Define Christianity as Hate - The New Homosexual Agenda

reply to post by Believer101


ok im getting bored now.i was talking about uk where government has already tried to put lgbt rights above religious freedom,forcing some priests and vicars to follow their concience and resign.
this is wrong.
on a personal note no pc thug will dictate to me what i can and cant think.my body may be in chains but my mind will always be free.

Originally posted by Jobeycool
Just more proof of Jesus telling the truth about the hypocrits and how they will destroy the church and hate Jesus and those who follow Him.Jesus said "If the world hates you, remember that it hated me first.

The Christians are not a people or a group of humans belonging to a humanmade organisation. The places are not what is holy but the people who are holy within. Practise love and preach love. The humanmade organisation that calls itself Christian is anything but holy and built up on the pyramid of ego and caught up in dogma and indoctrination and have been killing true Christians for ages. Pray for the goats to understand their misstake and become the loving creatures they should be.

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes

Originally posted by something wicked
*snip*
People have asked when Christ (upon whom Christianity is based) said that homosexuality is not a bad thing, and the response appears to be because he stated marriage is between a man and a woman. What exactly does that prove?*snip*

Seems obvious, that if marriage is stated, by Jesus Himself, as being between a man and a woman, that would preclude any other type. Added to the several statements in the Bible that sexual relations between the same gender are sinful, it's pretty clear. Now, you can choose to accept that or not, but that is the basis for the Christian stance on the issue. Yes, I am aware that some churches state they don't see this as an issue, but I would say they need to decide upon what they base their church. Their choice, but that isn't in agreement with the Bible.

Originally posted by something wickedBy the way, people seemed to be quoting Sodom in this thread. Sodomy is obviously derived from Sodom, but the term means anal sexual intercourse which is not limited to homosexuals and homosexuality is not specificly mentioned with regards to Sodom as far as I'm aware.

edit on 8-8-2012 by something wicked because: typo

The term we use is based on that city. Yes, it was about homosexuality. The men of Sodom wanted to "know" the angels that visited with Lot. This makes it very clear that homosexuality was indeed an issue. Maybe not the only one, but a major one, since it is the one that is highlighted.

Good questions, though. That story isn't one you see a lot in Sunday school lessons, or sermons.

Interesting responses, thanks. Let's face it though, at the time of Christ marriage was 'just' between a man and a woman, it was the common thing - not mentioning same sex marriage isn't the same as being against it and again, being against same sex marriage is not the same thing as being against homosexuality. Personally neither are of any interest to me whatsoever, people are what they are and I wouldn't judge anyone based on whatever their sexual preference - as long as it's legal.

Still not sure that the references to Sodom are explicitly around homosexuality though - I thought it was more around general debauchery that may have been both mixed and same sex and all sorts of other things that the Jewish religeous leaders were miffed about (possibly jealous? Who knows).

Originally posted by kimar
Please let me know when Jesus Christ, the central figure in CHRISTianity, said being gay is a sin. I could point out where Jesus teaches us to love everybody no matter what, to forgive others, and never to judge others, but I have a feeling you won't care.

If you truly follow Jesus, two men marrying each other would not bother you at all.

edit on 7-8-2012 by kimar because: (no reason given)

Here you are 1 Timothy 1:10

I am a Christian and I have many gay friends. I dont have to agree with what they do but yes I do love them. Jesus taught to hate the sin NOT the sinner.




Also I see this as being one of the first steps in making Christianity illegal. It is only a matter of time till the guy filming in the pastor preach is there to push a button as soon as something "They" do not agree with is said and the doors fly open and people start getting arrested. If you dont think that is plausible or possible think of the places on earth already where Christians must go underground because of what they believe. Awesome topic.

Originally posted by acmpnsfal

Originally posted by dirkpotters
reply to post by Lucid Lunacy

 

As an atheist (for me), it was a total waste of time to argue with the religious on the non-existence of God. I thought "Let them be fools, it is nothing to me". As an atheist, I had much better (I thought) things to think about and do. Fornication and Adultery were two of those things.

Ummmmm, see I feel like here you are trying to indirectly paint athiests are immoral.

I agree.

I don't believe for a second this person was ever Atheist and then became Christian. Its completely unrealistic.

Just how the bible itself was compiled - - and declared "Truth" - - is enough to make any Atheist laugh.

