issue. However, disgusting that is another topic. Sorry.. don't mean to get off track.

The only way I believe you can fairly impose a ban on cigarettes, is if you ban other harmful things as well. Alcohol for example.

Alcohol: In 2005, alcohol was responsible for over 100,000 deaths in America (25,000 of those being related to drunk driving accidents). Compare that to Aids deaths (18,000).

www.alcoholpolicymd.com

Twenty-five to forty percent of all patients in U.S. general hospital beds (not in maternity or intensive care) are being treated for complications of alcohol-related problems.

Annual health care expenditures for alcohol-related problems amount to $22.5 billion. The total cost of alcohol problems is $175.9 billion a year (compared to $114.2 billion for other drug problems and $137 billion for smoking).

Alcohol use by underage drinkers results in $3.7 billion a year in medical care costs due to traffic crashes, violent crime, suicide attempts and other related consequences. The total annual cost of alcohol use by underage youth is $52.8 billion.

No one is trying to ban cigarettes from addicts, they are trying to ban it for future generations so people don't have the option to harm themselves for no reason. If it's an addiction and you can't stop and you don't make other breathe it no one can fault you. They've been legal all this time. However we shouldn't allow our younger generation to repeat our mistakes if we can avoid it.

reply to post by Agit8dChop

You say that, means you believe coc aine and heroin being removed from the ''allowed'' list is also taking away your freedoms, well ok then.. would you like your kids to live in a world where heroin and coc aine are freely available over the counter? if not, then why cigerettes? they cause as much harm as anything else? and worse yet the tobacco companies engineer it in a way so your hooked and addicted to it.

Ok... then why alcohol? I assume you want alcohol banned too right? After all it causes a lot of damage to people's health and people's property. Why do we think it's ok for alcohol to be sold over the counter? Because it doesn't allow low quality underground alcohol to be circulated and they don't sell to minors anyway. You have this false belief that if certain drugs are legalized then it's going to be so easy to get, but that's not true. Surveys show the majority of teens these days find it easier to acquire marijuana than alcohol.

Alcohol is also clearly several times more dangerous than other illegal drugs, like marijuana for example. And here you have the problem. Why do you think you or anyone else should have the ability to dictate what I can and cannot do with my body? Maybe I want to let loose some times and have a little fun with alcohol or any other drug. Yeah cigarettes don't really have any mind-altering benefits, but when you ban one thing you set a precedent for banning all other things like it. Now I think you can agree people have the right to have a little drink every now and then.

They also have the right to smoke a cigarette if they god damn want to. What I hate most about this society we live in is the amount of control freaks who think they some how have the right to control every tiny detail of the lives of other people. It just gets on my nerves like nothing else. Sticky beaks is what we call them in Australia. They have a tendency to stick their noses into everyone else's business and they somehow justify it with the delusional logic that they are obviously more wise and know what is best for us. It makes me sick.

reply to post by Agit8dChop


Do you even know what you're typing here? If these kids were smoking, either the cigarettes were stolen, or purchased with a 3rd party (which equates essentially to a form or black market activity). I dont smoke, but you are absolutely blinded by your hatred for smoking and smokers.

I am 100% for people stopping smoking, but I will never approve of laws banning people from smoking. Personally I have never had a problem with stopping smoking, cigarettes were just something I never truly enjoyed. However, I do understand what happens when things are prohibited, we have seen this cycle repeat itself far to many times to let it happen again. Do we think people will just stop smoking because its been banned? Sure it might cut down on the amount of people smoking, but people are still going to get their hands on it if they want it.

Anyways, I have a serious problem with denying people their right to do what they want. Stopping people from smoking around others, that is definitely a good idea, since second hand smoke kill's as well, but there is no way I would approve of them banning smoking altogether. I am even against banning narcotics like Methamphetamine, since the legal synthesis of the drug are 100x safer then the kitchen chemists, and while I personally don't like giving such a powerful substance to pharmaceutical company's, it would be much safer. The Mexican Cartel kills thousands of people each year to secure their meth trade, and they kill even more with crappy synthesis of their product. Imagine what a lucrative trade illegal tobacco will become (it already is fairly big).

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
reply to post by TechVampyre

 

I hate when people say that, another freedom taken away. be reasonable...

Its just another life altering drug being removed from the world.

You say that, means you believe coc aine and heroin being removed from the ''allowed'' list is also taking away your freedoms, well ok then.. would you like your kids to live in a world where heroin and coc aine are freely available over the counter? if not, then why cigerettes? they cause as much harm as anything else? and worse yet the tobacco companies engineer it in a way so your hooked and addicted to it.

Cigs prey on the weak deliberately, and they kill people at the same time clogging up health centres.

Cigs are more dangerous than terrorists, in my mind!

First its cigs, then its what you eat, then its what cleaning supplies you use, then its what kind of car you can drive, Then its what you can legally say, ect,ect,ect,

Don't you get that this is a slippery slope? this will erode peoples freedoms. At what point did you become judge of what people can do with their lives? Just because you personally don't like something doesn't give you the right to stop someone else from doing it. Do you go to bars and knock drinks out of peoples hands? Hey they are slowly killing themselves with that too. How about cafeterias should we ban selling fatty foods to heavy people? They already did it with soda in new york.

The war on drugs has proved to be an ever losing war because the government doesn't actually want to win it. A study found that people actually did less drugs when they became legal to use and also that they had been able to kick the habit easier with drug programs.