I do believe an Atheist can develop Spiritual leanings and incorporate the teachings of Jesus.

But never a bible believing Christian.

Originally posted by kimar
Please let me know when Jesus Christ, the central figure in CHRISTianity, said being gay is a sin. I could point out where Jesus teaches us to love everybody no matter what, to forgive others, and never to judge others, but I have a feeling you won't care.

If you truly follow Jesus, two men marrying each other would not bother you at all.

edit on 7-8-2012 by kimar because: (no reason given)

Kimar,
Is it safe to assume that you have not read the bible nor understand who Jesus was?
Remember the old testament? You know that God fellow? 10 commandments and all that? Well, Jesus you see, is that same dude. Case in point, "I and my Father are one". Or, "If you have seen me, you have seen the Father" etc etc etc.
So then, may I submit the following for your viewing pleasure, Leviticus 20:13, "If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them".
Now, out of fairness, it is understood that since Jesus we are no longer under the old testament law, Paul (writer of most of the new testament) has this to say however in 1st Corinthians 6: 9-11, "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God."

Obviously, Jesus isn't just "ok" with homosexuality, just as He is not "ok" with any sin. But, homosexuality is labeled a sin by both the old and new testament.

I think it's cool and all that you seem to like Jesus, but perhaps you may want to dig a little deeper and really know Him......

Originally posted by mr3dboot

Originally posted by kimar
Please let me know when Jesus Christ, the central figure in CHRISTianity, said being gay is a sin. I could point out where Jesus teaches us to love everybody no matter what, to forgive others, and never to judge others, but I have a feeling you won't care.

If you truly follow Jesus, two men marrying each other would not bother you at all.

edit on 7-8-2012 by kimar because: (no reason given)

Kimar,
Is it safe to assume that you have not read the bible nor understand who Jesus was?
Remember the old testament? You know that God fellow? 10 commandments and all that? Well, Jesus you see, is that same dude. Case in point, "I and my Father are one". Or, "If you have seen me, you have seen the Father" etc etc etc.
So then, may I submit the following for your viewing pleasure, Leviticus 20:13, "If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them".
Now, out of fairness, it is understood that since Jesus we are no longer under the old testament law, Paul (writer of most of the new testament) has this to say however in 1st Corinthians 6: 9-11, "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God."

Obviously, Jesus isn't just "ok" with homosexuality, just as He is not "ok" with any sin. But, homosexuality is labeled a sin by both the old and new testament.

I think it's cool and all that you seem to like Jesus, but perhaps you may want to dig a little deeper and really know Him......

Didn't people JUST get through arguing in another thread about eating rabbits and wearing polyester that the old testament rules apply to Jews not Christians? Now you are quoting the old testament as Christian doctrine.... call me confused.

the citizens of sodom and gomorrah didnt care about offending the lord,and god bitch slapped them all to hell.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


Oh, this is the point that takes the cake.

Christians do have a sort of compulsion to talk to everyone about sin and what it does to you. It may be frustrating, for the sinner, but its not something that should be lightly turned off. Got to keep in mind, no matter how much you disagree with it, if by chance you were wrong, and they didn't tell you, what would it say about them?

If you get the chance, read the book of Job (OMG! a Bible book!) It gives a clear picture of how much a failure it is to attempt to deal with people's sins--real or imagined. This is a book where the it should have been subtitled: "With friends like this, who needs enemies?".

But there's verses that are more direct:

Galatians 6:1-5

1 My friends,a if anyone is detected in a transgression, you who have received the Spirit should restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness. Take care that you yourselves are not tempted. 2 Bear one another's burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ. 3 For if those who are nothing think they are something, they deceive themselves. 4 All must test their own work; then that work, rather than their neighbor's work, will become a cause for pride. 5 For all must carry their own loads.

Is there a trend in the "salvation crusades" to not address folks with gentleness? I don't see as much of "bearing each other's burdens" as there should be. If homosexuality is a sin (which I do believe), then why is the attitude not more: "I'll help you, if you let me" instead of "you're going to hell!" Hell's the end outcome for most everything, it seems. But at the same time, if you don't want "help", then that's probably just as annoying.


(There's a few more scriptures like this, but I've not go the time to look it up right now.)