This country wonders why its not functioning and why nobody can get a job. Here's a clue #1 misdemeanors effecting applications "wtf" i didn't get the job because of jaywalking? #2 credit score "wtf" does personal money handling have anything to do with work unless you work for the government. #3 minimum wage "wtf" how do you pay your bills when rent is $900 and gas is 4 dollars a gallon not including electricity and food and you make 8 dollars an hour.#4 driving record "wtf" does anyone have a prefect driving record? #5 psychological test "wtf" apparently to get a job you need to be emotionally detached from co-workers no matter how bad they treat you.

The standards by employers are way,way,way to high making even an overqualified applicant wary of them.

think about it Nobody is going to be prefect in every area of their life. Job applications, police records, medical history ect. With misdemeanors effecting applications doesn't that give police way to much power?
talk back to a cop and get arrested for disorderly conduct or resisting arrest and try to get a job lol.

reply to post by Agit8dChop


In that case, let's ban all big pharmaceutical chemicals! Let's take all the drugs out of the stores! Everything that changes your chemistry, take it away!

Everything we consume alters our chemistry in some way. If you want to cripple the economy, force withdrawal on over 40 million people, and oppress the freedom of our nation, then go ahead with that idea.

reply to post by Poopooplatter


Soooo, that's a no then?

Thought so.

Also, just so ya know, I ain't a smoker but unlike you, I have no desire to remove others freedoms to benefit me. Know why? Cause something I enjoy might be next.

So I'll ask a again, can you provide unbiased studies proving your argument instead of rambling off I don't like it, ban it!!!! Others in this thread and myself have shown you that the anti smoking lobby uses a boat load of propaganda to push this agenda.

Oh and someone else asked this as well...

Why are lung cancer rates going up when smoking has been at it's lowest level ever?

If you have no desire to bring facts, I have no desire to discuss this with you.

I hope you find your liberal utopia where you and others like you have the final say over what you guys can and can't do, freedom and liberty be damned. I showed you a link earlier of all those micro nations, maybe you could all create one for yourselves and leave the rest of us that just want to live our lives alone.

and next, we wont let them drink alcohol, or have coffee or eat fast food.

Nanny state crap wont work, or have we become that apathetic?

I love smoking my pipe tobacco, but I grow it myself quite often or something else grows it for me,

Perhaps all commercialized poisons should be taken down and let folks produce it themselves, then the dedicated may enjoy their substance of choice.

Thats freedom to me.

GM

reply to post by Gradius Maximus
They are already banning foods in New York City and limiting portion sizes.

The nanny state is here already... and thriving.

yaaaay!

I dont smoke cigarettes, but I unregularly smoke cigars. Maybe like 20 a year. What about ppl like us? It will just create an opportunity for people who to not shy away from violence to make a fortune based on a how ruthless and violent they are willing to be, just like it happend with alcohol.

So it is widely known that cigarettes are as addictive as heroin, if no moreso. The few "smoking cessation" aids available are created by pharmaceutical companies and they cost a fortune, not to mention that people then become addicted to them. Even if people want to quit, they will find that the government and/or the pharmaceutical companies are of very little help, if no help at all.

Yet, there are all of these movements to "punish" smokers, rather than put forth quitting programs that really work.

Then, there is alcohol. Alcohol that destroys families, begets violence, leads to deaths of others from car accidents and more. Yet, I suppose that will never be touched since prohibition was a big failure.

Whether or not you are for or against smoking, these issues should be considered.

reply to post by Agit8dChop


Any more rights you want to take away?

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha the war on drugs has been the biggest fail in history in the united states we spend 1500 a second just fighting pot heads lets just give the smugglers and gangsters somthing new to make a profit off of sorry mate i say we legalize all drugs if you dont want your kids doing them try this thing called being a #ing parent thats half the problum anyway

legalize marijuana !!!!

reply to post by JohnPhoenix

Studies have shown, once you take someone off of nicotine, they get dumber again.

How does that work? Do people just forget the things that they've learned once they stop smoking? That makes no sense at all.

reply to post by Agit8dChop


Right on, PROHIBITION!!!
Check out how that workrd for the US, I see more guns in Australias future!
I thought folks knew that history repeats itself.

reply to post by g146541


You have to feel sorry for those poor poor puritans. They are always just one more regulation away from utopia!

Tired of Control Freaks

reply to post by Agit8dChop


Yeah yippy imagine what other things they will tell you you can or cannot do. I always thought that as an adult we were given the opportunity to make our own desicions about what we do in life but I guess I was wrong and the government knows better what I want and need so I should just let them tell me what I do next. Boy glad those decisions are taken out of my hands.

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
reply to post by TechVampyre

 

I hate when people say that, another freedom taken away. be reasonable...

Its just another life altering drug being removed from the world.

You say that, means you believe coc aine and heroin being removed from the ''allowed'' list is also taking away your freedoms, well ok then.. would you like your kids to live in a world where heroin and coc aine are freely available over the counter? if not, then why cigerettes? they cause as much harm as anything else? and worse yet the tobacco companies engineer it in a way so your hooked and addicted to it.

Cigs prey on the weak deliberately, and they kill people at the same time clogging up health centres.

Cigs are more dangerous than terrorists, in my mind!

Smoker here, and I'm fine with it....
as long as
alcohol
goes with it!

reply to post by Poopooplatter

What about the car exhaust that's spewing out harmful chemicals? No second hand smoke from that? That whole argument is totally redundant.