Originally posted by erictcartman
reply to post by Believer101

 

ok im getting bored now.i was talking about uk where government has already tried to put lgbt rights above religious freedom,forcing some priests and vicars to follow their concience and resign.
this is wrong.
on a personal note no pc thug will dictate to me what i can and cant think.my body may be in chains but my mind will always be free.

We aren't talking about the UK here. We're talking about here in the US how Christians are complaining saying the "gay agenda" is out to get them when that isn't true at all. You're getting off topic, bud.

reply to post by Varemia


Actually, most of the contradictions are from a lack of understanding of some of the simplest things.

I've seen some places, in the Bible, that when they went South to Jerusalem, in the text, they state they went Up to Jerusalem. (OMG, wrong direction!) Not really wrong. Jerusalem was up on a hill, and these folks went to worship there, therefore you go up to Jerusalem.

Or how about Christ's leaving Jericho in one text, and entering Jericho in another, with apparently the same miracle happening? Jericho was 2 side-by-side cities, by the time of that text, that they gave the same name to, whose road lead to Jerusalem (where Christ was going). You could literally, on the road to Jerusalem, go out of that city, then right into that city. I mean, I grew up in Sioux City (actually 4 cities that grew into each other, so I could leave one city, go through farmland, go into the other), go across the river to either South Sioux City or North Sioux City. Technically 6 towns, but only shows on maps as 3.

Then there's the 4 corners of the world. (OMG! We're back to the world is flat!) Do you still look at a map? Have you ever used a compass? You are using 4 corners geography, when you use either.

See, many of the contradictions are on this level, where people are intentionally looking for contradictory bits and pieces.

Some of the others are along the lines of: what did Christ say vs. what did Paul say? See, this is a proof-texting issue. Let's not even bother with the Bible for a moment, let's go to just simple conversation I've already had in this thread.

I was consistently making a point, earlier, that giving Gays the legal right to marry wasn't going to end the unfair advantage that legal marriage brings. I stayed on that subject through a few rounds with someone earlier. At the end of it, they accused me of not wanting to let gays marry, and using my point as a deflection from this.

Now, considering, even in this post, I've let slip that, yes I believe that homosexuality is a sin! Looks like this allegation could stick!

And then, I've stated somewhere that I really don't care about this issue. That it's a non-issue to me. Still doesn't exclude the idea that I might be against gay marriage because, since it's a sin, it's a non-issue due to gays not having rights.

I know I've stated somewhere that gays getting the legal right is inevitable. As in, it's going to happen. This still doesn't chance that I could still want to restrict gay marriage.

Oh! And one more up my sleeve: crossing God's a good way to make sure that God is out to get us. I do see that becoming an issue.

Now, does ANY of this state my stance on gays getting married? HELL NO! I have stayed away from that one.

(Btw, it's merely this: Give them the damned right, and if God's got a problem with it, let Him take us out. He's not killed us for sacrificing babies on the altar of convenience (abortion), yet. No, it's not about wishing people to hell, but more that when we don't allow people to hit rock bottom, then we're protecting them from the change that is necessary to bring them to God. If this life is not the end goal, then let this life go, quit trying to save it so hard. But as long as it's merely a voting issue, I'm going to have to vote my conscience, which will delay this, a while. *sigh* a very thin line to walk, this. I'm not FOR gay marriage, but I don't see how giving them the right to marry is about me being FOR or AGAINST it.) And this isn't the full depth of my thoughts on this issue, at all, so don't assume that you could figure out my reaction to holes still left. And there are plenty of them, still.

In a lot of the Bible, we got: this verse contradicts that verse. Orly, what if they both just a part of the whole conclusion? When looking at me, along the path to my conclusion, it's easy to see how many could assume that I'd not be for allowing Gays the right to marry. Why is it that we assume that God is more simple than we are? What kind of God would be worth following that I could run mental circles around? I'm not talking about coming to a different conclusion from God, I'm talking about God being simple-minded or not.

(Btw, the whole marriage issue, Biblically, when looking at all the verses on marriage, paints a much more detailed picture of what is going on, and is about as complex as my stance on gay marriage. Picking 1 verse out over another, whether as a believer or non-believer is kind of silly.)


Page 7. *sigh*

reply to post by sensible1


For those who didn't get this the first time. This is a case of special interest groups with highly paid lobbyists trying to jam a specific agenda down the throats of the American public. It also seems odd that anyone who stands up for common sense and family values gets condemmed for saying so.

I gues the next step is to have bank robbers and car thieves get on the band wagon in order to make their peticular line of work accepted by the American public.

Marriage is not a human rights issue, but the gay community sure tries to make it so. Civil unions give them the same benefits as marriage.

Originally posted by lme7898354

Marriage is not a human rights issue, but the gay community sure tries to make it so. Civil unions give them the same benefits as marriage.

LEGAL Marriage is a civil rights issue.

Civil Union creates Separate but Equal. Which is never Equal.

What your personal belief is - - is not relevant.

Originally posted by lme7898354
For those who didn't get this the first time. This is a case of special interest groups with highly paid lobbyists trying to jam a specific agenda down the throats of the American public.

You mean like how the religious folk shove their specific agenda about homosexuality being akin to having sex with kids/animals on a daily basis?

I gues the next step is to have bank robbers and car thieves get on the band wagon in order to make their peticular line of work accepted by the American public.

Oh yes, because marrying the one you love is akin to robbing banks and stealing cars.

Marriage is not a human rights issue, but the gay community sure tries to make it so. Civil unions give them the same benefits as marriage.

But why should we be required to have civil unions? Why can't we have marriages like everyone else? Religious fold do not own the word marriage.

Originally posted by Believer101

Originally posted by tellingthetruthfirst
reply to post by Wongbeedman

 

What about free will to have the choice to choose what to believe?

You're allowed to choose what to believe, but when your beliefs start making you infringe on the rights of others, that's when we have a problem. Believe what you want, that's fine, but don't force others to believe in your choices. Don't force others to be discriminated against by treating them like second class citizens because you don't think they should be allowed to marry.

Originally posted by sensible1
There is an active agenda, (Anderson Cooper off CNN being the main activist) to define Christianity as Hate speech and actually legislate the pulpit in America. Anderson is spending big money to march covert filming crews into churches across America an take film of any sermons about the biblical view of homosexuality as sin. He has gone to the airwaves asking people to act as volunteers to go into churches and send video of any preacher that dares to preach Jesus's point of view on marriage as being between one man and one woman. The attack on Chik Fil-A is a proxy attack on Jesus and the church as well.. The anti-Christian (anti- Christ) spirit of thinking is that "Nobody can tell me I'm wrong.." so I Christ must be wrong... so the church is being attacked. Look.. God is love. He doesn't hate anyone. Though my belief is that homosexuality in sinful, so are a lot of things. We as Christians can't force anyone to believe as we do, and Jesus never did that either. He just stands at the door and knocks.. All have the option to believe as they will... My belief doesn't hinder any one else's. The whole marriage rights debacle is SO SIMPLE to solve!!! Most people aer just asking the wrong question..

LEGAL rights will NEVER line up with God's will. Christians shouldn't try to pretend that they ever will... homosexuals can't tell Christians how to interpret the Bible, and Christians can't force homosexuals to believe the Bible either.. People have their own choice.

God doesn't have to get a vote from anyone to tell him what His preferences should be.. He is not waiting for "likes" on facebook.. You are either with Him or against him... But we as Chrsitians dont Hate anyone. How can we HATE what our MASTER came to forgive and lay down his life for? It would be sacrilege (I think I spelled that right..) Jesus died for the very sins of man.. I am just as guilty of that sacrifice as anyone I could ever accuse. I have made so many mistakes (as we all have) that I can't point the finger at anyone. I dont hate any one of my beautiful brothers and sisters , of any belief system. I want to display the love of Christ and use that to compel others to accept Him. But if they don't, I still Love them.. Please do not try to define Christ as hate. Its not true. He died for us.. If you don't agree with him lets at least have respect for His sacrifice..

BTW.. I am not GOP or DEM, and don't have a choice for Pres yet...

edit on 7-8-2012 by sensible1 because: clarification

I am quite disappointed to read so many of these kind of anti gay articles here.

#1 there is NOT an "Agenda" against Christianity from Gays.

I will point out something, however. Christianity as an organized religion is ridiculous. There, I said it. If you want to talk about "Christ Consciousness" then fine, but to literally believe in a dogma prescribed by a bunch of men over 2000 or so years ago is ridiculous.

RELIGION in general is a form of mind control. It is an easy way to control the masses. It doesn't have anything really to do with spirituality and unfortuantely Religion has been a convenient means to start wars and pograms against various enemies.

I think people are slowly waking up, at least I hope they are.

I believe that "Christ Consciousness" or whatever you would like to call enlightenment etc.. is a good thing, but following the literal tenets of a RELIGION isn't going to get you there, in fact, I would argue it would slow your path to becoming enlightened.

When you start preaching that one group of humans is less than you, then you are NOT exhibiting "Christ Consciousness", you are exhibitng a form of fear and hate. You can NEVER state that you are for "Liberty"if you then turn around and deny liberty to another group of people because they are different than you. That is not how that works, EVER.

So called "Christians' who claim they are somehow the 'victims" in this latest drama are ridiculous. This is just another made up issue to stir folks into a frenzied distraction.

I don't know of any Christian here in the US that was ever murdered for being a Christian. But i DO know of several Gay people who were murdered for being gay. So there you have it!

Peace

reply to post by Believer101


the point i keep trying in vain to put across is first of all i live in uk,where the lgbt agenda has already managed to put the christian religions in an untenable position regarding church law vs the idiots running the country.
its just a matter of time before the lgbt mafia manage to do the same in the US, unless christians unite to prevent this travesty before its to late
so not off topic at all.
p.s.dont call me buddy friend.

Originally posted by erictcartman
reply to post by Believer101

 

the point i keep trying in vain to put across is first of all i live in uk,where the lgbt agenda has already managed to put the christian religions in an untenable position regarding church law vs the idiots running the country.
its just a matter of time before the lgbt mafia manage to do the same in the US, unless christians unite to prevent this travesty before its to late
so not off topic at all.
p.s.dont call me buddy friend.

So finally not treating others like second class citizens by allowing them to marry who they want is a travesty? Why is that, exactly? Why is allowing a group of people to marry who they love a travesty? How are we a "mafia", exactly? Last time I checked, mafias were groups of people who went around killing others. Name one time where someone of the LGBTQ community killed someone for not allowing them to marry. Please, I ask you to do this for me.

Originally posted by erictcartman
reply to post by Believer101

 

the point i keep trying in vain to put across is first of all i live in uk,where the lgbt agenda has already managed to put the christian religions in an untenable position regarding church law vs the idiots running the country.
its just a matter of time before the lgbt mafia manage to do the same in the US, unless christians unite to prevent this travesty before its to late
so not off topic at all.
p.s.dont call me buddy friend.

Do you think that all other religions should also influence law then? That seems to be what you're saying, unless you are saying that your specific church should have control of the country.

reply to post by Believer101


Thought you could stump me with this?

Deuteronomy 21:18-21

Fulfilled at the cross, we're under grace now, not the law. The law couldn't be kept so a new covenant had to be made. Now we're under Christ's new covenant commandments. Where does homosexuality fit in his commandments? Post new covenant the Council of Jerusalem established that we cannot eat food or drink offered to idols, comsume blood, consume meat with blood in it and abstain from sexual immorality. Homosexuality is classified as a sexual immorality, no different than adultery, masturbation or promiscuous pre-marital sex.

Have you gouged out your eye for finding someone attractive?

Nope, not going to either. You took Matthew 5:29 out of context. He was teaching not to be hypocrits like the pharisees but the moral of the story was to get rid of the things that would lead you to commit a sin. Matthew 5 he was teaching that thought is the parent of action. For instance, you have a masturbation problem and looking at pornography triggers your desire to masturbate, so you would get rid of what would bring those desires on you. You know you have a problem masturbating, so why think of going to see images that would trigger it?

Same for Matthew 5:30, picking one or two verses to make a point when it comes to the scriptures doesn't really work. Context is usually established at the beginning of a chapter but may even precede that chapter since scriptures were originally written in unbroken scroll form.

Matthew 5:42, Yes i do allow people who ask of me to borrow whatever they ask, the only way i would refuse a request is if it will lead them to commit a sin or do something that would harm themselves, like buy drugs or weapons to murder someone with, i will not be a party to such activities that lead to loss of life and destruction of body.

We're required to make righteous judgements.